Minnesota can be successful at basketball and Gabe should have been a 4*

[Otis]

Losing 6 of 7 games is kind of a staple of Pitino's legacy here, but it doesn't mean Minnesota can't support a successful top half of the B1G basketball program. There are certain factors which need to be addressed to achieve this however:

1. Recruit, recruit, recruit. Gopher coaches need to be all over the successful Minnesota High Schools selling the potential of the University. Look at how well the two freshmen from established programs have done this year! Imagine if we got a few kids from well coached teams in Lakeville, Apple Valley, Minnehaha Academy, and others. Can't just settle for three star "potential" recruits and expect to make them into great players. We need some ready to go types who can help the program immediately.

2. Coach to the players ability and not to the coach's desires. I am fed up watching our slow 6'8" PG try to stay with quicker guards. Not recognizing a players weakness is going to be the death of Pitino. All that length on the court and he rarely puts the guys in a zone. Not to mention how a zone could cover up IW's defensive shortcomings and get him on the floor to help maximize our offense.

3. Develop the players games. I'm just spitballing here but they can't be emphasizing shooting practice. No way they should be this bad after this many years in the program. Yes, you can't teach Shaq to shoot free throws, but guards should be able to shoot and make open shots.


As for Kalesheur, Is there a major flaw in the scouting services that let him only be a three star? I am very impressed by his game. Need five players with his basketball knowledge and ability to execute in the moment.

As for last night, biggest negative aspect on Pitino's coaching was, Gabe is 5 for 5 from three and they can't run plays to get him more than one 3 attempt after halftime? This is like not using your en-fuego player to shoot in NBA JAM! Tubby used to run Hoffarber off screens constantly to get him open looks. Would have been nice to see Gabe get freed up for 5 or more 3 attempts in the 2nd half. Huge missed opportunity.

We are just 1 player or two away from cracking through, Minnesota can be excellent, but like the Vikings winning the Super Bowl I may not live to see it.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

Gabe committed early and never wavered. I believe a lot of people quit rating him during the circuit and high school games aren’t weighted as heavily due to competition being so inconsistent. Dominating a team with 0 College level players doesn’t show a lot (not saying Gabe did this, just in general)

 

[Otis]

Gabe committed early and never wavered. I believe a lot of people quit rating him during the circuit and high school games aren’t weighted as heavily due to competition being so inconsistent. Dominating a team with 0 College level players doesn’t show a lot (not saying Gabe did this, just in general)

It's just weird how Tre Williams has skyrocketed since committing to the Gophers while Gabe seems to have been held back.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

Gabe got the same number of stars as Rivals gave a fictional player. Wonder if they both got the same "evaluation."

 

[Dano564]

The last 40+ years have shown we can not be successful at basketball at Minnesota save the weird mutation year that occurs once every other decade.

Not saying we should embrace it, but we're simply not a basketball school and it's highly unlikely we will be due to our geography.

Who wants to be in Minnesota in February?
Why fly to Minnesota to get recruited when there are so many other colleges closer to your home.
If you are from Minnesota, and really good, why not go to a blue-blood where you name is mentioned on ESPN 12 times a day?

 

[builtbadgers]

Gabe committed early and never wavered. I believe a lot of people quit rating him during the circuit and high school games aren’t weighted as heavily due to competition being so inconsistent. Dominating a team with 0 College level players doesn’t show a lot (not saying Gabe did this, just in general)

Pitino most likely evaluated Gabe as a high 4 star. Coaches do not look at a ratings service to do a evaluation. I always look back at where a player ended his college career versus those ranked above him to gauge a coaches evaluation and development. Credit to Pitino on this one as Gabe is going to accomplish more than 80 % of the players in his class.

 

[GopherNuts]

The last 40+ years have shown we can not be successful at basketball at Minnesota save the weird mutation year that occurs once every other decade.

Not saying we should embrace it, but we're simply not a basketball school and it's highly unlikely we will be due to our geography.

Who wants to be in Minnesota in February?
Why fly to Minnesota to get recruited when there are so many other colleges closer to your home.
If you are from Minnesota, and really good, why not go to a blue-blood where you name is mentioned on ESPN 12 times a day?

Why would anyone want to go to Wisconsin in February? Michigan? Kansas? Indiana? If you have a good coach, players will come.

