Richard & Tubby Through 6 Seasons: A Follow-Up Comparison

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builtbadgers said:
Would be damn surprised if he took it.
i WOULD ADD TO THE LIST - Memphis,UCONN,NCSTATE,NOTRE DAME,WEST VIRGINIA,INDIANA,DAVIDSON,UTAH,STANFORD,S.CAROLINA,MISSOURI,TEXAS TECH,BYU. I left out any IVY's even though 3 of them have not only been more successful but are better jobs for the right guy. Better jobs is very subjective and a fan base could go round and round about it and never agree. I could easily sell this as a top 25 job for potential and all there is to offer which brings us back again to what terrible leadership we have had. I know what that looks like as UW was like that and UVA was mostly middling for their history except for the Sampson years but similar to us in being under .500 in conference with only 3 titles ! Nova was in the wilderness for 20 years before hiring Jay. Every single program suffers terribly when they hire less than stellar coaches. Great AD can change the entire picture for a athletic department because he knows how to find the right coach.
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I was waiting for you to mention potential. That is what an AD sells in many cases.
 



BarnBurner said:
Agree on the eye of the beholder.

Scandal. It killed men’s bb for a long time.

How did a much, much worse academic scandal at go Heels impact that program?
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"The NCAA is so mad at Kentucky they're going to give Cleveland State another year of probation."

Jerry Tarkanian
 

BarnBurner said:
I was waiting for you to mention potential. That is what an AD sells in many cases.
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There is a tremendous amount to sell to recruits. The people here in the past did not have the slightest clue how you identify and hire incredible coaches before they are recognized. The answers lie in the the most successful basketball people. Like a Jerry West, you ask him who the best coach you have seen not at a big job ! The schools that followed this type of plan asked Bob Knight, West, POP, Keady, K, Roy. They came up with the same names. We hire a scuz bucket AD who promises this and that and settles on 7. Maturi learned from a master AD aqnd then decided making a splash mattered ! Never mattered, winning is what matters. They were pleaded with to talk to coaching peers, NBA execs and scoffed at the plan that others have time tested for 50 years. UW did it but guess what, they screwed it up all the way until Richter actually paid for a comprehensive plan . The previous AD there was told in 1977 to be bold and make the move. They did not make that hire until 18 years later.
 



builtbadgers said:
There is a tremendous amount to sell to recruits. The people here in the past did not have the slightest clue how you identify and hire incredible coaches before they are recognized. The answers lie in the the most successful basketball people. Like a Jerry West, you ask him who the best coach you have seen not at a big job ! The schools that followed this type of plan asked Bob Knight, West, POP, Keady, K, Roy. They came up with the same names. We hire a scuz bucket AD who promises this and that and settles on 7. Maturi learned from a master AD aqnd then decided making a splash mattered ! Never mattered, winning is what matters. They were pleaded with to talk to coaching peers, NBA execs and scoffed at the plan that others have time tested for 50 years. UW did it but guess what, they screwed it up all the way until Richter actually paid for a comprehensive plan . The previous AD there was told in 1977 to be bold and make the move. They did not make that hire until 18 years later.
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Give me your count of coaches that have the ncaa by the shorthairs.
 





BarnBurner said:
K? Roy? Self? Cal?
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I do not like how they go about their business but where are the actual violations. I know what Roy let happen and UNC skated because of the same benefits to all students but all of those guys have to sleep at night and i would not want to win the way they do, or the scum at Oregon but there will need to be proof. I get it that it is so unfair to the others that play straight and what we win is at least real.
 

builtbadgers said:
I actually laid out a plan not only on here but directly to the AD as asked and it was rejected for a plan he already had in mind. We, until now have had absolute failure in hiring AD's.
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Just imagine the lofty heights this program would be at if only they had listened to your “plan”.

[emoji108][emoji108][emoji108][emoji108][emoji108][emoji108]
 

builtbadgers said:
There is a tremendous amount to sell to recruits. The people here in the past did not have the slightest clue how you identify and hire incredible coaches before they are recognized. The answers lie in the the most successful basketball people. Like a Jerry West, you ask him who the best coach you have seen not at a big job ! The schools that followed this type of plan asked Bob Knight, West, POP, Keady, K, Roy. They came up with the same names. We hire a scuz bucket AD who promises this and that and settles on 7. Maturi learned from a master AD aqnd then decided making a splash mattered ! Never mattered, winning is what matters. They were pleaded with to talk to coaching peers, NBA execs and scoffed at the plan that others have time tested for 50 years. UW did it but guess what, they screwed it up all the way until Richter actually paid for a comprehensive plan . The previous AD there was told in 1977 to be bold and make the move. They did not make that hire until 18 years later.
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You do know that Pitino was recommended by Billy Donovan, right? There are other good basketball minds then just the dinosaurs that you mentioned.


