Last 3 Gophers Coaches: Comparing Their First 3 Years

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SelectionSunday

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It's slow going right now, so thought I'd fill some time comparing our last three coaches. A reminder, this only includes their first three seasons as the Gopher coach. A special thanks to Eric Thrall's website for some of the historical data.

Please note that overall coaching records exclude any games played vs. non-Division I opponents.

DM (1999-2000, 2000-01, 2001-02)
Overall Record: 46-43, 51.7%
Big Ten Record: 18-30, 37.5%
Big Ten Tournament Record: 1-3
NCAA Appearances/Record: 0/0-0
NIT Appearances/Record: 2/2-2
Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers/Home: 10-12, 45.5%
Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers/Road: 0-17
Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers/Neutral: 0-4
Overall Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers: 10-33, 23.3%
Record vs. Wisconsin: 1-5
Record vs. Iowa: 2-4
Record vs. Michigan State: 1-3
Best RPI: #71 (2001-02)
Worst RPI: #114 (1999-2000)

TS (2007-08, 2008-09, 2009-10)
Overall Record: 62-39, 61.4%
Big Ten Record: 26-28, 48.1%
Big Ten Tournament Record: 6-3
NCAA Appearances/Record: 2/0-2
NIT Appearances/Record: 1/0-1
Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers/Home: 8-8, 50%
Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers/Road: 1-12, 7.7%
Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers/Neutral: 5-5, 50%
Overall Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers: 14-25, 35.9%
Record vs. Wisconsin: 3-2
Record vs. Iowa: 4-0
Record vs. Michigan State: 1-7
Best RPI: #42 (2008-09)
Worst RPI: #101 (2007=08)

RP (2013-14, 2014-15, 2015-16)
Overall Record: 49-51, 49%
Big Ten Record: 16-38, 29.6%
Big Ten Tournament Record: 2-3
NCAA Appearances/Record: 0/0-0
NIT Appearances/Record: 1/5-0 (2014 Champions)
Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers/Home: 7-10, 41.2%
Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers/Road: 2-14, 12.5%
Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers/Neutral: 1-6, 14.3%
Overall Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers: 10-30, 25%
Record vs. Wisconsin: 1-5
Record vs. Iowa: 2-3
Record vs. Michigan State: 1-2
Best RPI: #50 (2013-14)
Worst RPI: #257 (2015-16)
 

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Didn't monson go to one NCAA tournament with Grier?
 




Really thought Tubby had something three years in, it's too bad the 09-10 team was never at full strength, just our luck. Crazy how Pitino has the most road wins vs NCAA teams
 



SelectionSunday said:
Is there something you find offensive? Take a chill pill.
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Offended? Absolutely not.

I'm anticipating one page of good discussion and 12 pages of Pitino and tubby bashing. Despite your good hearted attempt at producing quality content to this conversation I think it's headed to the gutter. I didn't help, but my intent was not out of annoyance.
 



bemidjigopher said:
Really thought Tubby had something three years in, it's too bad the 09-10 team was never at full strength, just our luck. Crazy how Pitino has the most road wins vs NCAA teams
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I was actually having a conversation on Twitter a couple weeks back with Marcus Fuller and Damian Johnson, where DJ asserted we would have won the Big Ten in 09-10 if Royce White had been able to play. I'm inclined to agree, not to mention Mbakwe being out. We would have been set for incredible two years if we had those two. But alas, Minnesota sports.
 

I think 2010-11 had potential to be TS' best team, got off to a great start by beating NC and WV while winning Puerto Rico Tip-Off. Went off the rails after that.
 