 

[Flash30]

What’s stunting our growth into a top tier B1G team is our inability to keep kids home that are blue chip prospects. This is a golden age of Minnesota basketball talent, sure we get the occasional 4 star Minnesota kid, but we don’t land program changers.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

The last 40+ years have shown we can not be successful at basketball at Minnesota save the weird mutation year that occurs once every other decade.

Not saying we should embrace it, but we're simply not a basketball school and it's highly unlikely we will be due to our geography.

Who wants to be in Minnesota in February?
Why fly to Minnesota to get recruited when there are so many other colleges closer to your home.
If you are from Minnesota, and really good, why not go to a blue-blood where you name is mentioned on ESPN 12 times a day?

No, they have shown that we have not been successful. No reason we can't get to at least Wisconsin level success. Many of your same points could have been made about the Badgers before they got good.

 

[Bad Gopher]

The last 40+ years have shown we can not be successful at basketball at Minnesota save the weird mutation year that occurs once every other decade.

Not saying we should embrace it, but we're simply not a basketball school and it's highly unlikely we will be due to our geography.

Who wants to be in Minnesota in February?
Why fly to Minnesota to get recruited when there are so many other colleges closer to your home.
If you are from Minnesota, and really good, why not go to a blue-blood where you name is mentioned on ESPN 12 times a day?

If you were hired as our AD, I would assassinate you.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Pitino most likely evaluated Gabe as a high 4 star. Coaches do not look at a ratings service to do a evaluation. I always look back at where a player ended his college career versus those ranked above him to gauge a coaches evaluation and development. Credit to Pitino on this one as Gabe is going to accomplish more than 80 % of the players in his class.

Word on the street is that Ben Johnson evaluated him and pushed hard for him. Not sure he would have come here had it not been for Johnson.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

Pitino most likely evaluated Gabe as a high 4 star. Coaches do not look at a ratings service to do a evaluation. I always look back at where a player ended his college career versus those ranked above him to gauge a coaches evaluation and development. Credit to Pitino on this one as Gabe is going to accomplish more than 80 % of the players in his class.

Agreed. Gabe will have a really good career here.

My point was that when he committed and never wavered, he didn't pick up a bunch of offers (that we/recruiting services know about) which leads me to believe a lot of the services just let him slide as a solid 3 star who was going to his hometown school. If he had picked up a ton of offers, tweeted them all out, etc. there is a higher likelihood that he would have been a 4 star because recruiting services would have taken time to evaluate him.

Also, when he played for HP he was with Tre Jones. If I was watching that game I'd see Gabe drill a ton of 3s, and assume a lot had to do with Tre getting him looks. Not fair to Gabe but its how it works, honestly.

 

[Dano564]

If you were hired as our AD, I would assassinate you.

Harsh.

But fair.

But harsh.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Harsh.

But fair.

But harsh.

But humorous. My point is that you would never hire an AD with such an outlook or attitude because that's irresponsible and a loser mentality, so why should fans push this narrative? Unless you truly feel so strongly about this that you'd advocate hiring an AD who'd implement this as a mission and vision. Maybe you would.

 

[builtbadgers]

No, they have shown that we have not been successful. No reason we can't get to at least Wisconsin level success. Many of your same points could have been made about the Badgers before they got good.

Agree, but you do realize that the UW level over 20 years is a top 10 program ! It can be done here. There are a dozen known coaches that would win here just like where they have won before.

 

[theczar]

Heard that pitino was lukewarm on Gabe and that Johnson pushed hard to recruit him....ESPN Had Gabe as a 4 STAR

 

[JimmyJamesMD]

Heard that pitino was lukewarm on Gabe and that Johnson pushed hard to recruit him....ESPN Had Gabe as a 4 STAR

if thats true, Pitino can be shown the door. I was optimistic about his recruiting, but it has not come to fruition. Tubby's recruiting might have tailed off, but at least he started fast

 

[Go Gophs]

The last 40+ years have shown we can not be successful at basketball at Minnesota save the weird mutation year that occurs once every other decade.

Not saying we should embrace it, but we're simply not a basketball school and it's highly unlikely we will be due to our geography.

Who wants to be in Minnesota in February?
Why fly to Minnesota to get recruited when there are so many other colleges closer to your home.
If you are from Minnesota, and really good, why not go to a blue-blood where you name is mentioned on ESPN 12 times a day?

They can win here.
Every Big Ten school is cold. Its one of the best basketball conferences in the land and kids that play here get plenty of run on TV. Clem was winning.

