Pitino on biggest challenges at Minnesota

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Saber said:
Man... a lot of people in this thread flipping out because the coach tried to give an honest answer.
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I didn't read anyone flipping out. We just don't think all that much of his answers.
 

Talk about lowering the bar....maybe the Gophers should drop out of the B1G and join the Summit League.
 

ethomasp31 said:
Talk about lowering the bar....maybe the Gophers should drop out of the B1G and join the Summit League.
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Well, they lost to 2 Summit League teams at home and beat another by 3 at home, so I would peg them as middle of the pack in that conference.
 

I'd advise people to actually listen to the interview. Earlier in the interview the following things are discussed.

-Talking with Izzo and discussing similar recruiting challenges (alluding to the weather with National recruits as well as not cheating in recruiting)
- Mike Grimm tries to compare Penn State and Minnesota multiple times and Pitino has none of that. Pitino mentions Pat Chambers doing a good job, but that he just doesn't have the resources and says PSU is a tough place to recruit because kids in that area are going to Villanova. Pitino instead compares his situation to Turgeon at Maryland who misses the tournament his first 3 years then has Trimble and has really got that program going.

Basically the last question of the interview is Grimm asking if the Vikings playoff game at TCF will help recruiting in any way. Pitino says no and asks Grimm to guess why from the perspective of a recruiter. Pitino then mentions the Vikings/Giants game where Al Michaels was constanly mentioning how cold it was and it kept being brought up because Michelle Tafoya lives here. Pitino says they don't mention all the great things about the city and just mention the cold. Grimm then asks if that is the biggest challenge to recruiting to Minnesota and Pitino says no, it's the location or the facilities. He says we only produce 2,3 maybe 4 kids a year and can't get anyone from the Dakota's. He then says guys from Wisconsin go to Wisconsin or Marquette and guys from Iowa go to Iowa or Iowa State. He then says that he doesn't acceptable to lose anyone to Iowa or Wisconsin and the only kid like that has been Alex I., but that was a situation where they ran out of scholarships. When you listen to the entire interview and understand the context in which Pitino is answering the questions, it's pretty clear that he would say location was a major obstacle at Wisconsin or Iowa State or any other successful MidWest school. It's clearly from the perspective of someone who has coached at Louisville and Florida and is not something to make a big deal out of. Finally he does mention that Nebraska has built the facilities to "make up for that" (location) and that we are on our way to doing that as well.

If you were going to be upset about anything in the interview, it would have probably been the part where he mentions that they need the fans with them like they were against Michigan State. He says fans sometimes have the attitude that they will show up/get involved when the team is good, but that it doesn't work like that and that showing up/getting involved leads to a better product. Then at another point in the interview he kind of contradicts this by saying he doesn't blame people for not showing up because he has too much respect for people's time and money, so he's not exactly tone deaf here either. I think the strong counter you could make here is that his second year ended at home this way: bad loss to Northwestern, blowout loss to biggest rival Wisconsin, and bad loss to Penn State...he then starts year 3 with a number of poor performances at home. It' s a tough ask to get people to come out and get engaged when the track record of poor performances stretches that long.
 

EG#9 said:
I'd advise people to actually listen to the interview. Earlier in the interview the following things are discussed.

-Talking with Izzo and discussing similar recruiting challenges (alluding to the weather with National recruits as well as not cheating in recruiting)
- Mike Grimm tries to compare Penn State and Minnesota multiple times and Pitino has none of that. Pitino mentions Pat Chambers doing a good job, but that he just doesn't have the resources and says PSU is a tough place to recruit because kids in that area are going to Villanova. Pitino instead compares his situation to Turgeon at Maryland who misses the tournament his first 3 years then has Trimble and has really got that program going.

