Pitino on biggest challenges at Minnesota

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howeda7

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The last segment on Pitino's show tonight they asked him about the Vikings game on Sunday and if it was good exposure. He said no because all they will do is talk about how cold it is. That part I get.

Grimm then asked if that was the biggest challenge, the weather. Pitino said no. It's location. Minnesota doesn't produce enough recruits. Only 2-3 per year. Nowhere is 'drive-able.' And you can 'never' get a recruit out of ND or SD. And what's to the north, I don't even know. Hard to get a recruit out of Wisconsin or Iowa, etc.

The last part rubbed me the wrong way a bit. First, having only one D1 school in a state with 5 million people is an advantage and he seems dismissive of it. Many years MN produces more than 2-3 D1 caliber players.

Second, we've had recent players out of SD (Iverson) and Canada (Walker). Iowa has had others. Not to mention guys like Jeff Boschee, Mike Miller etc.

He also mentioned facilities, which I get. But in general, it came off dismissive of the local regional talent base and a bit 'woe is me' in what was otherwise a good show.
 

I caught that part of the show and yes something seemed off kilter. Pitino must really enjoy those Gopher coaches caravans.
 

That is disappointing. I'd like to hear the context of the comments because with Pitino's experience being largely at Louisville, Florida, and FIU it's easy to understand how both the weather and local talent base pale in comparison. That said, a school like Iowa State has had a ton of success lately with virtually no in state recruits and similar weather. Iowa has had more success than us lately, but have done so largely on the backs of a couple lightly recruited kids (Aaron White and Roy Marble Jr) while this years team is lead by local talent. Their most recent recruiting classes have been included a number of kids who were plan B, C, or lower for Pitino...so it will be interesting to see how those kids develop in comparison to Pitino's guys. Even at Wisconsin, the Badgers have taken a couple Minnesota kids in recent year without Gopher offers (Dearring and the more successful Bruesewitz) and according to some in the know we could have had Alex Illikainen as well.

Without making this post longer, if Pitino is saying that the local talent base and/or the weather is a big challenge towards becoming elite, I get it. I don't buy either of those things being as legitimate excuses for not winning in the Big Ten.
 

Thanks for posting. I wish I had heard the segment. Not having heard this segment, you did say that Grimm asked what the biggest challenge was. And Pitino is usually pretty honest with his interviews, which I appreciate.

No doubt that there are some geographical challenges to recruiting here, but there are also some significant advantages, one of the biggest being the only D1 school with a major metropolitan area, as you note.

One thing I don't agree though is that we don't produce enough D1 talent. I'm not one of those guys who thinks we can go all "Pride on Ice" and only recruit in-state, but this state has produced and is producing enough talent that if we sealed the borders and got our pick of players, we would have enough talent to produce a top-half conference team. The days of this state producing only a Kevin Lynch, or a John Bryant or a Bob Martin and not much else are long gone. And I'm not even talking about years where we had "The Big 3" (plus JP). Our state is producing much more talent than that. The key is identifying who those guys are going to be, and developing them. For instance, this year we essentially took Curry over Nikko, who is going to Missouri. It's not often we have in-state kids going to Mizzou. So in this case, we could have arguably gotten all 3 kids in-state. Obviously we could have done that in 2014, and easily could in 2017. So that's three straight classes representing the three years Pitino is here, and we could have only signed MN kids and have fielded a great team (on paper, and I am NOT saying he should have had the Big 3, that wasn't realistic).

After 2017, go grab Tre, then Matthew, etc. Develop these guys, keep them in in the program and all is good. Supplement with the occasional Murphy/Dorsey/Curry - all very nice additions, all of whom he already proved he could get to convince to come here from out of state, and a long ways from MN.

It's not the state of Minnesota's fault that we (at least for now) appear to have recruited two big men who aren't B1G ready two years in. We can't sign everyone from 2017 - but there is a good chance that a guy like El-Amin, or Reuvers, or Davison, or Wright, or Moar, or John, etc. will have a very good college career. The key is to sign the couple of guys that will, and not miss on them.