I don't buy they can't win here. They can. It literally takes 7 players that are talented and well coached and you will win. Get 4 years in a row of making the dance with a sweet sixteen run or 2 mixed in there and
those top recruits will start to come.

 

[Otis]

You can't tell me kids don't want to come to Minneapolis, if so, they just haven't been here. Kids go to freaking Spokane to play for Gonzaga! The best way to recruit for Minnesota would be to send kids to Iowa City and say, "look at how much more Minneapolis has to offer!"

Kids go to Oklahoma, which is kind of like the edge of nowhere. Might explain why basketball players don't go to Penn State though.

 

[Dano564]

But humorous. My point is that you would never hire an AD with such an outlook or attitude because that's irresponsible and a loser mentality, so why should fans push this narrative? Unless you truly feel so strongly about this that you'd advocate hiring an AD who'd implement this as a mission and vision. Maybe you would.

As AD you have to set a more positive vision, but as a fan, I can look at it for what it is.
Hopefully the next 10 years can be better than the last 40.

 

[Bad Gopher]

As AD you have to set a more positive vision, but as a fan, I can look at it for what it is.
Hopefully the next 10 years can be better than the last 40.

The last 40 had a lot of great moments. It's dishonest to take these last six, project them backward 34 years and forward 40 years and proclaim that it's been this way for decades and will be this way for decades. It's one thing to be pessimistic. It's another to lie.

 

[builtbadgers]

The last 40 had a lot of great moments. It's dishonest to take these last six, project them backward 34 years and forward 40 years and proclaim that it's been this way for decades and will be this way for decades. It's one thing to be pessimistic. It's another to lie.

Great moments is spread pretty thin over that 40 years. I looked at the win totals in conference, conference titles and at least for me is mediocre. Said for me.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Losing 6 of 7 games is kind of a staple of Pitino's legacy here, but it doesn't mean Minnesota can't support a successful top half of the B1G basketball program. There are certain factors which need to be addressed to achieve this however:

1. Recruit, recruit, recruit. Gopher coaches need to be all over the successful Minnesota High Schools selling the potential of the University. Look at how well the two freshmen from established programs have done this year! Imagine if we got a few kids from well coached teams in Lakeville, Apple Valley, Minnehaha Academy, and others. Can't just settle for three star "potential" recruits and expect to make them into great players. We need some ready to go types who can help the program immediately.

2. Coach to the players ability and not to the coach's desires. I am fed up watching our slow 6'8" PG try to stay with quicker guards. Not recognizing a players weakness is going to be the death of Pitino. All that length on the court and he rarely puts the guys in a zone. Not to mention how a zone could cover up IW's defensive shortcomings and get him on the floor to help maximize our offense.

3. Develop the players games. I'm just spitballing here but they can't be emphasizing shooting practice. No way they should be this bad after this many years in the program. Yes, you can't teach Shaq to shoot free throws, but guards should be able to shoot and make open shots.


As for Kalesheur, Is there a major flaw in the scouting services that let him only be a three star? I am very impressed by his game. Need five players with his basketball knowledge and ability to execute in the moment.

As for last night, biggest negative aspect on Pitino's coaching was, Gabe is 5 for 5 from three and they can't run plays to get him more than one 3 attempt after halftime? This is like not using your en-fuego player to shoot in NBA JAM! Tubby used to run Hoffarber off screens constantly to get him open looks. Would have been nice to see Gabe get freed up for 5 or more 3 attempts in the 2nd half. Huge missed opportunity.

We are just 1 player or two away from cracking through, Minnesota can be excellent, but like the Vikings winning the Super Bowl I may not live to see it.

1. Do you believe that the MN staff hasn't been all over MN kids? If anything it's been to a fault. They probably lost some kids staying persistent for too long to kids that don't want t be here.
2. Built and others have brought this up enough, but the lack of an identity and recruiting to it is obviously killing Richard. Richard sticking to man is his one attempt to do this. There's a reason no good defensive teams run much if any zone in the B10. It doesn't work in the league.

3. No college team doesn't emphasize shooting and getting better and it. Questioning offense and fit are fair arguments, but college players shoot all the time or they flake out regardless of position or skill set.

 

[HOOP DREAMS]

Word on the street is that Ben Johnson evaluated him and pushed hard for him. Not sure he would have come here had it not been for Johnson.

Haha. Ok.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Great moments is spread pretty thin over that 40 years. I looked at the win totals in conference, conference titles and at least for me is mediocre. Said for me.

