Maybe we all just need to calm down

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touchdownvikings

touchdownvikings

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Nights like the one that went down at Iowa happen. They happen to almost everyone. The ball just doesn't go down and you score 50. And you lose.

Then people say things like: No ball motion! Stop forcing up bad shots! No offensive philosophy! Etc.

But if the ball goes down? Love the ball motion! Great shot selection! Pitino's finally on the right track with all these shooters! These are not genuine evaluations. They are post hoc formulations constructed after the ball either went down or not.

But back to the main point. Sometimes the ball just doesn't go down. Look at Wisconsin's loss to New Mexico. Their starting guards went 7-30. Team shot 2-26 from 3. They scored 50. And they lost. Same as us. Same as happens to everyone when you shoot just that poorly. But never fear: eventually you get back on track. Wisconsin's guards went out and shot 13-28. And they beat Indiana. And their message boards rave about ball motion, shot selection, and so on. Same will occur for us.

In summary, calm yourselves.
 


You make a point. Most of who post here probably played basketball at some point in their life. I played in high school. We were pretty good as a team but lost a couple of times to teams we should have easily beat just because nothing we put up would go in. We played other games where everything went in. When the shots don't fall there is not much you can do other than to eliminate little mistakes. Traveling in the paint 8 times by your big man needs to be eliminated. That was hard to watch. Other than that Oturu had a great game but as a team every unforced turnover eliminates a scoring opportunity.
 
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Yeah the negativity gets too much at times on GH. We all want to win, and none of us are happy about the five losses already, but it's typically the same posters over and over again that claim they are Gopher fans, but always find ways to be pessimistic about everything. For example, last year... I'm guessing most of GH will remember it as a 2nd round NCAA tournament team. The negative nancies remember 9-11 in the Big Ten regular season. Those posters will always be like that, so I've learned to ignore them.
 

My High School team made it to the state tournament, so we were pretty good, but we did not lose on bad shooting nights while giving a poor effort on defense. We busted our asses on defense all the time until we were physically exhausted! Defense enabled us to score so many baskets off turnovers that when our coach called for us to run a set offense in the playoffs we had a hard time remembering how to because we scored in transition most of the time.

We also substituted in players when starters were playing poorly shooting wise. 3 minutes on the bench can get a scorer started when they go back in.

This is my biggest problem with the team. Williams and Ihnen are perimeter shooters who could give cold shooting starters a rest or replace them if they are hot.

If you don't play them, you won't know.

Last year we had a short bench because our Freshmen basically started or weren't ready. This year we have 2 4* rated freshmen who should get PT every night! Especially when the starters can't hit a lake from a boat.
 


This isn't an outlier game though we have had many games without decent shooting. The roster lacks guards and wings who can drive and get to the free throw line. Carr is ok at it. Doesn't appear to be a strength for Willis or Gabe. Maybe Greenlee, Williams, or Ihnen can but we don't know.
 

march madness said:
This isn't an outlier game though we have had many games without decent shooting. The roster lacks guards and wings who can drive and get to the free throw line. Carr is ok at it. Doesn't appear to be a strength for Willis or Gabe. Maybe Greenlee, Williams, or Ihnen can but we don't know.
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Lack of players who can score off the dribble is certainly a weak spot for us.
 

touchdownvikings said:
Nights like the one that went down at Iowa happen. They happen to almost everyone. The ball just doesn't go down and you score 50. And you lose.

Then people say things like: No ball motion! Stop forcing up bad shots! No offensive philosophy! Etc.

But if the ball goes down? Love the ball motion! Great shot selection! Pitino's finally on the right track with all these shooters! These are not genuine evaluations. They are post hoc formulations constructed after the ball either went down or not.

But back to the main point. Sometimes the ball just doesn't go down. Look at Wisconsin's loss to New Mexico. Their starting guards went 7-30. Team shot 2-26 from 3. They scored 50. And they lost. Same as us. Same as happens to everyone when you shoot just that poorly. But never fear: eventually you get back on track. Wisconsin's guards went out and shot 13-28. And they beat Indiana. And their message boards rave about ball motion, shot selection, and so on. Same will occur for us.