Go Gophers!!
 

For my money, I'd still rather establish pipelines in other talent-rich parts of the country that have more options. If in a good year, you only have two or three options here....it's hard to "lock down the border" in that situation. Kids may want to leave the State regardless of who is recruiting to the University for whatever reason. I also tend to think we overvalue kids that grow up in Minnesota due to familiarity or whatever. In the example cited above of Nikko vs Curry....Curry is a much higher rated player and had a much more impressive offer list than Nikko. (I realize that has nothing to do with their collegiate career and no disrespect to Nikko was intended)

In general, I think Pitino has done a very good job recruiting the State of Minnesota to this point. However, I can understand his sentiment.
 


I've been a strong supporter of Pitino, but this concerns me greatly. Minnesota is cold, but so are many other schools with successful basketball programs. Plus Minnesota has many offsetting assets, such as quality of life, that I would expect a Minnesota head coach to emphasize. And, in my opinion, Minnesota in the last few years, and in the foreseeable future, has enough local talent to make our program competitive. If we could land Trey Jones, Gary Trent, Jr. and Matthew Hurt, I think we would be in pretty good shape. That's in addition to some pretty solid recruits coming in next year, including those who have red shirted. That's not to say that out of state recruits are not equally important, but I think we have enough to offer in terms of amenities and academics to overcome any cold weather concerns. And if Pitino disagrees, then perhaps he should move on.
 


Grab a map. Check out Louisville, Florida, the east coast and tell me MN has as much bb talent and warm weather. Cities and population centers are so much closer out east.
 

As was stated, he was asked a specific question and he answered it. It is not like he is running around whining about it. You can look at it like he knows his biggest challenges and has plans to overcome them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 



station19 said:
Grab a map. Check out Louisville, Florida, the east coast and tell me MN has as much bb talent and warm weather. Cities and population centers are so much closer out east.
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I live "out east", and have lived in California and Tennessee. Plus I've spent time for one reason or another throughout this country. Most places with more talent also have more D1 schools competing for that talent, and climate isn't the only thing that determines whether a location is desirable.
 


I think Pitino is accurate when he says you can only depend on the state to produce 2-3 big time recruits per year. Some years it is more and we have certainly had some great groups in the past few years. The problem with local kids is that the competition allows them to dominate to a level where it can be a little difficult to evaluate whether or not they translate to a Big Ten player.

Then- considering that the program hasn't had a lot of success in the past 15 years- it become difficult to depend on the few locals who can play at this level being in love with the idea of being Gophers. It's not as cool as going to Duke or MSU or where ever.

But he has not sat around and whined about that- he has gone out and hit the road and recruited hard and he has started to win some good recruits. It's more of a challenge until we break through and start winning. Once that happens - it will be easier with the local kids. I guess we can ask him to lie to us when asked a question but I think his answer was accurate.
 

vagopher said:
I live "out east", and have lived in California and Tennessee. Plus I've spent time for one reason or another throughout this country. Most places with more talent also have more D1 schools competing for that talent, and climate isn't the only thing that determines whether a location is desirable.
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Did you miss where Pitino said the weather wasn't the biggest challenge? The cold comment was pretty clearly a joke IMO.

and yes those places have more D1 schools, but typically the "players per school" is still higher than it is here, even with only 1 D1 school here.

Lately it has been a lot of elite talent in MN, the problem is they aren't staying home regardless of the state/program/coach unless that state has a blue blood already established. Most states have guys to supplement those elite players at the home state program, MN typically doesn't.

That said, both Pitino and Tubby did/have done a great job getting top talent to stay home outside of the Big 3 & JP. Jarvis (despite his playing status), Amir, and Hurt are fantastic signings for Pitino as is being Lynch back home. Tubby's record in the state is unquestionable as well with Roye, Rodney, and Trevor.