Basically the last question of the interview is Grimm asking if the Vikings playoff game at TCF will help recruiting in any way. Pitino says no and asks Grimm to guess why from the perspective of a recruiter. Pitino then mentions the Vikings/Giants game where Al Michaels was constanly mentioning how cold it was and it kept being brought up because Michelle Tafoya lives here. Pitino says they don't mention all the great things about the city and just mention the cold. Grimm then asks if that is the biggest challenge to recruiting to Minnesota and Pitino says no, it's the location or the facilities. He says we only produce 2,3 maybe 4 kids a year and can't get anyone from the Dakota's. He then says guys from Wisconsin go to Wisconsin or Marquette and guys from Iowa go to Iowa or Iowa State. He then says that he doesn't acceptable to lose anyone to Iowa or Wisconsin and the only kid like that has been Alex I., but that was a situation where they ran out of scholarships. When you listen to the entire interview and understand the context in which Pitino is answering the questions, it's pretty clear that he would say location was a major obstacle at Wisconsin or Iowa State or any other successful MidWest school. It's clearly from the perspective of someone who has coached at Louisville and Florida and is not something to make a big deal out of. Finally he does mention that Nebraska has built the facilities to "make up for that" (location) and that we are on our way to doing that as well.

If you were going to be upset about anything in the interview, it would have probably been the part where he mentions that they need the fans with them like they were against Michigan State. He says fans sometimes have the attitude that they will show up/get involved when the team is good, but that it doesn't work like that and that showing up/getting involved leads to a better product. Then at another point in the interview he kind of contradicts this by saying he doesn't blame people for not showing up because he has too much respect for people's time and money, so he's not exactly tone deaf here either. I think the strong counter you could make here is that his second year ended at home this way: bad loss to Northwestern, blowout loss to biggest rival Wisconsin, and bad loss to Penn State...he then starts year 3 with a number of poor performances at home. It' s a tough ask to get people to come out and get engaged when the track record of poor performances stretches that long.
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Thanks, EG. That's better...although I don't totally agree with everything - including that we can't get any kids out of the Dakotas. That feels defeatist. It's important to remember that Joe Krabbenhoft was sung the Rouser in his crib and should have been easy pickings for the Gophers, but the deplorable state of the program at the time caused him to look elsewhere.
 


Bad Gopher said:
Thanks, EG. That's better...although I don't totally agree with everything - including that we can't get any kids out of the Dakotas. That feels defeatist. It's important to remember that Joe Krabbenhoft was sung the Rouser in his crib and should have been easy pickings for the Gophers, but the deplorable state of the program at the time caused him to look elsewhere.
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I didn't get that impression at all. He was stating that their wasn't D-1 talent in the Dakota's. You could certainly argue that point with a Krabbehnhoft or a Miller or a Colton Iverson, or a Jeff Boschee(sp?), but I don't believe their has been a kid on the national radar out of the Dakota's since Pitino has coached at Minnesota.
 

station19 said:
Whatever..

you are all over the place.
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I’m sorry if I confused you. My consistent position for several years has been that I believe that Minnesota can be completive in the revenue sports. For the first 50 or 60 years of the football program, we were completive, having won seven national titles. The problem, as I see it, is that the University in the 60’s made a conscious decision to de-emphasize the revenue sports, and once that was done, it became extremely difficult to turn things around. I’m encouraged, though, because I believe that President Kaler is committed to doing just that, as demonstrated, in part, by his support of the Academic Village.
The basis for my belief is that Minnesota academically has much to offer as does the Twin Cities area. Admission standards at Minnesota have become very competitive and graduation rates have improved dramatically. The Twin Cities, moreover, has the lowest unemployment rate of any metropolitan area in the country and within the past year it has been rated highest in the country for quality of life. And these are just a couple of the areas in which the Twin Cities have excelled.
With a renewed commitment to the revenue sports, and the quality of the university and the metropolitan area, we should be able to overcome climate issues. There are a number of successful basketball and football programs that have far less to offer academically and environmentally that have cold climates. And I continue to believe that the fact that we are the only D1 program in the state, in which I believe the talent pool has improved dramatically over the years, gives us a recruiting advantage. Our problem has been that we have not had the program success to keep the state’s elite talent home on a consistent basis, but Pitino may be making progress in that regard. Moreover, long term, we should be able to attract out of area talent.
 

Saber said:
Man... a lot of people in this thread flipping out because the coach tried to give an honest answer. This is the whole reason 'coach speak' exists and coaches and players within the sport so often speak in meaningless platitudes.