In summary, calm yourselves.
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The team got good looks. They just missed the shots. They also failed to hustle back and got burned in transition. On top of this there was an overall lethargy from the team.
This was the conference opener and this team failed to show up. That is a fact.
Will they show up against ohio? We will see.
However, so far, against quality opponents, we see more failure to show up than we see excellence. That is a trend and it is entirely on the coaching staff to fix.
 

touchdownvikings said:
Nights like the one that went down at Iowa happen. They happen to almost everyone. The ball just doesn't go down and you score 50. And you lose.

Then people say things like: No ball motion! Stop forcing up bad shots! No offensive philosophy! Etc.

But if the ball goes down? Love the ball motion! Great shot selection! Pitino's finally on the right track with all these shooters! These are not genuine evaluations. They are post hoc formulations constructed after the ball either went down or not.

But back to the main point. Sometimes the ball just doesn't go down. Look at Wisconsin's loss to New Mexico. Their starting guards went 7-30. Team shot 2-26 from 3. They scored 50. And they lost. Same as us. Same as happens to everyone when you shoot just that poorly. But never fear: eventually you get back on track. Wisconsin's guards went out and shot 13-28. And they beat Indiana. And their message boards rave about ball motion, shot selection, and so on. Same will occur for us.

In summary, calm yourselves.
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Great post. Poor shooting will always make a team look bad and great shooting will make a team look great. It was poor effort on defense, turnovers that stand out to me. One great coach told me along time ago to not accept in winning what you do not tolerate in losing. You must eliminate the things that lead to losing, turnovers and bad defense. At some point we are going to put the 5 best team defenders we have on the floor that are ball secure but make you earn everything you get. That can look ugly to a lot of folks but there is a beauty to it that is a acquired taste and that fans come to love because good basketball wins games. For those that would rather lose 80-75 than win 50-49 they are entitled to as the entertainment factor is high. But to me, playing sound, winning games is fine art.
 



builtbadgers said:
Great post. Poor shooting will always make a team look bad and great shooting will make a team look great. It was poor effort on defense, turnovers that stand out to me. One great coach told me along time ago to not accept in winning what you do not tolerate in losing. You must eliminate the things that lead to losing, turnovers and bad defense. At some point we are going to put the 5 best team defenders we have on the floor that are ball secure but make you earn everything you get. That can look ugly to a lot of folks but there is a beauty to it that is a acquired taste and that fans come to love because good basketball wins games. For those that would rather lose 80-75 than win 50-49 they are entitled to as the entertainment factor is high. But to me, playing sound, winning games is fine art.
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YUP!!
 

Not sure how many times this needs to be said but here we go again.

It's not about one game where the shots didn't fall.
 

builtbadgers said:
Great post. Poor shooting will always make a team look bad and great shooting will make a team look great. It was poor effort on defense, turnovers that stand out to me. One great coach told me along time ago to not accept in winning what you do not tolerate in losing. You must eliminate the things that lead to losing, turnovers and bad defense. At some point we are going to put the 5 best team defenders we have on the floor that are ball secure but make you earn everything you get. That can look ugly to a lot of folks but there is a beauty to it that is a acquired taste and that fans come to love because good basketball wins games. For those that would rather lose 80-75 than win 50-49 they are entitled to as the entertainment factor is high. But to me, playing sound, winning games is fine art.
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100% agree. They have to play better defense than that. They have to protect the ball- Oturu has to learn that he has to kick it out and trust his team mates to make shots when he is getting triple teamed. And...they have to be focused enough to make more shots.
 

scools12 said:
Not sure how many times this needs to be said but here we go again.

It's not about one game where the shots didn't fall.
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That remains to be determined for this particular team. They can make it a theme to play like that, or they can turn it around. There are 19 Big Ten games left. The team that always give me hope, and a team that did not have better personnel than this one is the Monson team with Arob, Grier, Hagan, Coleman and Lawson. They play defense, the played together and efficiently with what they had and went 11-7 in the process. No one would have predicted that. Most figured that it would be the squad that got Monson fired.
 



I don't think people need to calm down. This is seven years in, and we're throwing that roster our there? This is shaping up to be a disaster similar to 3(?) years ago. Time for a change, ala Monson's final year.
 