If your strategy is to sign every marginal MN player in hopes they are the diamond in the ruff you will have lots of failures and misses. For every Nate Wolters there are a hundred other kids who go mid-major and don't do squat.
 



howeda7 said:
The last segment on Pitino's show tonight they asked him about the Vikings game on Sunday and if it was good exposure. He said no because all they will do is talk about how cold it is. That part I get.

Grimm then asked if that was the biggest challenge, the weather. Pitino said no. It's location. Minnesota doesn't produce enough recruits. Only 2-3 per year. Nowhere is 'drive-able.' And you can 'never' get a recruit out of ND or SD. And what's to the north, I don't even know. Hard to get a recruit out of Wisconsin or Iowa, etc.
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The fact is that as a city we are rather isolated from other metro areas. For example, Indiana has the advantage of being close to so much (North, south, east), even if you don't want to live there (and Champagne? no thanks). It's hard to go look at a player without flying somewhere which I am sure complicates recruiting. Metro areas are much closer to each other further east. Its a valid point we don't need to take so personally.
 


I find coach's comments disquieting, and I disagree that our situation up here is a profound disadvantage. In some ways it's advantageous in that, aside from the well known top local recruits, there are a lot of kids who slide under the radar - partly because of our geographic isolation - and make excellent collegiates. It's just that Minnesota hasn't always been good at identifying and prioritizing them. This goes back through several coaches, back to when Clem under-prioritized Troy Bell and Jake Sullivan, who became star players elsewhere.
 

Bad Gopher said:
I find coach's comments disquieting, and I disagree that our situation up here is a profound disadvantage. In some ways it's advantageous in that, aside from the well known top local recruits, there are a lot of kids who slide under the radar - partly because of our geographic isolation - and make excellent collegiates. It's just that Minnesota hasn't always been good at identifying and prioritizing them. This goes back through several coaches, back to when Clem under-prioritized Troy Bell and Jake Sullivan, who became star players elsewhere.
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You see, I find it realistic, which I consider to be a good thing.
If the challenges are identified, they can analyzed & addressed.

IMO, one of the things that got Pitino is the trouble he's in here this year was the need to recruit Tyus and Co. They were not going to come here - he was too late to the party and it was a (necessary) waste of time. Does anyone really consider the Big Three going elsewhere a failure on Pitino's part? Not really, but he had to try and it cost us.
As he seemed to say, we need to establish that the U is a great place for the best players to stay & play. Which is what he is endeavoring to do, it seems by his statement. So, as you said, identifying and prioritizing becomes more critical here than elsewhere. I think he's understanding the job and I hope he's up for it.
 

Moonlight said:
The fact is that as a city we are rather isolated from other metro areas. For example, Indiana has the advantage of being close to so much (North, south, east), even if you don't want to live there (and Champagne? no thanks). It's hard to go look at a player without flying somewhere which I am sure complicates recruiting. Metro areas are much closer to each other further east. Its a valid point we don't need to take so personally.
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I'm not saying that part isn't valid. But how many big cities are 'drive-able' from Lincoln, Iowa City or Norman, OK?

In any case, it wasn't that part of the comment that bothered me, but the swipe at the local and regional talent that is drive-able. If I was a kid in ND or SD, I'd have probably crossed MN off my list hearing that. Of course there are 'none' so it doesn't matter I guess.
 

It is kind of chicken-egg. The top players need to stay in Minnesota and very few want to. Somehow Pitino needs to have success and entice them to stay. But this is not that easy.

Another problem is that Pitino also needs to show he wants to stay. I have seen very little to encourage me that he wouldn't jump to a better program if he had a chance. It is a vicious cycle that is hard to get out of.
 