I know the team is struggling at the moment, I'm as frustrated as anyone. But this stuff isn't anything to get worked up about. Just be happy that he's willing to give honest answers. I've always appreciated in listening to his post-game interviews on the way home from the Barn that he's refreshingly honest and willing to give more than just fluff answers to his interview questions. I much prefer that to the meaningless drivel that comes out of the mouths of so many coaches in interviews.
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+19
 

vagopher said:
I’m sorry if I confused you. My consistent position for several years has been that I believe that Minnesota can be completive in the revenue sports. For the first 50 or 60 years of the football program, we were completive, having won seven national titles. The problem, as I see it, is that the University in the 60’s made a conscious decision to de-emphasize the revenue sports, and once that was done, it became extremely difficult to turn things around. I’m encouraged, though, because I believe that President Kaler is committed to doing just that, as demonstrated, in part, by his support of the Academic Village.
The basis for my belief is that Minnesota academically has much to offer as does the Twin Cities area. Admission standards at Minnesota have become very competitive and graduation rates have improved dramatically. The Twin Cities, moreover, has the lowest unemployment rate of any metropolitan area in the country and within the past year it has been rated highest in the country for quality of life. And these are just a couple of the areas in which the Twin Cities have excelled.
With a renewed commitment to the revenue sports, and the quality of the university and the metropolitan area, we should be able to overcome climate issues. There are a number of successful basketball and football programs that have far less to offer academically and environmentally that have cold climates. And I continue to believe that the fact that we are the only D1 program in the state, in which I believe the talent pool has improved dramatically over the years, gives us a recruiting advantage. Our problem has been that we have not had the program success to keep the state’s elite talent home on a consistent basis, but Pitino may be making progress in that regard. Moreover, long term, we should be able to attract out of area talent.
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You responded to my comment about driving distances. I agree with much of what you are saying, but it is beyond our original conversation.

Remind me to get back to this when I am more wide awake.
 



Apparently now one of the biggest challenges is beating a program of Penn State's stature. That's 3 straight losses to the Nittany Lions.
 


Recruiting philosophy means something. And it means something when a coach, hired, in part, because of his recruiting hustle dismisses five states and two provinces. Almost three years into the Minnesota gig, Pitino finds problems associated with recruiting the upper Midwest (location, distance, a paucity of talent and competition from Wisconsin, Iowa and Iowa State). That, I understand.

Thanks to Grimm’s question we know the recruiting pipeline starts somewhere outside the Upper Midwest and ends at a new Dinkytown practice facility. I don’t care where players come from (I’m actually glad Pitino didn’t use the old “we need to close the borders” line). Pitino’s answer was not off the cuff and was a pretty clear statement that the majority of his team will come from outside the region. What I don’t know is the philosophical “where” and the practical “how”.
 

Ignatius L Hoops said:
Recruiting philosophy means something. And it means something when a coach, hired, in part, because of his recruiting hustle dismisses five states and two provinces. Almost three years into the Minnesota gig, Pitino finds problems associated with recruiting the upper Midwest (location, distance, a paucity of talent and competition from Wisconsin, Iowa and Iowa State).
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Like you, I don't care about a recruit's geographical origin, but I agree that dismissing the recruiting value of large amounts of territory is problematic. Tubby was criticized for not offering Nate Wolters or Mike Muscala, two local kids who were drafted and played in the NBA, and from Pitino's remarks we could infer that he would be likely to do the same. A coaching staff from a lesser program has to be a little more proactive in recruiting than just reading the major services' rankings and chasing around the same kids that other top programs are chasing.

When Fran McCaffery recruited Aaron White, there weren't any "oohs and ahs" like there were when he signed nationally ranked Woodbury and Gesell but White had a much better career than either of those guys. I'm pretty confident that neither Dorsey nor McBreyer will have Wolters' career and the only front court player recruited by Minnesota in the last ten years who might surpass Muscala's career is Murphy.
 



cjbfbp said:
Like you, I don't care about a recruit's geographical origin, but I agree that dismissing the recruiting value of large amounts of territory is problematic. Tubby was criticized for not offering Nate Wolters or Mike Muscala, two local kids who were drafted and played in the NBA, and from Pitino's remarks we could infer that he would be likely to do the same. A coaching staff from a lesser program has to be a little more proactive in recruiting than just reading the major services' rankings and chasing around the same kids that other top programs are chasing.

