Alarming facts and stats inside Richard Pitino's 30-58 conference record

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scools12 said:
It this year had produced another NCAA tourney bid there would be no talk of Pitino being fired. The expectations coming off of last year in were probably too high. IMO no way this team was top 15 in the country. More like a borderline top 25.

Either way the injuries and suspension showed how far this program really has to go in year 5 of this regime. Needed everything to go nearly perfect to have a legit chance to meet those high expectations. Some on here think next year will be "great" based on added depth. Simply adding bodies to the roster doesn't guarantee anything. Expecting the 3 freshmen to be big contributors next year is asking a lot. Combine that with the 2 sophomores you have 5 underclassmen in the rotation, Curry coming back from injury and questions regarding what does Stockman offer doesn't seem like much more than a NIT bid at best next year.
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You are spot on.
 

I am behind Pitino 100%. His coaches, his recruiting, the way he handles his players. I loved Clem, didn't like Monson. Was excited about Tubby until I got to see his offense. Had a hard time watching it. Didn't like the way he handled his kids. His teams got worse as the season progressed. Thru all the crap, have been interested in this team since Pitino got here. It has been trial by fire. Can't get worse. I think the future looks bright. His teams always play hard.
 

scools12 said:
This where myself and some others differ from you. You think the team if not for the misfortunes would virtual a lock for the a NCAA bid. Based on what we saw early in the season I think even without the suspension and injuries this team would be squarely on the bubble.
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Considering that we were 13-3 and 2-1 before the injuries and suspensions (even with the loss of Curry) and we are 1-12 since, I think I have a lot more evidence for my viewpoint than you do for yours. I don't think we would be anywhere near the bubble.

One of the things that has gotten little mention is that even when we were 13-3 - Lynch was playing under a cloud and the rest of the team knew what was in the wind as well. I mentioned that he was playing in a funk and I recall myself and others here discussing how things seemed to not look right after the weird Alabama game in late November. But maybe the downhill slide was already beginning because the team knew about the EEOA investigation into Lynch late in October. Anyone who understands how that board works probably knew that Lynch's days were numbered even back then. They as a team were playing under the same cloud that Reggie was, to a degree. They knew what a factor he was to where the team would go.

So you have to view the season through the understanding of what these players have gone through emotionally, in addition to the sheer loss of manpower. These kids are human and the emotions involved are a factor. I have no doubt that this would have been a great season with out the Lynch issue and the injuries. The guys that we lost made the guys that remain better players. Mason was better when he didn't have to force it and teams couldn't focus on him. Murphy the same.
 

bga1 said:
Considering that we were 13-3 and 2-1 before the injuries and suspensions (even with the loss of Curry) and we are 1-12 since, I think I have a lot more evidence for my viewpoint than you do for yours. I don't think we would be anywhere near the bubble.

One of the things that has gotten little mention is that even when we were 13-3 - Lynch was playing under a cloud and the rest of the team knew what was in the wind as well. I mentioned that he was playing in a funk and I recall myself and others here discussing how things seemed to not look right after the weird Alabama game in late November. But maybe the downhill slide was already beginning because the team knew about the EEOA investigation into Lynch late in October. Anyone who understands how that board works probably knew that Lynch's days were numbered even back then. They as a team were playing under the same cloud that Reggie was, to a degree. They knew what a factor he was to where the team would go.

So you have to view the season through the understanding of what these players have gone through emotionally, in addition to the sheer loss of manpower. These kids are human and the emotions involved are a factor. I have no doubt that this would have been a great season with out the Lynch issue and the injuries. The guys that we lost made the guys that remain better players. Mason was better when he didn't have to force it and teams couldn't focus on him. Murphy the same.
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agreed
 

scools12 said:
This where myself and some others differ from you. You think the team if not for the misfortunes would virtual a lock for the a NCAA bid. Based on what we saw early in the season I think even without the suspension and injuries this team would be squarely on the bubble.
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I agree with this. Look at these teams: Alabama (8-6 SEC), Miami (8-7 ACC), Arkansas (8-7 SEC), Providence (8-6 Big East). This team had a hot start and it wasn't going be be sustainable due to lack of depth even if Coffey and Lynch were still playing. We're probably 8-8 or 9-7 going into tonight's game with Coffey and Lynch and on the bubble.
 


scools12 said:
It this year had produced another NCAA tourney bid there would be no talk of Pitino being fired. The expectations coming off of last year in were probably too high. IMO no way this team was top 15 in the country. More like a borderline top 25.