SelectionSunday said:
I think 2010-11 had potential to be TS' best team, got off to a great start by beating NC and WV while winning Puerto Rico Tip-Off. Went off the rails after that.
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Had to look things up to refresh my memory on that season. Lost Joseph, Walker and Nolen. Just a horrendous finish to the season, losing 10 of the last 11 games. (Side note, Joseph really did have a nice final season (2011-2012) offensively for Oregon. Scored in double figures in every game except one for the Ducks.)
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
Had to look things up to refresh my memory on that season. Lost Joseph, Walker and Nolen. Just a horrendous finish to the season, losing 10 of the last 11 games. (Side note, Joseph really did have a nice final season (2011-2012) offensively for Oregon. Scored in double figures in every game except one for the Ducks.)
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Don't forget losing Justin Cobbs in the offseason and replacing him with Maverick Ahanmisi. We had 3 perfectly respectable point guard options at the end of the previous season and lost them all. Cobbs and Joseph both went on to be first team all-Pac-12 as I recall.

I think Paul Carter also transferred in the 2010 offseason. He was no scrub either.
 



Winasota Gopher said:
Offended? Absolutely not.

I'm anticipating one page of good discussion and 12 pages of Pitino and tubby bashing. Despite your good hearted attempt at producing quality content to this conversation I think it's headed to the gutter. I didn't help, but my intent was not out of annoyance.
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I think it's maybe a chance for us all to put this pointless conversation to bed. I've been one who has always defended Tubby, and most take that to mean that I don't like Pitino, which isn't necessarily true. The reality is that it doesn't matter anymore. Richard Pitino is the Gophers coach and anyone who is a Gopher fan should cheer for him to do well. Doesn't mean we have to agree with everything he does or sugar coat it when things go bad, but any real fan should want to see the team succeed. Only time I get bothered by Tubby bashing these days is when people blame him for any current struggles of the team. It's time to move on. In fact, it was time to move on a while ago. I will not be making any further posts in this thread unless it involves a conversation with no bashing of either coach. Both have done good things, and both have done not-so-good things...no need to re-hash it all.

And to whoever mentioned it above, the season Nolen went down still pains me. That season had so much promise and I really thought we were going to break through and make a run. Miss Paul Carter too. Believe he transferred when his little sister got cancer so he could be closer to her in Louisiana. Really liked him.

No problem with the thread SS. I always love looking at the numbers and appreciate you putting it together. Not much new stuff for us to chatter about right now anyways
 

bizzle22 said:
I think it's maybe a chance for us all to put this pointless conversation to bed. I've been one who has always defended Tubby, and most take that to mean that I don't like Pitino, which isn't necessarily true. The reality is that it doesn't matter anymore. Richard Pitino is the Gophers coach and anyone who is a Gopher fan should cheer for him to do well. Doesn't mean we have to agree with everything he does or sugar coat it when things go bad, but any real fan should want to see the team succeed. Only time I get bothered by Tubby bashing these days is when people blame him for any current struggles of the team. It's time to move on. In fact, it was time to move on a while ago. I will not be making any further posts in this thread unless it involves a conversation with no bashing of either coach. Both have done good things, and both have done not-so-good things...no need to re-hash it all.

And to whoever mentioned it above, the season Nolen went down still pains me. That season had so much promise and I really thought we were going to break through and make a run. Miss Paul Carter too. Believe he transferred when his little sister got cancer so he could be closer to her in Louisiana. Really liked him.

No problem with the thread SS. I always love looking at the numbers and appreciate you putting it together. Not much new stuff for us to chatter about right now anyways
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+1, good points.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


I think Pitino made it to 3 kids faster than Monson but I don't have the stats in front of me.
 

Isn't this a little pointless since they all had different players? Year 4 where each of them are coaching with entirely their own recruits is the only real measuring stick.
 

Otis said:
Isn't this a little pointless since they all had different players? Year 4 where each of them are coaching with entirely their own recruits is the only real measuring stick.
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Fair point, but the bottom line is, you coach the players you have. Certainly in Years 2 and 3, all three coaches were coaching some of the previous regime's recruits, as well as some of their own.

I wouldn't go that far saying Year 4 is the only real measuring stick. There are a lot of measuring sticks. It's probably fair to say we all have our own.
 