When Fran McCaffery recruited Aaron White, there weren't any "oohs and ahs" like there were when he signed nationally ranked Woodbury and Gesell but White had a much better career than either of those guys. I'm pretty confident that neither Dorsey nor McBreyer will have Wolters' career and the only front court player recruited by Minnesota in the last ten years who might surpass Muscala's career is Murphy.
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How is it that the entire rest of the high major world missed on Wolters?

I think the Michael Hurt signing is perhaps an indication that Pitino will not overlook kids locally that are a bit under the radar or are more rooted in basketball skills than pure athleticism. While Hurt had offers, it's not like he was a no-brainer take when Pitino offered. At the moment- there are people the already think Pitino got a steal in Hurt.

Still, I am happy that we have a coach this is going to recruit nationally for the best he can get rather than just hope that the local mosquito district produces enough loyal home boys.
 

cjbfbp said:
Like you, I don't care about a recruit's geographical origin, but I agree that dismissing the recruiting value of large amounts of territory is problematic. Tubby was criticized for not offering Nate Wolters or Mike Muscala, two local kids who were drafted and played in the NBA, and from Pitino's remarks we could infer that he would be likely to do the same. A coaching staff from a lesser program has to be a little more proactive in recruiting than just reading the major services' rankings and chasing around the same kids that other top programs are chasing.

When Fran McCaffery recruited Aaron White, there weren't any "oohs and ahs" like there were when he signed nationally ranked Woodbury and Gesell but White had a much better career than either of those guys. I'm pretty confident that neither Dorsey nor McBreyer will have Wolters' career and the only front court player recruited by Minnesota in the last ten years who might surpass Muscala's career is Murphy.
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I get what you are trying to say but I think it is impossible to prevent this from happening. There are always going to be guys that are under-recruited. The comparison to Aaron White isn't fair either as he was recruited a lot more than Wolters and Muscala out of High School. For every "under the radar" type of guy that has a great career, there are many more who turn out to be average or worse.

Also, in 2009 we signed Cobbs, White, Williams, and Mbakwe so there wasn't room for either one of those guys anyways. If Tubby had signed Muscala over White or Mbakwe we all would have been pretty upset.
 

bga1 said:
How is it that the entire rest of the high major world missed on Wolters?

I think the Michael Hurt signing is perhaps an indication that Pitino will not overlook kids locally that are a bit under the radar or are more rooted in basketball skills than pure athleticism. While Hurt had offers, it's not like he was a no-brainer take when Pitino offered. At the moment- there are people the already think Pitino got a steal in Hurt.

Still, I am happy that we have a coach this is going to recruit nationally for the best he can get rather than just hope that the local mosquito district produces enough loyal home boys.
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Because he wasn't right under their nose, like he was ours. There were many voices on this forum and elsewhere who knew what Wolters could do and were advocating recruiting him.

Hurt is a good example of the type of player we need to go after.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Because he wasn't right under their nose, like he was ours.
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That doesn't matter at all. Most coaches will recruit anywhere they can find a good player. Somehow, the entire world knew about Joel Przybilla and Rick Rickert despite them being in outstate Minnesota.
 

dpodoll68 said:
That doesn't matter at all. Most coaches will recruit anywhere they can find a good player. Somehow, the entire world knew about Joel Przybilla and Rick Rickert despite them being in outstate Minnesota.
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:clap: Good one. I hope you're not serious. They were Top 5 nationally rated players.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Because he wasn't right under their nose, like he was ours. There were many voices on this forum and elsewhere who knew what Wolters could do and were advocating recruiting him.

Hurt is a good example of the type of player we need to go after.
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Serious question --- don't most of these guys play AAU basketball in the summer? Seems like recruiting boundaries would be far more blurry than before? Or do the caliber guys you are talking about not play?
 

golfing18now said:
Serious question --- don't most of these guys play AAU basketball in the summer? Seems like recruiting boundaries would be far more blurry than before? Or do the caliber guys you are talking about not play?
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They play, not every AAU squad is elite even crappy fringe varsity players play AAU, like AAA hockey as long as mom and pop are willing to cut a check there's a team for you.
 

bemidjigopher said:
They play, not every AAU squad is elite even crappy fringe varsity players play AAU, like AAA hockey as long as mom and pop are willing to cut a check there's a team for you.
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What he said.