Either way the injuries and suspension showed how far this program really has to go in year 5 of this regime. Needed everything to go nearly perfect to have a legit chance to meet those high expectations. Some on here think next year will be "great" based on added depth. Simply adding bodies to the roster doesn't guarantee anything. Expecting the 3 freshmen to be big contributors next year is asking a lot. Combine that with the 2 sophomores you have 5 underclassmen in the rotation, Curry coming back from injury and questions regarding what does Stockman offer doesn't seem like much more than a NIT bid at best next year.
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Most non-blue bloods need just about everything to go nearly perfect to be a top 15 team. For instance, Auburn has nine players who average at least 10 minutes a game. Two players out of that nine have missed just one game each. That's it. Texas Tech has 10 players averaging 10 minutes or more. Just one of them hasn't played in all 27 games. The five starters this year for the Gophers have missed a combined 30 games so far. 26 of those have come during the Big Ten schedule.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
I agree with this. Look at these teams: Alabama (8-6 SEC), Miami (8-7 ACC), Arkansas (8-7 SEC), Providence (8-6 Big East). This team had a hot start and it wasn't going be be sustainable due to lack of depth even if Coffey and Lynch were still playing. We're probably 8-8 or 9-7 going into tonight's game with Coffey and Lynch and on the bubble.
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So.... we were going to be weaker than last year with everyone back except Springs in a weaker Big Ten conference. Okay- there is no way either prove or disprove that, but it doesn't make any sense.
 

bga1 said:
Considering that we were 13-3 and 2-1 before the injuries and suspensions (even with the loss of Curry) and we are 1-12 since, I think I have a lot more evidence for my viewpoint than you do for yours. I don't think we would be anywhere near the bubble.

One of the things that has gotten little mention is that even when we were 13-3 - Lynch was playing under a cloud and the rest of the team knew what was in the wind as well. I mentioned that he was playing in a funk and I recall myself and others here discussing how things seemed to not look right after the weird Alabama game in late November. But maybe the downhill slide was already beginning because the team knew about the EEOA investigation into Lynch late in October. Anyone who understands how that board works probably knew that Lynch's days were numbered even back then. They as a team were playing under the same cloud that Reggie was, to a degree. They knew what a factor he was to where the team would go.

So you have to view the season through the understanding of what these players have gone through emotionally, in addition to the sheer loss of manpower. These kids are human and the emotions involved are a factor. I have no doubt that this would have been a great season with out the Lynch issue and the injuries. The guys that we lost made the guys that remain better players. Mason was better when he didn't have to force it and teams couldn't focus on him. Murphy the same.
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I agree with this! I guess everyone looks at things differently. Everyone always looks at where the coach is after 5 years. Is that fair all the time? I personally feel without all the stuff this year pitino's 4th and 5th year were making the tournament, while tubby made tournament 2nd and 3rd year here. His 4th and 5th year were both 6-12 in the big ten. Was everyone calling for his head at that time i dont remember? He wasnt fired and proceeded to make tourney 2 more times. As long as i see things going the right direction, which i do, i feel let's keep pitino and see how things play out, which i know most of you think, but want to see how next year goes first. I understand that. I see bright days ahead.
 

bga1 said:
So.... we were going to be weaker than last year with everyone back except Springs in a weaker Big Ten conference. Okay- there is no way either prove or disprove that, but it doesn't make any sense.
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It's an opinion, it doesn't need proving or disproving. We can have opposite opinions. It makes perfect sense. We were 13-3 (2-1) and the two conference wins were against Rutgers and Illinois. Nobody we played non-conference is still in the top 25. We beat Drake by a point. I don't think we would be in top four of conference if Coffey and Lynch were on the team all season.
 



scools12 said:
This where myself and some others differ from you. You think the team if not for the misfortunes would virtual a lock for the a NCAA bid. Based on what we saw early in the season I think even without the suspension and injuries this team would be squarely on the bubble.
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I for one think team would have made tourney, but i understand many disagree. Im just trying to figure out why people think because a few nights we struggled, drake for sure, that we all just assume thats the way the rest of the season was going to go. There are alot of bad teams out there in big ten. Nothing was for sure, but not sure because we didnt look good in some games that because we struggled against drake that it means we would have struggled in big ten!
 

