Shama: There should have been more capable and experienced defensive players in place to take over from last season’s seniors.

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BleedGopher

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per Shama:

Head coach P.J. Fleck insists the talent is present for a better defense in the future but experience is needed first. However, with the program in its fourth year under Fleck, there should have been more capable and experienced defensive players in place to take over from last season’s seniors.

Futility was so evident in last week’s embarrassing 35-7 loss to Iowa. For Gopher fans the game was an unwelcome reminder of recent history in the Minnesota-Iowa series. The Hawkeyes have won six straight games for the first time in the 114-year-old rivalry. In the battle for Floyd of Rosedale, the series is tied at 42-42-2. Iowa has not trailed in games against Minnesota since the fourth quarter in 2016.


Go Gophers!!
 




I'm so upset we didn't play Bennie Sapp Jr more last year instead of AW11.


Could you imagine what these forums would have said if PJ didn't play the players from the 2016 class, instead opting to go with HIS younger recruits.
 


A combination of the 2018 class largely failing us on defense combined with the 2016 class defenders largely not being able to play as fifth year seniors, was always going to set us up for failure this year.

Fleck knew it. He was hoping the season was going to be cancelled. Or he was hoping, somehow, 2019 and 2020 guys would step in. Nothing else would explain the lack of transfers to try to plug holes.

It hasn't happened. Maybe things will click for the younger guys later in the year.
 

Face The Facts said:
I'm so upset we didn't play Bennie Sapp Jr more last year instead of AW11.


Could you imagine what these forums would have said if PJ didn't play the players from the 2016 class, instead opting to go with HIS younger recruits.
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Nice try.

Winning vs. not at all winning = your logic fails.
 

upnorthkid said:
Knew we should've benched our better players last year and lost some more games to make sure our defense had more experience this year
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Yeah, because it's totally an zero-sum situation as you describe...:rolleyes:
 

Part of the issue is the slow start didn’t allow getting as many people on the field as they usually would

part of it too is not playing guys in blowouts (see it more this year but I’m not sure you want to bench inexperienced starters to give backups experience when the starters aren’t there yet).


other than Ibrahim and Bateman. I don’t fault any of the guys being in the end of the games this year. Even Morgan needs more experience in this offense
 



In fairness to the staff, on top of losing all the seniors they also lost 2 of the pieces they were counting on to be key contributors this season in Oliver (injury) and Teague (Covid Opt-Out). So an already difficult situation was compounded even more with those loses.

On top of that you are then faced with a messed up off-season that doesn't allow you to work with the new guys nearly as much as you typically would have.

The defense has actually played pretty well in the past two games. They played well enough to keep us in the game with Iowa if the offense does literally anything at all. The final score is lopsided but that was a 2 score game late into the third quarter. And they did it without St. Juste for the entire game and MSM for a big chunk of it.

There is no sugarcoating the way the D played in the first two games but I also don't think the future of this unit is as bleak as some may want to make it out to be.
 

MNVCGUY said:
In fairness to the staff, on top of losing all the seniors they also lost 2 of the pieces they were counting on to be key contributors this season in Oliver (injury) and Teague (Covid Opt-Out). So an already difficult situation was compounded even more with those loses.

On top of that you are then faced with a messed up off-season that doesn't allow you to work with the new guys nearly as much as you typically would have.

The defense has actually played pretty well in the past two games. They played well enough to keep us in the game with Iowa if the offense does literally anything at all. The final score is lopsided but that was a 2 score game late into the third quarter. And they did it without St. Juste for the entire game and MSM for a big chunk of it.

There is no sugarcoating the way the D played in the first two games but I also don't think the future of this unit is as bleak as some may want to make it out to be.
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I agree.

I'll add:
I think it would have been hard to justify playing a bunch of freshmen last year, taking time away from proven seniors in a year where you were contending for a CFP bid.
 





- No 2020 fall camp.

- Just an abbreviated camp during school with limited time.

OMG how is it these defensive players without a lot of experience aren't ready!?!!?!?

Screen_Shot_2018-10-25_at_11.02.15_AM.png
 



I think it's safe to say Shama reads Gopherhole.
 

The HC chooses the ACs and in MN's case the HC is in charge of recruiting.
PJ knows selling whether it is himself or the program is his greatest strength.
So it is all on Fleck this year as it should be..
If next year is different with a competent defense, offense and a respectful conference record that will also be on Fleck.
If none of that happens then the powers that be will have to make some decisions.
 


