Minnesota can be successful at basketball and Gabe should have been a 4*

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Face The Facts said:
The last 40+ years have shown we can not be successful at basketball at Minnesota save the weird mutation year that occurs once every other decade.

Not saying we should embrace it, but we're simply not a basketball school and it's highly unlikely we will be due to our geography.

Who wants to be in Minnesota in February?
Why fly to Minnesota to get recruited when there are so many other colleges closer to your home.
If you are from Minnesota, and really good, why not go to a blue-blood where you name is mentioned on ESPN 12 times a day?
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At this point we are a volleyball and women's hockey school.
Football, men's basketball and men's hockey have been irrelevant for over a decade and basketball/football has been down for a couple generations.
We still cheer. We still hope. We are the college version of the lovable Cubs.
 


Otis said:
It's just weird how Tre Williams has skyrocketed since committing to the Gophers while Gabe seems to have been held back.
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Tre Williams has potential to be a top 3 player on a good team.
Gabe’s upside is that of an outstanding role player ImO



Edit***
Having never seen tre Williams play, that’s the argument I’d assume they’d use to justify ranking a player better than Gabe. That’s my honest opinion of Gabe.
 
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builtbadgers said:
Agree, but you do realize that the UW level over 20 years is a top 10 program ! It can be done here. There are a dozen known coaches that would win here just like where they have won before.
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It can't be done here. Racism, Socialism and Feminism have united to create a putrid swamp of hippies bent on cutting the nads out of all men's sports. [emoji41]
 

theczar said:
Heard that pitino was lukewarm on Gabe and that Johnson pushed hard to recruit him....ESPN Had Gabe as a 4 STAR
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I can see that. Gabe doesn't really fit with our strategy of bringing in athletic guys that can't shoot and have low basketball IQ's/
 


Otis said:
You can't tell me kids don't want to come to Minneapolis, if so, they just haven't been here. Kids go to freaking Spokane to play for Gonzaga! The best way to recruit for Minnesota would be to send kids to Iowa City and say, "look at how much more Minneapolis has to offer!"

Kids go to Oklahoma, which is kind of like the edge of nowhere. Might explain why basketball players don't go to Penn State though.
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They tried to drive up, but they got stuck in Owatonna at the Armory...
 

MennoSota said:
It can't be done here. Racism, Socialism and Feminism have united to create a putrid swamp of hippies bent on cutting the nads out of all men's sports. [emoji41]
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Have you been to Madison?
 


MennoSota said:
At this point we are a volleyball and women's hockey school.
Football, men's basketball and men's hockey have been irrelevant for over a decade and basketball/football has been down for a couple generations.
We still cheer. We still hope. We are the college version of the lovable Cubs.
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Lol, hopefully FB is on the rise and don't forget women's basketball. I still think Whalen will get that program highly competitive.
 



Some guy said:
Tre Williams has potential to be a top 3 player on a good team.
Gabe’s upside is that of an outstanding role player ImO



Edit***
Having never seen tre Williams play, that’s the argument I’d assume they’d use to justify ranking a player better than Gabe. That’s my honest opinion of Gabe.
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Gabe has been really good. Obviously a very good shooter. And he's proven to be able to put the ball on the deck and get in the lane/to the rim at times. Not to mention he is well above average on D. All of this as a freshman. He may not be super athletic, but there is little reason he can't be a major contributor on a very good team. Saying anything role player related about Gabe seems unfair to me. Here's to hoping Tre is as successful as Gabe has been as a freshman.
 


Bad Gopher said:
I guess my standard is somewhere between where things are at today and UCLA's glory run. Seriously, my wife and I got in on season tickets during the euphoria of the 1988-90 NCAA tourney runs. That wasn't too many years after the 1982 conference championship. Nobody here is ever going to convince me that those accomplishments can't be a baseline of success, even though it's been how many years. As I've posted here many times, the only reason we keep our seats is the hope/belief that we'll get back to those thrills. What's going on now is not our idea of real fun and not objectively worth the investment. It blows me away every day reading posts about how all we need is increased irrational hope that the next six years will be night-and-day different than the last six.
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Do you believe there are coaches that are night and day better than anything we have had.
 




BballJones said:
Gabe has been really good. Obviously a very good shooter. And he's proven to be able to put the ball on the deck and get in the lane/to the rim at times. Not to mention he is well above average on D. All of this as a freshman. He may not be super athletic, but there is little reason he can't be a major contributor on a very good team. Saying anything role player related about Gabe seems unfair to me. Here's to hoping Tre is as successful as Gabe has been as a freshman.
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Disagree with your assessment about his ability to put the ball on the floor.
He can’t do that consistently against good competition.
Hence why I think his ceiling in a good team is to be one of the top role players.

He is like a better defending Hoffarber. Great player, but you can’t put the ball in his hands every possession and let him create. Which to me separates a great player from a good role player.
 