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I haven’t been following the whole thread, but it looks like it turned from a “trash the coach” in to “trash the program”.

Wow, with fans like this who needs Iowa or Sconny trolls!


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alchemy2u said:
You do know that Pitino was recommended by Billy Donovan, right? There are other good basketball minds then just the dinosaurs that you mentioned.


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Just in the reference of having worked together. Better to get the feedback without the bias. Those dinosaurs you reference tabbed Beard, Hopkins at Washington and Stevens for the Celts. For the record, i was told that they did not like the idea i had and had already decided to commit to Villa. I have no idea if my way would have worked but it could not be much worse. Yes, i am getting pretty old and in some ways pretty set in my opinions of what i like but i am also damn sure that i am sick and tired of being mediocre and after sinking a a great deal of money into this program i want more success. Again, my opinion. Not trashing a place i care a great deal about but expect way more.
 

builtbadgers said:
I do not like how they go about their business but where are the actual violations. I know what Roy let happen and UNC skated because of the same benefits to all students but all of those guys have to sleep at night and i would not want to win the way they do, or the scum at Oregon but there will need to be proof. I get it that it is so unfair to the others that play straight and what we win is at least real.
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Your first sentence is the crux. The same actions at MN would result in the hammer. At Go Heels, nothing. THAT is one point.

Further, regarding sleeping well, you appear to acknowledge the real issue and at the same time dismiss it. Cant do both.

Regarding others that play straight - this is the other point. The play straight group is at a disadvantage right out of the gate. The "no excuses" crowd of Gopher fans wont admit the obvious. And in the very next breath whine about mediocre or worse teams and trouble recruiting. Cant make it up.

BTW - is Dana A problematic? What is the story out west?
 

BarnBurner said:
Your first sentence is the crux. The same actions at MN would result in the hammer. At Go Heels, nothing. THAT is one point.

Further, regarding sleeping well, you appear to acknowledge the real issue and at the same time dismiss it. Cant do both.

Regarding others that play straight - this is the other point. The play straight group is at a disadvantage right out of the gate. The "no excuses" crowd of Gopher fans wont admit the obvious. And in the very next breath whine about mediocre or worse teams and trouble recruiting. Cant make it up.

BTW - is Dana A problematic? What is the story out west?
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I personally think that what they do is wrong but the NCAA does not. Further, there are dozens of non blue bloods that play it straight and some even win !
 

Regarding the original topic of Tubby/Richard comparisons, this year Coach Pitino did something never accomplished previously in Gopher history:

Minnesota won at least a game in both the Big 10 & NCAA Tourneys
 

BarnBurner said:
Your first sentence is the crux. The same actions at MN would result in the hammer. At Go Heels, nothing. THAT is one point.

Further, regarding sleeping well, you appear to acknowledge the real issue and at the same time dismiss it. Cant do both.

Regarding others that play straight - this is the other point. The play straight group is at a disadvantage right out of the gate. The "no excuses" crowd of Gopher fans wont admit the obvious. And in the very next breath whine about mediocre or worse teams and trouble recruiting. Cant make it up.

BTW - is Dana A problematic? What is the story out west?
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When has the "play it straight group" not been at a disadvantage? No doubt, its why it's so hard and not common to have teams do it right and be consistently good.
 

manderson1984 said:
When has the "play it straight group" not been at a disadvantage? No doubt, its why it's so hard and not common to have teams do it right and be consistently good.
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Never. That is part of the point. Your second sentence sums it up perfectly. In order to have a consistent winner, you have to strike on the (nearly) perfect coach. Not many of them to go around.

It simply gets old listening to gh'ers whine and snivel about not winning enough while not admitting the obvious. While go heels celebrate, the hole is depressed.

Unless MN gets a coach of builtbadger quality, we need to just enjoy the wins as they come.
 

BarnBurner said:
Never. That is part of the point. Your second sentence sums it up perfectly. In order to have a consistent winner, you have to strike on the (nearly) perfect coach. Not many of them to go around.