Cayman;1231660[B said:
]Don't forget losing Justin Cobbs in the offseason [/B]and replacing him with Maverick Ahanmisi. We had 3 perfectly respectable point guard options at the end of the previous season and lost them all. Cobbs and Joseph both went on to be first team all-Pac-12 as I recall.

I think Paul Carter also transferred in the 2010 offseason. He was no scrub either.
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I will go to my grave believing that losing Cobbs was the single most damaging blow to the Tubby regime. He was a good player playing in a position that went disaster after he left. Hard for me to put White in that place, since his absence was self inflicted. Joseph's situation was more ambiguous in my memory. If Cobbs is around that season does not likely go off the rails when Nolan got hurt and who knows what might have happened during that season and after.
 

Holy Man said:
I will go to my grave believing that losing Cobbs was the single most damaging blow to the Tubby regime. He was a good player playing in a position that went disaster after he left. Hard for me to put White in that place, since his absence was self inflicted. Joseph's situation was more ambiguous in my memory. If Cobbs is around that season does not likely go off the rails when Nolan got hurt and who knows what might have happened during that season and after.
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Hindsight is 50/50. Looking at it now, it's possible you're right. At the time, no one cared that Cobbs left. He was awful as a freshman. Good for him to turning himself into a nice player at Cal.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Hindsight is 50/50. Looking at it now, it's possible you're right. At the time, no one cared that Cobbs left. He was awful as a freshman. Good for him to turning himself into a nice player at Cal.
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Respectfully, that is not true. He was not awful, in fact, he was a solid contributor as a freshman. There were people here who saw his potential. I remember being disappointed/surprised when he left. Maybe didn't see All-Pac 12 potential but certainly potential to be a good 4-year player for the Gophers.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Respectfully, that is not true. He was not awful, in fact, he was a solid contributor as a freshman. There were people here who saw his potential. I remember being disappointed/surprised when he left. Maybe didn't see All-Pac 12 potential but certainly potential to be a good 4-year player for the Gophers.
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His freshman stats were nearly identical if not slightly worse than Maverick Ahanmisi:

Cobbs: MPG: 10.7, PPG: 2.1, FG%: 33%, 3pt%: 18%

Ahanmisi: MPG: 10.6, PPG: 2.1, FG%: 37%, 3pt%: 30%
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
His freshman stats were nearly identical if not slightly worse than Maverick Ahanmisi:

Cobbs: MPG: 10.7, PPG: 2.1, FG%: 33%, 3pt%: 18%

Ahanmisi: MPG: 10.6, PPG: 2.1, FG%: 37%, 3pt%: 30%
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Out of curioisity, do you look at anything other than stats to determine whether there is long-term potential for a player? How they play throughout the course of a season? Disposition? How they match up athletically/-skill wise vs. similar competition? Do they look overmatched?

I would use (currently) Dupree McBrayer as an example. I was surprised how many people here didn't see much potential from him last season. What I saw even while he was throwing up a bunch of bricks at the basket was a versatile player with the potential to make a lot of winning plays for (hopefully) a winning basketball team. He's a really good player, and he hasn't anywhere near scratched the surface yet. At worst, he's going to be an Austin Hollins type player. I'll take those guys any day.

I think sometimes we get too caught up in stats, and if a guy doesn't have the big numbers as a freshman (i.e. Jordan Murphy), well, the guy's not going to be a significant contributor over the course of his career, so if they transfer, no big deal. The Jordan Murphys are rare, unless you play for Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina, etc.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Hindsight is 50/50. Looking at it now, it's possible you're right. At the time, no one cared that Cobbs left. He was awful as a freshman. Good for him to turning himself into a nice player at Cal.
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Not exactly hindsight. I'm with Selection, I did care that he left. Did I see all conference, no, but it was not difficult to see that he could be a good player. Strong, quick, etc. Had a lot more raw material than Mav did. I don't recall the circumstances of his leaving clearly, although part of it was personal and part of it playing time, in my foggy memory. When you go from three points or point capable guards to none in less than a season, it's not hard to predict bad things.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Out of curioisity, do you look at anything other than stats to determine whether there is long-term potential for a player? How they play throughout the course of a season? Disposition? How they match up athletically/-skill wise vs. similar competition? Do they look overmatched?