Some guy said:
Disagree with your assessment about his ability to put the ball on the floor.
He can’t do that consistently against good competition.
Hence why I think his ceiling in a good team is to be one of the top role players.

He is like a better defending Hoffarber. Great player, but you can’t put the ball in his hands every possession and let him create. Which to me separates a great player from a good role player.
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Consistently? No. Not at this point. But he's only going to get physically stronger as well as strong with the basketball. Time will tell I guess.
 

Some guy said:
Disagree with your assessment about his ability to put the ball on the floor.
He can’t do that consistently against good competition.
Hence why I think his ceiling in a good team is to be one of the top role players.

He is like a better defending Hoffarber. Great player, but you can’t put the ball in his hands every possession and let him create. Which to me separates a great player from a good role player.
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Are you saying Hoffarber was a role player? Cause I beg to differ.
 



manderson1984 said:
On a great team he should be.
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Those teams had a lot going for them!

C-Ralph Sampson III/Colton Iverson
PF-Trevor MBawkwe
SF-Rodney Williams
SG-Blake Hoffarber
PG-Al Nolen

Had Freshmen consisting of the Hollins Brothers, Otto, Elliot Eliason, Chip Armelin ( Who I really liked) and reserves Dominic Dawson and Maverick Ahanmessi. Lost Devoe Joseph to transfer

This team was pretty awesome with Sampson, Mbawkwe and Williams leading the NCAA in dunks and Hoffarber providing shooting from the outside and Nolen running the point. Wheels fell off when Nolen was injured, Josph had left and Maverick and Hollins couldn't play the point effectively.

Hoffarber and Trevor were the stars. This was a top 15 team that beat #8 North Carolina and COULD have been great.
Snakebit as usual.
 

Otis said:
Those teams had a lot going for them!

C-Ralph Sampson III/Colton Iverson
PF-Trevor MBawkwe
SF-Rodney Williams
SG-Blake Hoffarber
PG-Al Nolen

Had Freshmen consisting of the Hollins Brothers, Otto, Elliot Eliason, Chip Armelin ( Who I really liked) and reserves Dominic Dawson and Maverick Ahanmessi. Lost Devoe Joseph to transfer

This team was pretty awesome with Sampson, Mbawkwe and Williams leading the NCAA in dunks and Hoffarber providing shooting from the outside and Nolen running the point. Wheels fell off when Nolen was injured, Josph had left and Maverick and Hollins couldn't play the point effectively.

Hoffarber and Trevor were the stars. This was a top 15 team that beat #8 North Carolina and COULD have been great.
Snakebit as usual.
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That group didn't have Dre Hollins. Trevor was a star and for us to be a top 15 team all year, Blake needed to be our 3rd or 4th best player and that was my main point (not a rip on Blake, I loved watching him play). We don't give Richard passes for last season, we don't give excuses for this one either. We've had a lot of teams that COULD have been great.
 

Face The Facts said:
The last 40+ years have shown we can not be successful at basketball at Minnesota save the weird mutation year that occurs once every other decade.

Not saying we should embrace it, but we're simply not a basketball school and it's highly unlikely we will be due to our geography.

Who wants to be in Minnesota in February?
Why fly to Minnesota to get recruited when there are so many other colleges closer to your home.
If you are from Minnesota, and really good, why not go to a blue-blood where you name is mentioned on ESPN 12 times a day?
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You’re not rowing the basketball boat?

40 years? They had a pretty successful run through the 70s, 80s, and 90s, and have never recovered from the fallout of the scandal when Clem left. We were in Final Four 22 years ago, and it did happen - I was there. Given UNC, FSU and others in recent years, we should hang up the banner. Yet, it is what it is.

The boat should be much easier to row in hoops with a decent recruiting base, and simply needing fewer players. Again, if WI and Marquette can win consistently in neighboring state, no reason MN can’t.


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Ozzy&Ray said:
You’re not rowing the basketball boat? They had a pretty successful run through the 70s, 80s, and 90s, and have never recovered from the fallout of the scandal when Clem left. The boat should be much easier to row in hoops with a decent recruiting base, and simply needing fewer players. Again, if WI and Marquette can win consistently, no reason MN can’t.


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Actually the fewer players thing works both ways. It makes misses hurt much more and can be setbacks that last for years.
 

Otis said:
Those teams had a lot going for them!

C-Ralph Sampson III/Colton Iverson
PF-Trevor MBawkwe
SF-Rodney Williams
SG-Blake Hoffarber
PG-Al Nolen

Had Freshmen consisting of the Hollins Brothers, Otto, Elliot Eliason, Chip Armelin ( Who I really liked) and reserves Dominic Dawson and Maverick Ahanmessi. Lost Devoe Joseph to transfer

This team was pretty awesome with Sampson, Mbawkwe and Williams leading the NCAA in dunks and Hoffarber providing shooting from the outside and Nolen running the point. Wheels fell off when Nolen was injured, Josph had left and Maverick and Hollins couldn't play the point effectively.