I am hoping that Pitino can turn around this season and make it work. I like him and trust that he has a lot more in him than we have seen. I don't want to start over and not sure the quality of candidate we would get if we did start over.

But that doesn't mean I can't look at this objectively. The shooting wasn't good, but even if you make 50% of your 3-pointers it still doesn't make up 20 points. And it isn't like we ran into a buzz saw of a team that couldn't miss, I think they shot like 40 some percent, good but not exceptional. But more than that it bothers me that our bench must be so outclassed that they can't even see the floor. Not a good sign.
 

WoodburyTim said:
I am hoping that Pitino can turn around this season and make it work. I like him and trust that he has a lot more in him than we have seen. I don't want to start over and not sure the quality of candidate we would get if we did start over.

But that doesn't mean I can't look at this objectively. The shooting wasn't good, but even if you make 50% of your 3-pointers it still doesn't make up 20 points. And it isn't like we ran into a buzz saw of a team that couldn't miss, I think they shot like 40 some percent, good but not exceptional. But more than that it bothers me that our bench must be so outclassed that they can't even see the floor. Not a good sign.
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I mean actually if they made 50% they would've made up 18-21 points. so yeah it does when you shoot that many. The joy of living and dying by the 3 when your team appears average at best shooting it
 

upnorthkid said:
I mean actually if they made 50% they would've made up 18-21 points. so yeah it does when you shoot that many. The joy of living and dying by the 3 when your team appears average at best shooting it
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Okay if we shot over 50% from 3 we would have made up the difference. So we shoot over 50% from 3 on a lot of 3 pointers and we will win some games. Simple road map for victory.
 


WoodburyTim said:
Okay if we shot over 50% from 3 we would have made up the difference. So we shoot over 50% from 3 on a lot of 3 pointers and we will win some games. Simple road map for victory.
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Was more just giving you shit man since it worked out for the other nights game. Think it’s not a great gameplan for success
 

Pitino's B10 record is awful and this year it will get much worse....He should have been fired years ago for his ineptitude.....There is no way he survives this year with 5-6 B10 wins and the buy-out being relatively small.
 

I'm plenty calm, actually. I get worked up when my team is competitive and the games mean something and there's MAJOR STRESS...you know, like the football season just was.
 

bga1 said:
That remains to be determined for this particular team. They can make it a theme to play like that, or they can turn it around. There are 19 Big Ten games left. The team that always give me hope, and a team that did not have better personnel than this one is the Monson team with Arob, Grier, Hagan, Coleman and Lawson. They play defense, the played together and efficiently with what they had and went 11-7 in the process. No one would have predicted that. Most figured that it would be the squad that got Monson fired.
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The negativity is not about just this particular team.. Its about multiple seasons and where it looks like this season might be headed.
 

scools12 said:
The negativity is not about just this particular team.. Its about multiple seasons and where it looks like this season might be headed.
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This team is awful and there are players on it that should not be getting big minutes at this level.....The number one reason Pitino should be fired is the B10 record....U can dismiss everything else....Tim Miles just got canned and he had a much better B10 win percentage.
 

scools12 said:
The negativity is not about just this particular team.. Its about multiple seasons and where it looks like this season might be headed.
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I get that. I am negative about most of the past 50 years-almost all of which I have been attending games. If the season goes the way it looks- he's gone. I hope it goes better- that would be a lot more fun! :)
 

touchdownvikings said:
Nights like the one that went down at Iowa happen. They happen to almost everyone. The ball just doesn't go down and you score 50. And you lose......

In summary, calm yourselves.
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there is this Shaka story four years ago,

https://www.google.com/amp/s/vcubas...aka-smart-is-a-really-really-good-leader/amp/