It simply gets old listening to gh'ers whine and snivel about not winning enough while not admitting the obvious. While go heels celebrate, the hole is depressed.

Unless MN gets a coach of builtbadger quality, we need to just enjoy the wins as they come.
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I think we just need to see the program in an upward trajectory we have to be satisfied. It's amazing how close some of the greats were to getting let go (Jay Wright, Coach K, ) What's getting harder now a days is that boosters are less and less impatient and when the money goes, that influences decisions. It does get old watching some like UNC and Duke make it, but we have some guys playing it straight too. Nova in the past, Virginia, Zaga,

Builts right, it starts with culture and you can't cheat that if you want something sustainable. Where he and I disagree a bit is I think certain guys need to be in the right place as well. I think Chris Beard will win anywhere, but I think he's a special type of fit with TT and wins there more than he would've in UNLV (Not saying he'd fail and UNLV either). MN will need that "special fit" guy.
 

manderson1984 said:
I think we just need to see the program in an upward trajectory we have to be satisfied. It's amazing how close some of the greats were to getting let go (Jay Wright, Coach K, ) What's getting harder now a days is that boosters are less and less impatient and when the money goes, that influences decisions. It does get old watching some like UNC and Duke make it, but we have some guys playing it straight too. Nova in the past, Virginia, Zaga,

Builts right, it starts with culture and you can't cheat that if you want something sustainable. Where he and I disagree a bit is I think certain guys need to be in the right place as well. I think Chris Beard will win anywhere, but I think he's a special type of fit with TT and wins there more than he would've in UNLV (Not saying he'd fail and UNLV either). MN will need that "special fit" guy.
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Agreed. Fit is a factor. Great coaches win anywhere but they stay when it is a great fit.
 

builtbadgers said:
Just in the reference of having worked together. Better to get the feedback without the bias. Those dinosaurs you reference tabbed Beard, Hopkins at Washington and Stevens for the Celts. For the record, i was told that they did not like the idea i had and had already decided to commit to Villa. I have no idea if my way would have worked but it could not be much worse. Yes, i am getting pretty old and in some ways pretty set in my opinions of what i like but i am also damn sure that i am sick and tired of being mediocre and after sinking a a great deal of money into this program i want more success. Again, my opinion. Not trashing a place i care a great deal about but expect way more.
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I may have gone too strong with dinosaurs, I am also an old fart. But Knight has lost his significance in Basketball years ago. Of course you want to get advice from the best coaches, but the guard is changing and many of those old timers are not around the game as much as they used to be.

So you really feel that Pitino hasn’t made any improvements and can’t lift up this program to a higher level? Disregard that they may have been able to get a more experienced coach from the start. I think he can if he develops the defense and keeps recruiting better players. He has been hamstrung by roster issues that has required playing guys out of position and filling spots. Disregard the roster problems, that have been self-inflicted and a glaring learning process. Given a full roster of B1G quality players, do you think he can develop and coach them to be competitive in the B1G?


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alchemy2u said:
I may have gone too strong with dinosaurs, I am also an old fart. But Knight has lost his significance in Basketball years ago. Of course you want to get advice from the best coaches, but the guard is changing and many of those old timers are not around the game as much as they used to be.

So you really feel that Pitino hasn’t made any improvements and can’t lift up this program to a higher level? Disregard that they may have been able to get a more experienced coach from the start. I think he can if he develops the defense and keeps recruiting better players. He has been hamstrung by roster issues that has required playing guys out of position and filling spots. Disregard the roster problems, that have been self-inflicted and a glaring learning process. Given a full roster of B1G quality players, do you think he can develop and coach them to be competitive in the B1G?


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Yes, will give one more year and if we are a 50th type defense and finish 7th in the conference then i will have had enough.
 

builtbadgers said:
Yes, will give one more year and if we are a 50th type defense and finish 7th in the conference then i will have had enough.
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So he gets one more year, he finishes 10-10, good for 7th, has the 30th defense and wins 2 NCAA games. Now what do you want to do?
 

bga1 said:
So he gets one more year, he finishes 10-10, good for 7th, has the 30th defense and wins 2 NCAA games. Now what do you want to do?
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Good question.

I feel that the way he loses his job is by having a season like 2017-18 before he has another season like 2016-17

Seasons like 2018-19 won’t get you fired.
Seasons like 2018-19 aren’t good enough to give a pass to seasons like 17-18.
 

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