Juwan Howard says Michigan may put the banners back up from 1992 & 1993 FFs

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BleedGopher

BleedGopher

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per ESPN:

Juwan Howard expects his return to the Michigan Wolverines as their new head coach will continue to mend ties between the basketball program and the members of its iconic Fab Five teams of the early 1990s.

A little more than a quarter-century after he left the Ann Arbor campus for what turned out to be a 19-year career in the NBA, Howard was introduced as the program's new coach Thursday.

He was part of the unprecedented Fab Five recruiting class that led Michigan to the national championship game as freshmen and sophomores in 1992 and 1993. That group has had an awkward relationship with the school since NCAA sanctions forced Michigan to vacate victories from those seasons, among others.

The university removed the 1992 and 1993 Final Four banners from Crisler Arena. Howard said a discussion with university leaders about the return of the banners -- or finding some other way to recognize those teams -- is back on the table.

"We worked extremely hard. We sacrificed a lot, went through a ton of adversity, earned every minute of it," Howard said when asked about the banners approximately 20 minutes into his first public appearance after accepting the job. "That is something on the table that we as [an athletic department staff] will definitely revisit. We're not making any promises. That's all I can say at this moment."

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...857272/howard-wants-unite-wolverines-fab-five

Go Gophers!!
 

BleedGopher said:
per ESPN:

Juwan Howard expects his return to the Michigan Wolverines as their new head coach will continue to mend ties between the basketball program and the members of its iconic Fab Five teams of the early 1990s.

A little more than a quarter-century after he left the Ann Arbor campus for what turned out to be a 19-year career in the NBA, Howard was introduced as the program's new coach Thursday.

He was part of the unprecedented Fab Five recruiting class that led Michigan to the national championship game as freshmen and sophomores in 1992 and 1993. That group has had an awkward relationship with the school since NCAA sanctions forced Michigan to vacate victories from those seasons, among others.

The university removed the 1992 and 1993 Final Four banners from Crisler Arena. Howard said a discussion with university leaders about the return of the banners -- or finding some other way to recognize those teams -- is back on the table.

"We worked extremely hard. We sacrificed a lot, went through a ton of adversity, earned every minute of it," Howard said when asked about the banners approximately 20 minutes into his first public appearance after accepting the job. "That is something on the table that we as [an athletic department staff] will definitely revisit. We're not making any promises. That's all I can say at this moment."

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...857272/howard-wants-unite-wolverines-fab-five

Go Gophers!!
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I'm liking Juwan Howard more & more!

If Michigan chooses to do that, I hope the University of Minnesota follows suit. Won't hold my breath on that, though! Coyle strikes me as too soft to ever take that kind of stance, and I doubt the new president would want to make waves early in her tenure.
 

They should and so should the Gophers. The NCAA doesn't have to recognize the wins....but the school should be able to. Especially considering how the NCAA has handled even more egregious situations....mainly with UNC. And they should both tell them that if the NCAA complains about it.
 

stocker08 said:
They should and so should the Gophers. The NCAA doesn't have to recognize the wins....but the school should be able to. Especially considering how the NCAA has handled even more egregious situations....mainly with UNC. And they should both tell them that if the NCAA complains about it.
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+1000
 



Could they actually do anything for displaying a banner? It's just a banner and I can't believe the NCAA can punish a school for the content of something they hang in their gym, maybe they can just stitch the word "vacated" somewhere on the banner in very fine print.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
Could they actually do anything for displaying a banner? It's just a banner and I can't believe the NCAA can punish a school for the content of something they hang in their gym, maybe they can just stitch the word "vacated" somewhere on the banner in very fine print.
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Kinda like the word If on OJ's book

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 

GopherBlood666 said:
Could they actually do anything for displaying a banner? It's just a banner and I can't believe the NCAA can punish a school for the content of something they hang in their gym, maybe they can just stitch the word "vacated" somewhere on the banner in very fine print.
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Not sure if there is a penalty but other schools have tried and the NCAA owns the use of the phrase Final Four. My question is always why would you want to if you cheated to do it. Reminds me of the guys that cheated in golf tournaments i have played in that turned in a 75 when they shot 78. All for a 3rd place trophy. Never understand people that cheated and think they won something. Running your program clean is the most important thing.
 



builtbadgers said:
Not sure if there is a penalty but other schools have tried and the NCAA owns the use of the phrase Final Four. My question is always why would you want to if you cheated to do it. Reminds me of the guys that cheated in golf tournaments i have played in that turned in a 75 when they shot 78. All for a 3rd place trophy. Never understand people that cheated and think they won something. Running your program clean is the most important thing.
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I'm going to go out on a limb here so hopefully you can understand. If you're a fan of a school that was nailed, you're going to be pissed when there are all sorts of examples of schools that seem to get away with all sorts of cheating. It just might be the double standard.
 