I guess the disturbing part to me is that everyone seems to want to come up with excuses why we can't succeed - why we can't scout, evaluate, coach and develop. If it were truly this impossible, nobody would ever succeed, but some programs do, some in less advantageous situations than the U of M. It pains me to hear Pitino initially claim that there are so many advantages to setting up shop in Minneapolis, and now that there's been some tough sledding, it's back to the same things we heard from Tubby and Monson about how you just can't succeed and win at Minnesota.
 

Bad Gopher said:
:clap: Good one. I hope you're not serious. They were Top 5 nationally rated players.
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Serious as a heart attack. If a guy is held to be worthy of being a high major player, he will get high major offers, whether he's in Manhattan or Timbuktu. Geography is relevant insofar as players with geographical proximity are more likely to sign with you than not. As far as going out and finding players, it is 100% irrelevant. Your argument is that we should somehow "know more" about Nate Wolters than, say, Providence or Cal, because he's an hour away from our campus and thousands of miles from theirs, which is a ridiculous argument on its face. It's not 1940. If a player is good, people will find him. Wolters turned out to be better than most people thought. That's on the entirety of high major basketball coaches, not just Tubby Smith.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Serious as a heart attack. If a guy is held to be worthy of being a high major player, he will get high major offers, whether he's in Manhattan or Timbuktu. Geography is relevant insofar as players with geographical proximity are more likely to sign with you than not. As far as going out and finding players, it is 100% irrelevant. Your argument is that we should somehow "know more" about Nate Wolters than, say, Providence or Cal, because he's an hour away from our campus and thousands of miles from theirs, which is a ridiculous argument on its face. It's not 1940. If a player is good, people will find him. Wolters turned out to be better than most people thought. That's on the entirety of high major basketball coaches, not just Tubby Smith.
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Like it or not, I have some memories of past days, like when Dusty Rychart scored more than 40 ppg as a HS senior, yet Minnesota was his only high major offer because, as everyone knows, the competition in Grand Rapids' conference is inferior. Same crap with Nate Wolters - I guess he was too white or too from St. Cloud or something. Ben Woodside was definitely too white, because we went with Rico Tucker on account of that everyone knows that some small white point guard from Albert Lea has no chance of competing against Big Ten teams. These and others were all well known commodities but were dismissed because, what are you going to believe, me or your eyes? Sh!t, when we played Southwest Minnesota State several years ago, Garrett Callahan was the best player on the court.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I get what you are trying to say but I think it is impossible to prevent this from happening. There are always going to be guys that are under-recruited. The comparison to Aaron White isn't fair either as he was recruited a lot more than Wolters and Muscala out of High School. For every "under the radar" type of guy that has a great career, there are many more who turn out to be average or worse.

Also, in 2009 we signed Cobbs, White, Williams, and Mbakwe so there wasn't room for either one of those guys anyways. If Tubby had signed Muscala over White or Mbakwe we all would have been pretty upset.
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You're right that White was a bit more highly recruited than either Wolters or Muscala but before he committed to Iowa, he took three visits: St Bonaventure, Duquesne, and Iowa. Apparently, he wasn't thinking at the time that he was a high major recruit either. Remember that the Iowa program at the time was a significantly more forlorn destination than Minnesota is now.

I realize that there are no guarantees in this business, but I think a coach has to be careful about recruiting just based on expectations of "upside." Neither of our centers appears to be capable of playing at this level in their second year and even McBreyer in his first year is less ready than I anticipated even after a prep year. There's nothing wrong with recruiting for the 10th to 13th spots on the roster. Here's where you can sign players who aren't much regarded by national rankings but you have observed that they know how to play, are fundamentally sound, have some talent and skills, and play with competitive spirit. You probably can't expect to get Wolters or Muscala, but you may get a player like Iowa's Nicholas Baer who is contributing a lot more to his team than several of our players are right now.
 

cjbfbp said:
You're right that White was a bit more highly recruited than either Wolters or Muscala but before he committed to Iowa, he took three visits: St Bonaventure, Duquesne, and Iowa. Apparently, he wasn't thinking at the time that he was a high major recruit either. Remember that the Iowa program at the time was a significantly more forlorn destination than Minnesota is now.