gophereric30 said:
I for one think team would have made tourney, but i understand many disagree. Im just trying to figure out why people think because a few nights we struggled, drake for sure, that we all just assume thats the way the rest of the season was going to go. There are alot of bad teams out there in big ten. Nothing was for sure, but not sure because we didnt look good in some games that because we struggled against drake that it means we would have struggled in big ten!
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We lost to Miami at home, Arkansas and Nebraska on the road. Didn't Providence had some players sit out the game? Alabama was just an odd game. Yes there are a lot of bad teams in Big 10, but I lean toward a lot of toss up games even with Lynch and Coffey. I just don't think this team would be 10-3 over the last 13 games and in top 4 of conference.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
We lost to Miami at home, Arkansas and Nebraska on the road. Didn't Providence had some players sit out the game? Alabama was just an odd game. Yes there are a lot of bad teams in Big 10, but I lean toward a lot of toss up games even with Lynch and Coffey. I just don't think this team would be 10-3 over the last 13 games and in top 4 of conference.
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yeah, i get it! Everyone just assumes that we would have been mediocre in big ten because we didnt play great in non conference. I can tell ya there are alot of teams out there losing at arkansas and nebraska! Miami is when washington started and felt he needed to shoot 30 times, but its a loss. We were also capable of kicking the crap out of alabama for 30 minutes. Im just saying, we didnt just give up last year when we lost 5 straight in big ten. Don't really want to argue with you because your not exactly wrong, but we were obviously like i said capable of pushing alabama around and also on paper most people would agree we had top 3 in big ten starting lineup.
 

gophereric30 said:
yeah, i get it! Everyone just assumes that we would have been mediocre in big ten because we didnt play great in non conference. I can tell ya there are alot of teams out there losing at arkansas and nebraska! Miami is when washington started and felt he needed to shoot 30 times, but its a loss. We were also capable of kicking the crap out of alabama for 30 minutes. Im just saying, we didnt just give up last year when we lost 5 straight in big ten. Don't really want to argue with you because your not exactly wrong, but we were obviously like i said capable of pushing alabama around and also on paper most people would agree we had top 3 in big ten starting lineup.
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I agree, I also thought the Vikings would be 5-11 this year. That's why they play the games. Looking at most conferences this year most have 1-3 teams that have separated and many muddled in the middle around .500.
 



I really don't understand why so many on this thread are being stubbornly negative about next year. Go pick a new team to cheer for if the thought of next year's lineup is making you depressed. My goodness. I think most of you are forgetting that next year's Big Ten Preseason 1st team Murphy (who will improve again over the offseason) will be joined by a healthy and determined group of Coffee, McBrayer, and Curry. We did not have that healthy core for most of this year. Those four players alone will be tough for any team to defend. Pitino will get a grad-transfer PG to pair with Washington, and BOOM, that team will have huge depth. I don't even care that we haven't seen Oturo and Stockman yet. It won't take much to be light-years better than Konate and Diedhou. I'm not saying that is a preseason top 25 team, but the NIT is the floor next year, not the ceiling.
 

gopherguy15 said:
I really don't understand why so many on this thread are being stubbornly negative about next year. Go pick a new team to cheer for if the thought of next year's lineup is making you depressed. My goodness. I think most of you are forgetting that next year's Big Ten Preseason 1st team Murphy (who will improve again over the offseason) will be joined by a healthy and determined group of Coffee, McBrayer, and Curry. We did not have that healthy core for most of this year. Those four players alone will be tough for any team to defend. Pitino will get a grad-transfer PG to pair with Washington, and BOOM, that team will have huge depth. I don't even care that we haven't seen Oturo and Stockman yet. It won't take much to be light-years better than Konate and Diedhou. I'm not saying that is a preseason top 25 team, but the NIT is the floor next year, not the ceiling.
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We're seeing a pattern of posters with fewer than 100 posts claiming point guards are going to start raining out of the sky and that we're going dancing no matter whether a misspelled Oturu is any good or even alive. :confused:
 

I see no reason to be negative about next year. A deeper team in a potentially weaker conference.. I think why people have some concerns is how often we have played without a identity from the beginning of the regime. Remember, most of the fan base is happy around .500, that is statue territory around here. It is just fine if people want the levels of success they have seen next door and have doubts about this coach being the person to do that. It is a message board, just opinions and very hard to argue against a poor on and off the court record. He got very unlucky with injuries this year but he has to be held responsible for the lack of toughness mentally and the lack of identity 5 years in. Keeping him is the best option for success next year unless someone can tell me who they can get for certain.
 