Burton read the Donovan quote, and then Smart began, and spoke with passion:
“We talk to our guys all the time about the difference between interest and commitment. When you’re interested in something, you do it when it’s convenient. When you’re committed to something, you do it all the time, even when you lost that feeling that you originally had when you you made the original commitment.
But the problem with today’s society, and especially in our basketball culture, is kids grow up learning to be conditionally bought in. In other words, ‘if things are going well for me then I will listen and I will follow the plan and I will do what you ask me to do coach. If things are going well for me then I’m going to have a good attitude; I’m going to be coachable. But if they’re not, I’m going to get off the page and I’m going to do what I want. It’s okay for me to violate team rules; it’s okay for me to not be coachable; it’s okay for me to take a bad attitude; it’s okay for me not to be a good teammate.’
And the reality is that it’s a disease that impacts the vast majority of teams. What most fans don’t realize is this is the number one thing that we fight as coaches every day. It’s a daily battle. People think it’s about pick and roll and dunking the ball and making jumpers. If our guys have a clear head for being committed to what goes into winning, then we’re going to win most of the time, unless we play a team that’s just that much better than us.
But when you see us struggle it’s not because we didn’t work on free throw shooting or work on our three point shot. It’s because maybe a guy got off the page, or maybe a couple guys did, and I try to tell our staff all the time it’s not about the scouting report. It’s not about how we’re going to guard pick and roll. It’s about ‘does this guy have a clear mind?’ If he has a clear mind like Mike Gilmore did last game, then he can score 10 points in 14 minutes. If he doesn’t have a clear mind then he shoots the ball off the side of the backboard. Its’ the same guy.”
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march madness said:
This isn't an outlier game though we have had many games without decent shooting. The roster lacks guards and wings who can drive and get to the free throw line. Carr is ok at it. Doesn't appear to be a strength for Willis or Gabe. Maybe Greenlee, Williams, or Ihnen can but we don't know.
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I doubt any of Greenlee, Williams, or Ihnen will score off the dribble at this point, Greenlee never will much, that isn't his game but he provides other benefits, in time I would think that could be one of Ihnen's strengths, WIlliams is probably more athletic than Willis or Kalschuer but will never be like Coffey. Carr is the best and that is why I would like to see him play off ball. I just think that a PG that hogs the ball and takes a lot of shots even when they make a high percentage takes everyone else out of the game, you've always got people standing around and that will take it's toll on both offense and defense eventually.
 

I expect shooting to be a lot better against Ohio State, they seem to have a confidence at home that they just don't have away, I'm thinking it is going to be a good game.
 


touchdownvikings said:
Nights like the one that went down at Iowa happen. They happen to almost everyone. The ball just doesn't go down and you score 50. And you lose.

Then people say things like: No ball motion! Stop forcing up bad shots! No offensive philosophy! Etc.

But if the ball goes down? Love the ball motion! Great shot selection! Pitino's finally on the right track with all these shooters! These are not genuine evaluations. They are post hoc formulations constructed after the ball either went down or not.

But back to the main point. Sometimes the ball just doesn't go down. Look at Wisconsin's loss to New Mexico. Their starting guards went 7-30. Team shot 2-26 from 3. They scored 50. And they lost. Same as us. Same as happens to everyone when you shoot just that poorly. But never fear: eventually you get back on track. Wisconsin's guards went out and shot 13-28. And they beat Indiana. And their message boards rave about ball motion, shot selection, and so on. Same will occur for us.

In summary, calm yourselves.
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In summary, you are going to see multiple, multiple, multiple games like that this year.

I'm personally as calm as can be. When you suck, you suck. Why would anyone not be calm? Are there expectations or something?

The barn is going to be extremely calm this year. I'm just trying to stay awake for this year.
 
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To put a finer point on things: most aspects of basketball do not matter other than scoring. Not rebounds, defense, ball motion, etc. First you must score about 70 points, then other factors might matter.

I posted this last year:

IZc5VDC.png


This was a distribution of the points of the winning team in B1G play part-way through the season. The interquartile range was 69-80. If a team scores fewer than 69 points, they are trying to win with a point total accounting for fewer than one-in-four victories.

Let's take last night's B1G games as examples. Wisconsin ran an experiment: "let's see if I can win scoring 65 points." Result: loss. Michigan ran a similar experiment: "let's see if I can win scoring 62 points." Result: loss. This experiment rarely works for anyone - it doesn't matter who you are. Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota. All the same. Score 70+. Then the rest matters.

And the players know it. When you have just a terrible shooting night - which happens - they know the outcome. Because defense and rebounding and ball motion and shot selection and blah, blah, blah just don't matter. So they just don't pay attention to those aspects of the game. Because they are basically artificial things for people on message boards to squawk about and only marginally affect games.
 

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