Shooter: Plenty of candidates for Gophers job; decision on Pitino was made 10 days ago; Pitino could interview for New Mexico and South Florida

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berniebierman said:
I can't believe all the Pitino-apologists in this state. This state has never produced the high level talent that we have seen come out this state in recent years, and Pitino has missed out on nearly all of them! I don't care if Duke or North Carolina are recruiting them - the home state team should get our best players. Kevin McHale and Randy Breuer went to Minnesota back in the day because Dutcher always was able to get the best Minnesota players - there was no question he would get them. The top players are not going to the U because they know Pitino is not going to lead them to a high finish in the Big Ten or the NCAAs. and that will hurt their pro prospects. Simple.
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McHale and Breuer were in a totally different age!

No AAU. No Summer League. No internet.

A lot easier to build a fence around the state back then.

Not that this is any excuse for Pitino. Just saying it would be harder for Dutcher in today's environment.
 

Full Speed Ahead said:
South Florida would be a good fit for Pitino, New Mexico wouldn't. NM has basically zero instate quality recruits. Whoever lands there is going to have to live on the road to do recruiting, and that's not little Richard's style.
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That reminds me of an exchange from a Seinfeld episode:

Newman: "She wasn't my type!"

Seinfeld: "You don't have a type, Newman!"

Honestly, I couldn't say what would be a "good fit" for Pitino right now. I could see him going somewhere and starting out all right but fading afterwards, just like here. I guess we'll see.
 

Otis said:
McHale and Breuer were in a totally different age!

No AAU. No Summer League. No internet.

A lot easier to build a fence around the state back then.

Not that this is any excuse for Pitino. Just saying it would be harder for Dutcher in today's environment.
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Amen! You can't compare the recruiting environment of 45 years ago to today. Another thing you didn't have much of back then was an established basketball prep scene where the schools play other elite preps from around the country and loads of scouts are at these tournaments. Many of these preps are primarily basketball academies.

I recall a story from Johnny Orr about when he attended a coaches' convention in the East Coast during the latter seventies. He said that the debate among the eastern coaches was whether the best high school player in the country was Gene Banks (Philly) or Albert King (Bernard King's brother from Long Island). Orr spoke up during this debate saying "I don't know which one of those guys is the second best player in the country but the best player in the country is a kid from Lansing, Michigan named Earvin Johnson." He said the eastern coaches had never heard of him. You can't even imagine that happening today!
 
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Staying home so family and friends can watch the games doesn't work anymore ... you can watch almost every game of every team with all the sports networks and streaming. Playing on a winning team that has an identity / culture that is a fit for you is most important ... Richard hasn't established either so getting anyone is kind of a crap shoot.
 

cjbfbp said:
Amen! You can't compare the recruiting environment of 45 years ago to today. Another thing you didn't have much of back then was an established basketball prep scene where the schools play other elite preps from around the country and loads of scouts are at these tournaments. Many of these preps are primarily basketball academies.

I recall a story from Johnny Orr about when he attended a coaches' convention in the East Coast during the latter seventies. He said that the debate among the eastern coaches was whether the best high school player in the country was Gene Banks (Philly) or Albert King (Bernard King's brother from Long Island). Orr spoke up during this debate saying "I don't know which one of those guys is the second best player in the country but the best player in the country is a kid from Lansing, Michigan named Earvin Johnson." He said the eastern coaches had never heard of him. You can't even imagine that happening today!
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In all honesty, you can't compare it to 15 years ago. It's grown even more national and transfers have changed the landscape.
 


manderson1984 said:
In all honesty, you can't compare it to 15 years ago. It's grown even more national and transfers have changed the landscape.
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Indeed, transfers are an enormous difference. This season may have crashed and burned for the Gophers but I believe it would have been worse if Pitino had recruited a couple of additional freshmen and maybe a junior college player instead of the 3 D1 transfers.

Another thing that has developed in the last 15 years is the dedicated cable conference sports stations. The Big Ten now has one full time station and gets a lot of games on FS1 as well (almost splits it with the Big East during basketball season). My cable package also has the SEC and PAC12 stations. The ACC also has one but I don't get it. These stations pump lots of funding to member schools and recruits' families can watch them from all over the country.
 