Mulligan said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here so hopefully you can understand. If you're a fan of a school that was nailed, you're going to be pissed when there are all sorts of examples of schools that seem to get away with all sorts of cheating. It just might be the double standard.
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Good post, but he won't understand.
 

builtbadgers said:
Not sure if there is a penalty but other schools have tried and the NCAA owns the use of the phrase Final Four. My question is always why would you want to if you cheated to do it. Reminds me of the guys that cheated in golf tournaments i have played in that turned in a 75 when they shot 78. All for a 3rd place trophy. Never understand people that cheated and think they won something. Running your program clean is the most important thing.
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"Cheated" is a loaded term in this situation. Their on the court sucess wasn't a "cheat". And when the NCAA picks the winners and losers.....and allows teams like the Tarheels.....whos cheating transgressions were FAR worse.....off with a hand slap.....they no longer get to decide what "cheating" is.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 




Mulligan said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here so hopefully you can understand. If you're a fan of a school that was nailed, you're going to be pissed when there are all sorts of examples of schools that seem to get away with all sorts of cheating. It just might be the double standard.
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built's point is the reason not to cheat is because inherently you haven't earned what you are cheating to achieve. Yours is that the logic behind cheating is sound because some get away with it and some don't, and you don't find that fair. And in the absence of that fairness, cheating is a reasonable option.

The difference between the two is not a matter of "understanding" as you put it, but rather the importance of honesty with others, but more so being honest with yourself.. Some value that and some don't.
 

WoodburyTim said:
built's point is the reason not to cheat is because inherently you haven't earned what you are cheating to achieve. Yours is that the logic behind cheating is sound because some get away with it and some don't, and you don't find that fair. And in the absence of that fairness, cheating is a reasonable option.

The difference between the two is not a matter of "understanding" as you put it, but rather the importance of honesty with others, but more so being honest with yourself.. Some value that and some don't.
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To me, it all depends on if we would have accomplished what we did if we didn't cheat. If academic fraud didn't occur and the players would have done all their work on their own and still maintained eligibility then I wouldn't have a problem putting the banners up and celebrating them. If the only way those players on the final four team maintained eligibility was from academic fraud and they wouldn't have been eligible to play in the final four without it, then I wouldn't consider the final four appearance a legitimate accomplishment. I don't know what the case was with that.

In Michigan's case, would Chris Webber have signed with Michigan if Ed Martin wasn't paying him? I don't think we can know for sure but if we somehow knew for certain that Chris Webber would have signed with Michigan without receiving improper benefits then I don't have a problem with them putting their banners back up. But if he was planning on going to Duke or somewhere else and the only reason he signed at UM was because of Ed Martin then they shouldn't be put back up. Again, we'll never know for sure one way or another but if I was a fan of them, thats how I would justify it.
 

die hard gopher said:
To me, it all depends on if we would have accomplished what we did if we didn't cheat. If academic fraud didn't occur and the players would have done all their work on their own and still maintained eligibility then I wouldn't have a problem putting the banners up and celebrating them. If the only way those players on the final four team maintained eligibility was from academic fraud and they wouldn't have been eligible to play in the final four without it, then I wouldn't consider the final four appearance a legitimate accomplishment. I don't know what the case was with that.

In Michigan's case, would Chris Webber have signed with Michigan if Ed Martin wasn't paying him? I don't think we can know for sure but if we somehow knew for certain that Chris Webber would have signed with Michigan without receiving improper benefits then I don't have a problem with them putting their banners back up. But if he was planning on going to Duke or somewhere else and the only reason he signed at UM was because of Ed Martin then they shouldn't be put back up. Again, we'll never know for sure one way or another but if I was a fan of them, thats how I would justify it.
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Chris Webber was seriously considering Minnesota with Voshon. I'm sure we just didn't pay enough...
 

WoodburyTim said:
built's point is the reason not to cheat is because inherently you haven't earned what you are cheating to achieve. Yours is that the logic behind cheating is sound because some get away with it and some don't, and you don't find that fair. And in the absence of that fairness, cheating is a reasonable option.

The difference between the two is not a matter of "understanding" as you put it, but rather the importance of honesty with others, but more so being honest with yourself.. Some value that and some don't.
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My issue is not that some get away with it and some don't. That's the nature of cheating, cheaters try to conceal it and some are successful and get away with it. My problem is when a school like North Carolina doesn't get away with it but still isn't punished.

On balance, I'm against this because I think cheaters should be held accountable and not be able to claim victory (don't think steroid users should be in MLB hall of fame either, just like Lance was stripped of his tour titles). That said, I would till enjoy watching the NCAA answer questions about North Carolina when they try to address schools hanging vacated banners.
 

Winning at all costs because some programs allegedly get away with it is really misguided. Do you cheat at solitaire too? No glory in this at all. Michigan would be making a huge error.
 

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