I would use (currently) Dupree McBrayer as an example. I was surprised how many people here didn't see much potential from him last season. What I saw even while he was throwing up a bunch of bricks at the basket was a versatile player with the potential to make a lot of winning plays for (hopefully) a winning basketball team. He's a really good player. I think, at worst, he's going to be an Austin Hollins type player. I'll take those guys any day.

I think sometimes we get too caught up in stats, and if a guy doesn't have the big numbers as a freshman (i.e. Jordan Murphy), well, the guy's not going to be a significant contributor over the course of his career, so if they transfer, no big deal. The Jordan Murphys are rare, unless you play for Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina, etc.
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Absolutely I watch the games and look at more than just stats. I'm with you 100% on McBrayer. But I obviously love stats, and it backs up an opinion better than "I saw this, or I saw that".

I really didn't see what you or Holy Man saw from Cobbs. I don't think I was in the minority either. I remember him really struggling to bring the ball up and running the offense, turning the ball over, and struggling to hit a shot. To be fair, a lot of Freshman are like that, and it's one of the reasons why the Gophers struggled so much last year. I thought Cobbs would be at best a backup PG, and didn't see the success coming that he had at Cal. That's a similar career to what Maverick had, and they both had similar Freshman years. Cobbs obviously worked hard, became very good, and proved me wrong.
 

I remember, cannot remember which game it was, during the Big 10 Cobbs blew past his defender and made a contested layup that made me go "woah, this kid has some athletic ability". Pair that to me seeing him shooting in Williams Arena a couple times when I played pickup basketball late at night with the managers and our buddies, I always thought Cobb was going to be a pretty decent ball player.
 

Holy Man said:
I will go to my grave believing that losing Cobbs was the single most damaging blow to the Tubby regime. He was a good player playing in a position that went disaster after he left. Hard for me to put White in that place, since his absence was self inflicted. Joseph's situation was more ambiguous in my memory. If Cobbs is around that season does not likely go off the rails when Nolan got hurt and who knows what might have happened during that season and after.
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Agree with the Cobb view. With the transfers/injuries, didn't we have Hoffarber playing point the last dozen games or so? I liked Blake, and was happy that he was here, but at PG? Not his strength.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Out of curioisity, do you look at anything other than stats to determine whether there is long-term potential for a player? How they play throughout the course of a season? Disposition? How they match up athletically/-skill wise vs. similar competition? Do they look overmatched?

I would use (currently) Dupree McBrayer as an example. I was surprised how many people here didn't see much potential from him last season. What I saw even while he was throwing up a bunch of bricks at the basket was a versatile player with the potential to make a lot of winning plays for (hopefully) a winning basketball team. He's a really good player, and he hasn't anywhere near scratched the surface yet. At worst, he's going to be an Austin Hollins type player. I'll take those guys any day.

I think sometimes we get too caught up in stats, and if a guy doesn't have the big numbers as a freshman (i.e. Jordan Murphy), well, the guy's not going to be a significant contributor over the course of his career, so if they transfer, no big deal. The Jordan Murphys are rare, unless you play for Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina, etc.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Most freshmen in the BT don't get very many minutes and don't look very good. It's especially difficult to jump in at pg for a few spotty minutes. Stats aren't enough to tell you about a freshman's potential when they play so few minutes.
 

Unregistered User said:
Agree with the Cobb view. With the transfers/injuries, didn't we have Hoffarber playing point the last dozen games or so? I liked Blake, and was happy that he was here, but at PG? Not his strength.
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That was a very promising and eventually bad year. We beat #10 Louisville and were looking really good, then Joseph transferred and Nolan either was injured or went on academic probation. And we were left with Maverick and Hoffarber. We lost like 10 or 11 games in a row after that and it was awful.
 

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