Otis said:
McHale and Breuer were in a totally different age!

No AAU. No Summer League. No internet.

A lot easier to build a fence around the state back then.

Not that this is any excuse for Pitino. Just saying it would be harder for Dutcher in today's environment.
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Dutcher got most of his best players from Michigan. The bottom line is, can you recruit well, or can't you?
 

Dutcher got players from everywhere!

Tucker was from Flint

Saunders was from Ohio

Mitchell and Holmes from Florida

Rautins from Canada

Mark Hall from Texas

Jimmie Williams was just a really good recruiter.
 

Otis said:
Dutcher got players from everywhere!

Tucker was from Flint

Saunders was from Ohio

Mitchell and Holmes from Florida

Rautins from Canada

Mark Hall from Texas

Jimmie Williams was just a really good recruiter.
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That's right: I always think of Mitchell coming from Michigan, but he was a Florida guy.
 




Otis said:
Dutcher got players from everywhere!

Tucker was from Flint

Saunders was from Ohio

Mitchell and Holmes from Florida

Rautins from Canada

Mark Hall from Texas

Jimmie Williams was just a really good recruiter.
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Saunders played his first two years under Musselman.
 

Otis said:
Dutcher got players from everywhere!

Tucker was from Flint

Saunders was from Ohio

Mitchell and Holmes from Florida

Rautins from Canada

Mark Hall from Texas

Jimmie Williams was just a really good recruiter.
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Mark Hall was from Sringfield Mass.
 

Ewert86PC said:
Look, all I need to know is that since 1970, the Gophers have had zero conference road wins twice, in 2016 and this season. Should we pin that on the players? No, because we had different teams both times, but the same head coach. That says he learned nothing here. We were supposed to give him learning time and he bailed on his class.
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cjbfbp said:
Amen! You can't compare the recruiting environment of 45 years ago to today. Another thing you didn't have much of back then was an established basketball prep scene where the schools play other elite preps from around the country and loads of scouts are at these tournaments. Many of these preps are primarily basketball academies.

I recall a story from Johnny Orr about when he attended a coaches' convention in the East Coast during the latter seventies. He said that the debate among the eastern coaches was whether the best high school player in the country was Gene Banks (Philly) or Albert King (Bernard King's brother from Long Island). Orr spoke up during this debate saying "I don't know which one of those guys is the second best player in the country but the best player in the country is a kid from Lansing, Michigan named Earvin Johnson." He said the eastern coaches had never heard of him. You can't even imagine that happening today!
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He also recruited Mitchell, Hall, Tucker, Rautins and Holmes. None of them were Minnesota guys. When you have good teams...and more than 8000 people showing up to Williams Arena the kids from Minnesota would have a much better chance to want to play for the Gophers. If you are battling to stay out of the bottom of the B1G with NW, Nebraska, Penn State and Rutgers every year and have a bad relationship with the high school and AAU coaches....yeah you are going to have a tough time keeping the top Minnesota kids at home.
 



ethomasp31 said:
He also recruited Mitchell, Hall, Tucker, Rautins and Holmes. None of them were Minnesota guys. When you have good teams...and more than 8000 people showing up to Williams Arena the kids from Minnesota would have a much better chance to want to play for the Gophers. If you are battling to stay out of the bottom of the B1G with NW, Nebraska, Penn State and Rutgers every year and have a bad relationship with the high school and AAU coaches....yeah you are going to have a tough time keeping the top Minnesota kids at home.
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Aaaaaand, there was some funny business going on. That's the reason Maturi vetoed Tubby's hiring of Jimmy Williams. Williams was Dutcher's ace recruiter, and let's be honest: it wasn't all on the up and up. In fact, I think of the stuff going on under Musselman and Dutcher to procure players worse than what Clem did to keep his players eligible. That's just me.