If you start in 1978, the first 22 years of those roughly 40 years included two conference titles - one with a top 10 national ranking and the other a top 5 ranking; 7 NCAA berths (including when there were only 32 invitees; a Final Four, an Elite 8 and two Sweet Sixteens; multiple McDonalds All-American recruits; two conference players of the year; two Big Ten coaches of the year; one national coach of the year; and one all-American. If the next 22 years were anything like those 22 years, we would obviously take that.

(Yes, some of these accomplishments have been wiped away, but I'm talking about great moments, and those were all certainly moments and experiences.)

 

[cjbfbp]

Why would anyone want to go to Wisconsin in February? Michigan? Kansas? Indiana? If you have a good coach, players will come.

I don't disagree with your last statement.

As far as February climate, however, Kansas and Indiana (particularly the Bloomington area) aren't close to Minnesota winter severity. The part of Michigan where most of the population resides isn't as bad either.

 

[Golden Deuce]

What’s stunting our growth into a top tier B1G team is our inability to keep kids home that are blue chip prospects. This is a golden age of Minnesota basketball talent, sure we get the occasional 4 star Minnesota kid, but we don’t land program changers.

Orturu could have gone to Kansas,

stayed home, and if he improves at all, will be a supreme stud as a Jr. and Sr.

Not a program changer, yet, but could be with a little development

Has the potential to be as good as murph, has better size.

 

[builtbadgers]

If you start in 1978, the first 22 years of those roughly 40 years included two conference titles - one with a top 10 national ranking and the other a top 5 ranking; 7 NCAA berths (including when there were only 32 invitees; a Final Four, an Elite 8 and two Sweet Sixteens; multiple McDonalds All-American recruits; two conference players of the year; two Big Ten coaches of the year; one national coach of the year; and one all-American. If the next 22 years were anything like those 22 years, we would obviously take that.

(Yes, some of these accomplishments have been wiped away, but I'm talking about great moments, and those were all certainly moments and experiences.)

Would never try and take away your memories, they are yours and others. For me, i never count what we lost not in speculation but proven cheating. Again, just me. I counted 40 years, one Big 10 title, and a terrible win loss record in the conference. One of the great things about being a fan besides assumed entertainment is the freedom to choose your own standard for the team and its performance.

 

[cjbfbp]

You can't tell me kids don't want to come to Minneapolis, if so, they just haven't been here. Kids go to freaking Spokane to play for Gonzaga! The best way to recruit for Minnesota would be to send kids to Iowa City and say, "look at how much more Minneapolis has to offer!"

Kids go to Oklahoma, which is kind of like the edge of nowhere. Might explain why basketball players don't go to Penn State though.

Having gone to school in Iowa City, I would both agree and disagree. Iowa City is a college town. Minneapolis is much more than that. There are good and bad things about both. Iowa City can seem limited but it has a cozier feeling and you're more likely to just run into your friends on a Saturday night downtown or at a random house party or just walking around the campus area. The U of M is more sprawling, urban, and has a less cohesive feeling.

As far as Penn State (I know quite a bit about PA), I think you are right about its isolation. I think one of the reasons Chambers is still there despite a lackluster record is that he was able to get significant recruits from the Philadelphia area to go to PSU. The SE corner of the state historically has been the only real basketball hotbed in an otherwise football dominated state. When I lived in PA, PSU was never a destination for Philadelphia area players. They typically went to the Philadelphia area colleges or, if they were good enough, places like Syracuse or ACC schools.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Would never try and take away your memories, they are yours and others. For me, i never count what we lost not in speculation but proven cheating. Again, just me. I counted 40 years, one Big 10 title, and a terrible win loss record in the conference. One of the great things about being a fan besides assumed entertainment is the freedom to choose your own standard for the team and its performance.

I guess my standard is somewhere between where things are at today and UCLA's glory run. Seriously, my wife and I got in on season tickets during the euphoria of the 1988-90 NCAA tourney runs. That wasn't too many years after the 1982 conference championship. Nobody here is ever going to convince me that those accomplishments can't be a baseline of success, even though it's been how many years. As I've posted here many times, the only reason we keep our seats is the hope/belief that we'll get back to those thrills. What's going on now is not our idea of real fun and not objectively worth the investment. It blows me away every day reading posts about how all we need is increased irrational hope that the next six years will be night-and-day different than the last six.