FullBanana said:
I don’t get why we didn’t sign a bunch of veteran free agents in the offseason.
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I was thinking maybe tank this season for better draft picks.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Yeah, because it's totally an zero-sum situation as you describe...:rolleyes:
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It is tongue in cheek, but if you look at the game logs, the guys who are starting for us this year did see time in some capacity. The issue is we played so many tight games early (our NC wins were by a total of 13 points) which really hurt their chance to see some snaps. During the midseason blowouts, they did see more time once we got big leads (which you can see reflected in the tackle logs in the games against Ill, Nebraska, Rutgers, and MD). Then it was tight games or getting pounded by WI the rest of the way. Us missing our NC schedule this year was devastating for that reason, and the same reason teams like LSU are getting wrecked defensively, as it's where you'd hope to have gotten these guys a bunch more snaps.
 

Plato said:
The HC chooses the ACs and in MN's case the HC is in charge of recruiting.
PJ knows selling whether it is himself or the program is his greatest strength.
So it is all on Fleck this year as it should be..
If next year is different with a competent defense, offense and a respectful conference record that will also be on Fleck.
If none of that happens then the powers that be will have to make some decisions.
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I’m shocked to hear you say that if the defense sucks for years eventually that will be a problem

I am glad you thought of that. I never even had it in my mind
 

Some guy said:
Part of the issue is the slow start didn’t allow getting as many people on the field as they usually would

part of it too is not playing guys in blowouts (see it more this year but I’m not sure you want to bench inexperienced starters to give backups experience when the starters aren’t there yet).


other than Ibrahim and Bateman. I don’t fault any of the guys being in the end of the games this year. Even Morgan needs more experience in this offense
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Good points
 

Some guy said:
I’m shocked to hear you say that if the defense sucks for years eventually that will be a problem

I am glad you thought of that. I never even had it in my mind
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Sarcasm and snark to be funny requires more skill.
 

Maybe I read a different article.

I thought Shama's point was fairly clear. Fleck is in his 4th year. The players he recruited 3 years ago should be ready to contribute.

Fleck is the one who talks about out-recruiting the graduating class - bringing in new players who are equal to or better than the ones who graduate, so that you do not have a big drop-off in talent when the Seniors graduate.

I am NOT calling for Fleck's head. But I am suggesting that, as the HC and leader of the program, the construction of the roster is his responsibility. the current team is displaying a flawed roster. and the results speak for themselves.
 

Plato said:
Sarcasm and snark to be funny requires more skill.
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If wasn’t sarcasm

I thought fleck would be our coach forever but when you said that if we don’t win any games for a decade we should think about other options... I am convinced you are correct
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Maybe I read a different article.

I thought Shama's point was fairly clear. Fleck is in his 4th year. The players he recruited 3 years ago should be ready to contribute.

Fleck is the one who talks about out-recruiting the graduating class - bringing in new players who are equal to or better than the ones who graduate, so that you do not have a big drop-off in talent when the Seniors graduate.

I am NOT calling for Fleck's head. But I am suggesting that, as the HC and leader of the program, the construction of the roster is his responsibility. the current team is displaying a flawed roster. and the results speak for themselves.
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For sure. This year is no question a disappointment
 

Check Michigan's and Penn States records. Everything is upside down this year.
 

I think this program is in a unique situation. It has been a bottom feeder for 5 decades with limited success sprinkled in. After last year many people (myself included) thought this program was in the top 5 teams in the BIG. Meaning year after year Minnesota will be worst 5th, best 1st. I'm making these numbers up just to prove a point, not to call anyone out or anything like that. I was wrong. My humility meter has changed.
I need to remember, michigan, wisconsin, state penn, osu, whyowa, have had decades to make programs successful with their systems and tradition (tradition is important for recruiting players and assistant coaches). Some coaches have changed but things have remained relatively consistent with these programs. Yes some have failed a little and changed and then had success soon again.

PJ is trying to create what those programs have had. They don't have much dropoff, but I think PJ is building that. I have patience.
Of course, if no improvement to end this year or next year, then not accept failure, but I want to give PJ a lot of rope to build a national name.
 
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MNVCGUY said:
on top of losing all the seniors they also lost 2 of the pieces they were counting on to be key contributors this season in Oliver (injury) and Teague (Covid Opt-Out). So an already difficult situation was compounded even more with those loses.
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You can add a player like Alex Reigelsperger, who was a promising recruit who had to quit football for medical reasons, to that list.
 

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