Bad Gopher said:
I find coach's comments disquieting, and I disagree that our situation up here is a profound disadvantage. In some ways it's advantageous in that, aside from the well known top local recruits, there are a lot of kids who slide under the radar - partly because of our geographic isolation - and make excellent collegiates. It's just that Minnesota hasn't always been good at identifying and prioritizing them. This goes back through several coaches, back to when Clem under-prioritized Troy Bell and Jake Sullivan, who became star players elsewhere.
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The problem with under the radar kids is you have to be REALLY good at identifying and developing the good ones. A couple missed there and you are toast. It's much more risky when it comes to winning basketball games to make under the radar kids your priority.
 

Winnipegopher said:
It is kind of chicken-egg. The top players need to stay in Minnesota and very few want to. Somehow Pitino needs to have success and entice them to stay. But this is not that easy.

Another problem is that Pitino also needs to show he wants to stay. I have seen very little to encourage me that he wouldn't jump to a better program if he had a chance. It is a vicious cycle that is hard to get out of.
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In an odd sort of way- the second problem has been taken care of for the next few years by his lack of big success. So he now has a window with these young guys to prove that he can do it here and I think for the moment him leaving for a better job is now not an issue.
 

I would add that Wisconsin produces a fair amount of good talent. If Pitino can start getting into recruiting battles with guys who may normally go to Marquette or even UW that is a good situation. WI is probably the best talent producing state we border, which doesn't say a whole lot, but hey.

I would also say the AAU tournaments that Are held here are also helpful to offsetting some of the challenges.
 

bga1 said:
In an odd sort of way- the second problem has been taken care of for the next few years by his lack of big success. So he now has a window with these young guys to prove that he can do it here and I think for the moment him leaving for a better job is now not an issue.
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Hey - this should be used in "the silver-lining" promo on the radio!!

I can just hear it:
Grimm: So Spenser, what is our Silver-lining 'your worst brings out our best' moment?
Spenser: Well sure Grimmer, we'd have like to have more success, but now Pitino has to stay here until he's proven he can win! In the long run, we may see these early failures as a silver-lining to our program's stability!
Grimm: And there you have it!
 

Moonlight said:
Hey - this should be used in "the silver-lining" promo on the radio!!

I can just hear it:
Grimm: So Spenser, what is our Silver-lining 'your worst brings out our best' moment?
Spenser: Well sure Grimmer, we'd have like to have more success, but now Pitino has to stay here until he's proven he can win! In the long run, we may see these early failures as a silver-lining to our program's stability!
Grimm: And there you have it!
Click to expand...


And may I mention that the combo of this regular promotion and having the whole thing brought to you by a funeral and cremation service business reflects rather poorly. 'Gopher basketball and Washburn-McReavy - both dead in the water!'
 

Bad Gopher said:
I find coach's comments disquieting, and I disagree that our situation up here is a profound disadvantage. In some ways it's advantageous in that, aside from the well known top local recruits, there are a lot of kids who slide under the radar - partly because of our geographic isolation - and make excellent collegiates. It's just that Minnesota hasn't always been good at identifying and prioritizing them. This goes back through several coaches, back to when Clem under-prioritized Troy Bell and Jake Sullivan, who became star players elsewhere.
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Can you name a Gopher team that was successful over the past 50 years relying on hometown players?

Dutcher won the Big Ten with mostly imports. Haskins won big a couple of times with mostly imports. Musselman won with imports.

Most successful hometown boys as Gophers:
McHale, Randy Breuer, John Thomas, Sam Jacobsen, Kevin Lynch

Next tier:
Jim Peterson, Al Nolen, Hoffarber, Rodney Williams, Trevor Winter

Short timers who could have been great:
Olberding, Humphries, Rickert, Landsberger

I'm sure I'm missing some guys but this is not a big list over the long haul
 

EG#9 said:
That is disappointing. I'd like to hear the context of the comments because with Pitino's experience being largely at Louisville, Florida, and FIU it's easy to understand how both the weather and local talent base pale in comparison. That said, a school like Iowa State has had a ton of success lately with virtually no in state recruits and similar weather. Iowa has had more success than us lately, but have done so largely on the backs of a couple lightly recruited kids (Aaron White and Roy Marble Jr) while this years team is lead by local talent. Their most recent recruiting classes have been included a number of kids who were plan B, C, or lower for Pitino...so it will be interesting to see how those kids develop in comparison to Pitino's guys. Even at Wisconsin, the Badgers have taken a couple Minnesota kids in recent year without Gopher offers (Dearring and the more successful Bruesewitz) and according to some in the know we could have had Alex Illikainen as well.