Williams was going to be Tubby's Dave Thorson: locally-connected person who knocks 'em dead on the recruiting trail.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Aaaaaand, there was some funny business going on. That's the reason Maturi vetoed Tubby's hiring of Jimmy Williams. Williams was Dutcher's ace recruiter, and let's be honest: it wasn't all on the up and up. In fact, I think of the stuff going on under Musselman and Dutcher to procure players worse than what Clem did to keep his players eligible. That's just me.

Williams was going to be Tubby's Dave Thorson: locally-connected person who knocks 'em dead on the recruiting trail.
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This is the first I'm hearing that Dutcher might have had any recruiting issues. I think Maturi's concerns with Williams revolved around the Musselman days.
 

60's Guy said:
Yet, just this season they somehow beat undefeated at the time Big Ten champ Michigan and #2 in country, #5 Iowa, #7 Ohio State, #23 Purdue, likely NCAA teams Michigan St and St Louis. How’s that happen?

And of course Coffey, Jordan Murphy, Oturu, Dupree, Joey King, Mo Walker, Nate Mason, Akeem Springs, Marcus Carr...they don’t count either? They didn’t get better?
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Come on. Every Big Ten coach can boast about a handful of players over an 8 year period. How about all those guys on one team? Or actually WINNING when you have them in here?

Pitino's tenure has been a failure. The Big Ten record bears that out. Not much defending can be done.
 

CoffeyTime said:
I just hope you keep this same energy after we hire a new coach. Year 1 we going to the elite 8?
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No, year one we come out, defend and rebound. We also take smart shots. That is all I am looking for right away. Not wins and losses. They will come if a culture is built and everyone buys in. Then comes winning, then comes better players.
 

Hates Monikers said:
This is the first I'm hearing that Dutcher might have had any recruiting issues. I think Maturi's concerns with Williams revolved around the Musselman days.
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I don't think there was ever anything specified or investigated, but the rumors were difficult to ignore. And then there was the prima facie evidence of Maturi vetoing Williams. And yes, you're right, much/most of it goes back to Musselman, but I personally find the rumors compelling. I mean, I've been the first to say that Minnesota can recruit better than we have in recent years, but the No. 1 class in the nation in 1978? Really?
 

Otis said:
McHale and Breuer were in a totally different age!

No AAU. No Summer League. No internet.
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No exactly true. Back in the day, the Augsburg Summer league in Si Melby Hall was THE place for the top college and high school players. They had a winner take all tournament at the end - every team got in. One year, we seriously out performed our talent level and found ourselves in the semifinals - against McHale, Flip, Dave Winey, and a few others Gophers from that era. They crush us - but I did get an up and under bucket where McHale literally jumper over me. I thought that I could have ruined his career (or at least eliminated his chance at a family) if I had not delayed until he cleared me to make the layup.
 

Bad Gopher said:
He embarrassed me as a fan by losing a home game by 31 and not winning a game on the road.

Are you an alumnus?
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Rutgers just got buried in national tv with a full compliment of their roster. It was one game. Wtf?

why is he still head coach? No offense, but I like tre. Gabe. Freeman has talent. Mashburn. There’s talent. Why start over. If you could leave as a player, why stay????
 

manderson1984 said:
TBF, besides the Curry knee issue, all of those things could’ve been foreseen in the part in bold. It’s not like they were impossible. Jarvis’s heart condition was known since he was younger, Amir was a top level recruit with an NBA frame, many coaches passed on Jelly because of Defensive issues. Lynch had some issues at Illinois State. Now those aren’t the reasons I think Pitino should be relieved either besides maybe Lynch. Also other teams have this stuff happen to and they figure it out and can be successful. Wisconsin lost their best perimeter scoring wing last year and won the conference for an example.
We do agree that holding Pitino accountable for not getting Suggs, Hurt, or Chet is ridiculous. That being said Pitino never developed a system here and never got his teams to defend at a high level. That’s why he’s gone.
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FYI. Lynch wasn’t convicted of anything.
 








One guy at the newspaper says he may not get fired. Another guy at the newspaper says he is already interviewing for his next job.
Meanwhile the AD has not announced a decision.
🤔
 

Maybe pitino will take the New Mexico job and then they will pay the buyout instead of us having to fire him?🧐
 

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