I realize that there are no guarantees in this business, but I think a coach has to be careful about recruiting just based on expectations of "upside." Neither of our centers appears to be capable of playing at this level in their second year and even McBreyer in his first year is less ready than I anticipated even after a prep year. There's nothing wrong with recruiting for the 10th to 13th spots on the roster. Here's where you can sign players who aren't much regarded by national rankings but you have observed that they know how to play, are fundamentally sound, have some talent and skills, and play with competitive spirit. You probably can't expect to get Wolters or Muscala, but you may get a player like Iowa's Nicholas Baer who is contributing a lot more to his team than several of our players are right now.
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Yet, Bo Ryan accepted Jordan Taylor onto his roster largely based on upside. Again, it comes down to how good you are at evaluating players and then developing them.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Yet, Bo Ryan accepted Jordan Taylor onto his roster largely based on upside. Again, it comes down to how good you are at evaluating players and then developing them.
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Being a Rivals top 150 player also may have helped Bo Ryan deal with signing him. Real genius that Bo Ryan. Taking a leap of faith on a highly rated 3 star recruit.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Like it or not, I have some memories of past days, like when Dusty Rychart scored more than 40 ppg as a HS senior, yet Minnesota was his only high major offer because, as everyone knows, the competition in Grand Rapids' conference is inferior. Same crap with Nate Wolters - I guess he was too white or too from St. Cloud or something. Ben Woodside was definitely too white, because we went with Rico Tucker on account of that everyone knows that some small white point guard from Albert Lea has no chance of competing against Big Ten teams. These and others were all well known commodities but were dismissed because, what are you going to believe, me or your eyes? Sh!t, when we played Southwest Minnesota State several years ago, Garrett Callahan was the best player on the court.
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Dusty Rychart was a walk-on.

I assume you're going to post this same rant on the message board of every other high major team, given that every single one of them missed on all of these players as well?

And the race bullsh1t is disgusting and beneath you. How did Mike Miller and Jeff Boschee end up at major programs being white guys from the rural Midwest?
 

dpodoll68 said:
Dusty Rychart was a walk-on. I assume you're going to post this same rant on the message board of every other high major team, given that every single one of them missed on all of these players as well?
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If only Bo Ryan liked white players more. He would have offered them all since they were right next door. Ugh. Why doesn't Wisconsin sign more white kids?!?!
 

Bad Gopher said:
What he said.

I guess the disturbing part to me is that everyone seems to want to come up with excuses why we can't succeed - why we can't scout, evaluate, coach and develop. If it were truly this impossible, nobody would ever succeed, but some programs do, some in less advantageous situations than the U of M. It pains me to hear Pitino initially claim that there are so many advantages to setting up shop in Minneapolis, and now that there's been some tough sledding, it's back to the same things we heard from Tubby and Monson about how you just can't succeed and win at Minnesota.
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One of the things that I enjoy the most about this site is connecting with other Gopher fans that are passionate about Gopher basketball and following the recruiting battles, development of players, etc. etc. etc.

The flip side of that passion is we can devote 100 posts and counting on a pretty innocuous comment made in response to a direct question asked of him. I'll always appreciate his honesty about the state of the program and his players. It is so much better than the alternative.

I just don't see his comments from the other night on this topic as excuse making.
 

scher215 said:
Being a Rivals top 150 player also may have helped Bo Ryan deal with signing him. Real genius that Bo Ryan. Taking a leap of faith on a highly rated 3 star recruit.
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Ryan, meanwhile, has surely passed on other 3-star recruits that he thought wouldn't fit or develop as well. Just like the middle rounds of the NFL draft, how well your 3-star players pan out has a lot to do with your success.

Monson clearly missed on Taylor, but I remember JohnnyGopher posting that, when Tubby came in he declined to try to steal him away from Wisconsin because he really didn't think he'd amount to much being such a suspect shooter at the time.
 

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