Bad Gopher said:
We're seeing a pattern of posters with fewer than 100 posts claiming point guards are going to start raining out of the sky and that we're going dancing no matter whether a misspelled Oturu is any good or even alive. :confused:
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Oh Bad Gopher, ruler of Gopherhole, and legendary creator of run-on sentences, please share your wisdom of 11,332 posts to me...

Please also explain how a season ticket holder and a diehard Gopher fan of 30+ years is a poster...
 

builtbadgers said:
I see no reason to be negative about next year. A deeper team in a potentially weaker conference.. I think why people have some concerns is how often we have played without a identity from the beginning of the regime. Remember, most of the fan base is happy around .500, that is statue territory around here. It is just fine if people want the levels of success they have seen next door and have doubts about this coach being the person to do that. It is a message board, just opinions and very hard to argue against a poor on and off the court record. He got very unlucky with injuries this year but he has to be held responsible for the lack of toughness mentally and the lack of identity 5 years in. Keeping him is the best option for success next year unless someone can tell me who they can get for certain.
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I disagree with that. I think there are certain circumstance in which fans are happy with .500 for a season or two. But most want more.
 

builtbadgers said:
I see no reason to be negative about next year. A deeper team in a potentially weaker conference.. I think why people have some concerns is how often we have played without a identity from the beginning of the regime. Remember, most of the fan base is happy around .500, that is statue territory around here. It is just fine if people want the levels of success they have seen next door and have doubts about this coach being the person to do that. It is a message board, just opinions and very hard to argue against a poor on and off the court record. He got very unlucky with injuries this year but he has to be held responsible for the lack of toughness mentally and the lack of identity 5 years in. Keeping him is the best option for success next year unless someone can tell me who they can get for certain.
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Good balanced post. The jury is out on Pitino. He's going to be the coach next year. We have the potential for a really solid team or better. If people want to give on Pitino now, go for it. But it isn't going to help anything.

Bill Musselman is the only coach to achieve a .500 or better career conference record since the 1970's began. It is a tough job. I think Pitino can do it- but he will need support through the ups and downs.
 

builtbadgers said:
I see no reason to be negative about next year. A deeper team in a potentially weaker conference.. I think why people have some concerns is how often we have played without a identity from the beginning of the regime. Remember, most of the fan base is happy around .500, that is statue territory around here. It is just fine if people want the levels of success they have seen next door and have doubts about this coach being the person to do that. It is a message board, just opinions and very hard to argue against a poor on and off the court record. He got very unlucky with injuries this year but he has to be held responsible for the lack of toughness mentally and the lack of identity 5 years in. Keeping him is the best option for success next year unless someone can tell me who they can get for certain.
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I don't disagree with you, I'm just curious as to how you would define this exactly. On the surface, I'd argue that Nate Mason, Jordan Murphy, and Dupree McBrayer have played with mental toughness all year. We have players that have played through injury despite the fact that they're not healthy enough to practice. With this long of a losing streak, and this bad of a roster, I've been impressed by how many games are within 10 points, perhaps we just define mental toughness differently.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
We lost to Miami at home, Arkansas and Nebraska on the road. Didn't Providence had some players sit out the game? Alabama was just an odd game. Yes there are a lot of bad teams in Big 10, but I lean toward a lot of toss up games even with Lynch and Coffey. I just don't think this team would be 10-3 over the last 13 games and in top 4 of conference.
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Your folly in your posts is that you don't leave room for improvement, you assume that they would have flatlined after some poor performances. This was a group of players who played a ton of games together, I'd think it would be likely that they would have gotten stronger throughout the season. I chalk up our poor performances early in the season mostly to foul trouble, although the Drake game was a real head-scratcher. Our horrendously thin front court was the one factor keeping us from a great season. I think we were a lock for the NCAA tournament, but that our chances in any NCAA game would have been small considering that good teams have a way of getting Lynch/Murphy into foul trouble. Depth is king for middling programs, our experience will be pretty low next year, but we'll have depth. I'd guess that we'll have a strong season next year behind Murphy, and our revamped front court. As of this moment, I'll guess 7th in the conference, assuming that we get a warm body to back up IW at PG.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Most non-blue bloods need just about everything to go nearly perfect to be a top 15 team. For instance, Auburn has nine players who average at least 10 minutes a game. Two players out of that nine have missed just one game each. That's it. Texas Tech has 10 players averaging 10 minutes or more. Just one of them hasn't played in all 27 games. The five starters this year for the Gophers have missed a combined 30 games so far. 26 of those have come during the Big Ten schedule.
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Auburn lost two starters to suspension before the season even began. If anything, they are a good example of how a team can lose key players and not let things go off the rails.
 