Without making this post longer, if Pitino is saying that the local talent base and/or the weather is a big challenge towards becoming elite, I get it. I don't buy either of those things being as legitimate excuses for not winning in the Big Ten.
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Well said! And there are other examples. U of Utah (Salt Lake City) is also pretty remote as is Gonzaga (Spokane). And how many great recruits come from Utah or Eastern Washington anyway? And good weather is hardly a guarantee of success. While Arizona has been extremely successful over recent decades, Arizona State has had only 3 NCAA tournament appearances this century and only 5 since 1981. Virginia Tech has had only 2 since 1986. USC has great weather, great location, and a national name on its side but has only 4 NCAA tournament appearances since 2002 (same as the Gophers) and three of those were consecutive appearances under Tim Floyd.

Regardless of what Big Ten program one is coaching, that coach will have recruiting advantages over the majority of D1 programs: elite conference competition with resources and national exposure from its own dedicated television network and numerous appearances on the ESPN channels and sometimes even the national networks. This conference can pretty much count on at least 6 NCAA tournament invites each year; the ACC is probably the only other conference that can be confident of that lately.

I like the example you gave of Fran McCaffrey. His team is regularly ranked in the bottom end of the conference's recruiting rankings but he has managed to develop consistently good, although not great, teams. This year, he has one really good player (who wasn't all that highly ranked), four other capable (not exceptional) veterans, and a few other underclassmen who play with high energy off the bench. One of those energy players is a local walk on who is averaging 6 pts, 3.6 rbs, and 54% shooting in 15 minutes per game. One doesn't need to recruit Louisville caliber players to be reasonably successful here. More important is what the coach manages to do with those players after they come to campus.

Pitino has said on multiple occasions that scholarships are "like gold." Perhaps he believes that a bit too strongly and that causes him to be dismissive of players who may not be regarded as having great "upside" but may be able to provide more immediate help than some who are more highly regarded. Hopefully he's learned that he needs something at least close to a full roster so he has more choices.
 

When watching this team play, I would really like a local undersized kid that can shoot. So what if he's under 6 feet and a little slower, he can't be any worse on defense than what we currently have. Having a shooter would be soooooo nice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

vagopher said:
I live "out east", and have lived in California and Tennessee. Plus I've spent time for one reason or another throughout this country. Most places with more talent also have more D1 schools competing for that talent, and climate isn't the only thing that determines whether a location is desirable.
Click to expand...

So what? It's still "driveable"......or "undriveable".....
 

bga1 said:
Can you name a Gopher team that was successful over the past 50 years relying on hometown players?

Dutcher won the Big Ten with mostly imports. Haskins won big a couple of times with mostly imports. Musselman won with imports.

Most successful hometown boys as Gophers:
McHale, Randy Breuer, John Thomas, Sam Jacobsen, Kevin Lynch

Next tier:
Jim Peterson, Al Nolen, Hoffarber, Rodney Williams, Trevor Winter

Short timers who could have been great:
Olberding, Humphries, Rickert, Landsberger

I'm sure I'm missing some guys but this is not a big list over the long haul
Click to expand...

Well, you're missing Trevor Mbakwe at least. As someone who is also an Iowa alum (and still somewhat of a fan), I would say that list of local talent exceeds the list of talent that has come from Iowa and has gone to either Iowa or Iowa State over the same time period.
 

He was asked what the biggest challenges were. If you guys think these answers aren't valid, what are the bigger challenges for this program??
 

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