Hoffarber and Trevor were the stars. This was a top 15 team that beat #8 North Carolina and COULD have been great.
Snakebit as usual.
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Didn’t that team lose 11 straight in big ten play when Nolen went down? If so, seems nolen was the real star. Kinda shows the difference a real pg can make in a team.

Since the 70s when the U has been good it’s also been nailed for cheating. There’s no reason the U can’t be good other than it can’t seem to get out of its own way

At least we’ve shown that a new facility doesn’t change things
 

GopherOhana said:
Didn’t that team lose 11 straight in big ten play when Nolen went down? If so, seems nolen was the real star. Kinda shows the difference a real pg can make in a team.

Since the 70s when the U has been good it’s also been nailed for cheating. There’s no reason the U can’t be good other than it can’t seem to get out of its own way

At least we’ve shown that a new facility doesn’t change things
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Nolen was a true +- all-star! He rarely turned the ball over and was a true defensive stopper. Didn't even turn heads as an assist machine just plain steady. I hate to say it, but a real (gulp) Badger type.
 

Otis said:
Nolen was a true +- all-star! He rarely turned the ball over and was a true defensive stopper. Didn't even turn heads as an assist machine just plain steady. I hate to say it, but a real (gulp) Badger type.
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Al was such the typical Minnesota-bred guard that keeps rolling off the assembly line today: underrated 3-star, good defender, sneaky quick, decent shooter - the McKinley Wright that didn't get away.
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
You’re not rowing the basketball boat?

40 years? They had a pretty successful run through the 70s, 80s, and 90s, and have never recovered from the fallout of the scandal when Clem left. We were in Final Four 22 years ago, and it did happen - I was there. Given UNC, FSU and others in recent years, we should hang up the banner. Yet, it is what it is.

The boat should be much easier to row in hoops with a decent recruiting base, and simply needing fewer players. Again, if WI and Marquette can win consistently in neighboring state, no reason MN can’t.


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Why is it this program was solid from the 70s-90s though and isn't now? That is the question that must be answered before anything changes. I have a hard time believing that the academic scandal of 98 is still holding us back. There has to be something fundamentally wrong in order to go from where they were, to where we are now. Coaches? Players? Were they paying players, giving them advantages, etc back then and stopped after the Clem deal?
 

Go Gophs said:
Why is it this program was solid from the 70s-90s though and isn't now? That is the question that must be answered before anything changes. I have a hard time believing that the academic scandal of 98 is still holding us back. There has to be something fundamentally wrong in order to go from where they were, to where we are now. Coaches? Players? Were they paying players, giving them advantages, etc back then and stopped after the Clem deal?
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Not that hard to explain. There were built in disadvantages during Monson years with recruiting visits, scholarships, etc. Tubby made progress, ran into some bad luck, but didn’t get it done in his timeframe. Would have he? Who knows? To this point, Pitino just hadn’t worked. One thing I agree with BuiltBadgers on, it’s about coaching. The right coach will get them over the hump.


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manderson1984 said:
Actually the fewer players thing works both ways. It makes misses hurt much more and can be setbacks that last for years.
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Yep, and we have had some bad luck and bad decisions over time. Should be easier to correct though. Is it players, system the last couple of years? Last year, bad luck. This year?

Either way, I really like Pitino, and would love to see it work for him. Wish it would, but... we will see what happens the next couple of weeks


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Ozzy&Ray said:
Yep, and we have had some bad luck and bad decisions over time. Should be easier to correct though. Is it players, system the last couple of years? Last year, bad luck. This year?

Either way, I really like Pitino, and would love to see it work for him. Wish it would, but... we will see what happens the next couple of weeks


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Combo of many things I'm sure, but sadly as a leader it falls on you. I like Pitino too, felt he has grown as a coach tremendously, but it'd take one heck a run to save his job in my opinion.
 

Flash30 said:
What’s stunting our growth into a top tier B1G team is our inability to keep kids home that are blue chip prospects. This is a golden age of Minnesota basketball talent, sure we get the occasional 4 star Minnesota kid, but we don’t land program changers.
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I would tend to agree, but Wisconsin has the same problem of not being able to hold on to blue chip prospects and seems to be able to maintain success. Wojo coaching at Marquette has been a big thorn in Wisconsin's side as he has more of an appeal to blue chippers as he comes from the Duke/Coach K tree. Both the Hauser brothers went to Marquette, Diamond Stone to Maryland, JP Tokoto to UNC, Tyler Herro to Kentucky, Jordan McCabe to WV, etc. Really the only in-state blue chipper that Wisconsin has held on to recently is Sam Dekker. I will concede that Wisconsin does have a larger recruiting pool with Chicago being nearby, especially finding that diamond-in-the-rough like Frank Kaminksy that everyone else passes over.

And maybe this is where coaching comes in a little as well, and the ability to coach up a 3-star like Ethan Happ who only had 3 total offers, the other two from mid-majors, and allowing their system to help make him into an All-American.
 

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