I have seen defensive breakdowns from a lack of effort. Are you tough enough mentally to always defend. Are you tough enough mentally to never give in.. I have seen Nate lapse many times and use poor body language to lead. It has to be incredibly frustrating but you must be up for it and it comes from the top. No whinning. Murph has really met the call. His laid back demeanor can be misleading but he is all out to win. Dupree, hats off to gutting it out. As a team is my complaint more as a individual and more about establishing a team identity from day one year one as opposed to picking on one injury riddled year. What would people say is the one thing you could pick out about this program after 5 years ? Everyone who built success you could pick out something from day one. Here are some common choices : They are fantastic on defense, what a well disciplined team, that press is relentless, Incredible poise. Great execution. What is that one thing we are known for ? It is a thing you hang your hat on everyday because it is always there and you can build on it everyday and you can recruit to it.
 

gopherguy15 said:
Oh Bad Gopher, ruler of Gopherhole, and legendary creator of run-on sentences, please share your wisdom of 11,332 posts to me...

Please also explain how a season ticket holder and a diehard Gopher fan of 30+ years is a poster...
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They might be occasionally long, but they're not run-on.

Hey, nobody wants guards to rain out of the sky more than I do. If Richard can pull in one of these 5-star players (tying him with Monson and Smith in that category by this point in their tenures), then I'll be more excited than anyone.

You're probably young, but I'm getting up there. I don't have many years left, and I'm going to be impatient from this point forward. Be warned.
 


Cayman said:
I can't find stats for basketball, but at least in football, there really aren't any teams that consistently win a high percentage of close games, so I'm not sure it's a sign of a coaching problem, could just be our opponents hit the big shot more often than we do and we're just weirdly unlucky.
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I did some number crunching. I found that, in college football, teams win 50% of the close games...
 

builtbadgers said:
I have seen defensive breakdowns from a lack of effort. Are you tough enough mentally to always defend. Are you tough enough mentally to never give in.. I have seen Nate lapse many times and use poor body language to lead. It has to be incredibly frustrating but you must be up for it and it comes from the top. No whinning. Murph has really met the call. His laid back demeanor can be misleading but he is all out to win. Dupree, hats off to gutting it out. As a team is my complaint more as a individual and more about establishing a team identity from day one year one as opposed to picking on one injury riddled year. What would people say is the one thing you could pick out about this program after 5 years ? Everyone who built success you could pick out something from day one. Here are some common choices : They are fantastic on defense, what a well disciplined team, that press is relentless, Incredible poise. Great execution. What is that one thing we are known for ? It is a thing you hang your hat on everyday because it is always there and you can build on it everyday and you can recruit to it.
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One of the cures coaches have when there is a lack of hustle is to bench the guy. Benching Mason for......?
 

bizzle22 said:
Auburn lost two starters to suspension before the season even began. If anything, they are a good example of how a team can lose key players and not let things go off the rails.
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Were either of them the returning defensive conference player of the year? Were either as good as Amir? Those are two players we lost, but they aren't the only ones. We also lost Curry and to an extent, McBrayer too, so Auburn isn't really comparable to what the Gophers have had to deal with at all.
 

bizzle22 said:
Auburn lost two starters to suspension before the season even began. If anything, they are a good example of how a team can lose key players and not let things go off the rails.
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Maybe. But once the season started they haven't had any issues. I think it can be easier to lose someone before the season starts than during it. I'm not sure if either one of them are better than Coffey and Lynch.

My point still stands though. Most teams that lose 3 of their top 6 players for the season and another that isn't healthy is going to have big issues.
 

Keyser Söze said:
Were either of them the returning defensive conference player of the year? Were either as good as Amir? Those are two players we lost, but they aren't the only ones. We also lost Curry and to an extent, McBrayer too, so Auburn isn't really comparable to what the Gophers have had to deal with at all.
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When did I compare them to the Gophers? All I said was they lost some key players and have fought through it. And yea, one of them actually put up pretty similar numbers to Coffey as a freshman.
 

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