Time Of Reflection

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hungan1

hungan1

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With all the banter back and forth about Mitch Leidner, let's step back and appreciate the vision and the direction that Jerry Kill is taking the Gopher Football program.

When I look back the last fifty years, I think this is the best chance we have under the current coaching staff to return the program to prominence, and it is being done the right way we can all be proud of.

Let's appreciate the big picture. Gopher Football is still work in progress under Jerry Kill. There is a method to his madness. I like what I see as a Gopher Football fan. In Kill We Trust!

http://performanceexcellencenetwork.org/the-presidents-blog/gophers-can-teach-business-winning-coach-kill-keynote-penworks-2015/

http://buyersguide.coachesdirectory.com/article/building-a-program-with-fundamentals--jerry-kill--university-of-minnesota.html
 

The ebb and flow of a fan and a team are normal. But I agree, this program is in great shape under Kill and it's been a great ride that will get better.
 

+!
hungan1 said:
With all the banter back and forth about Mitch Leidner, let's step back and appreciate the vision and the direction that Jerry Kill is taking the Gopher Football program.

When I look back the last fifty years, I think this is the best chance we have under the current coaching staff to return the program to prominence, and it is being done the right way we can all be proud of.

Let's appreciate the big picture. Gopher Football is still work in progress under Jerry Kill. There is a method to his madness. I like what I see as a Gopher Football fan. In Kill We Trust!

http://performanceexcellencenetwork.org/the-presidents-blog/gophers-can-teach-business-winning-coach-kill-keynote-penworks-2015/

http://buyersguide.coachesdirectory.com/article/building-a-program-with-fundamentals--jerry-kill--university-of-minnesota.html
Click to expand...

+1 Well said.
 

Why does everything just think Kill will automatically "return us to prominence"? We are back to Glen Mason status and have yet to reach the highest level of success Mason did (per end of year AP rankings). To me Mason's defense will be Kill's offense, will it ever be good enough to let the team contend? I don't think it will, but as long as Michigan and PSU are down we have a chance to make a NYD bowl. Once they get rolling again, we're right back to being a team that makes a crappy bowl each year. 5 years and not a hint of competence on offense, I'm not holding my breath that they're even capable of it at this level of football (I don't care if NIU had a good offense for 1 year they were there....).
 

There is always a segment of a fan that wants to believe and hope the next coach is the guy. Here some of it probably has to do with Kill is the guy that followed Brewster. Kill and his staff can coach and should be given credit for what they have done so far with the program. If it was another coach that has hired instead of Kill and the program was at the same place it is now we would be hearing the same thing about that coach and the "return to prominence".
 


sonnygarcia said:
Why does everything just think Kill will automatically "return us to prominence"? We are back to Glen Mason status and have yet to reach the highest level of success Mason did (per end of year AP rankings). To me Mason's defense will be Kill's offense, will it ever be good enough to let the team contend? I don't think it will, but as long as Michigan and PSU are down we have a chance to make a NYD bowl. Once they get rolling again, we're right back to being a team that makes a crappy bowl each year. 5 years and not a hint of competence on offense, I'm not holding my breath that they're even capable of it at this level of football (I don't care if NIU had a good offense for 1 year they were there....).
Click to expand...

I think most can see progress in the offense. 4 years straight PPG goes up while defense stays solid. That's the trajectory people see. It's early to look at this year, but already encouraging when you consider that we scored 40 in our two toughest non-conference games this year and scored 31 combined in those games last year. It's too early to put a stamp on this years offense being officially better than last years, but there are no clear indicators early that it will be stagnant or worse than last year. We laid a huge egg on offense at TCU last year about this time. Neither of the games this year has been close to that bad from an offensive standpoint and I can't see us struggling in the next two games. We don't have to perform like the Iowa game last year every game this year to show progress. We should have one game like that at least, but there will be other average performances where our defense keeps us in it and hopefully allows us to win.

We're on course to head into B1G play 3-1 just like last year and I would think that proclamations of gloom and eternal program darkness could at least wait until our first B1G loss.
 

sonnygarcia said:
Why does everything just think Kill will automatically "return us to prominence"? We are back to Glen Mason status and have yet to reach the highest level of success Mason did (per end of year AP rankings). To me Mason's defense will be Kill's offense, will it ever be good enough to let the team contend? I don't think it will, but as long as Michigan and PSU are down we have a chance to make a NYD bowl. Once they get rolling again, we're right back to being a team that makes a crappy bowl each year. 5 years and not a hint of competence on offense, I'm not holding my breath that they're even capable of it at this level of football (I don't care if NIU had a good offense for 1 year they were there....).
Click to expand...

Who said "automatically"? The OP said he thinks this is the best chance to return to prominence. Some people like to be hopeful about the future. Others don't and that's okay. But I think it is understandable why most fans feel good about the program right now.

What I think we will see with Kill compared to Mason is more consistency. Mason would have a good year or two followed by a bad year. The most Big Ten games Mason won in a 3-year span was 12. If we go 4-4 in the Big Ten this year, Kill will have 13 over the past three years.

Stability is a good thing, but of course we all want us to "take the next step". The verdict is still out on that part. I think Kill can get us there, but we'll just have to see I guess.
 

LakerFan said:
We're on course to head into B1G play 3-1 just like last year and I would think that proclamations of gloom and eternal program darkness could at least wait until our first B1G loss.
Click to expand...

Not sure where you got "gloom and eternal program darkness"?

I'm wondering why everything thinks we'll be a "national" program under Kill ("return to prominence"). Limegrover is either a very inconsistent/bad play-caller, or we have trouble developing offensive talent (or a combination of both). Seems like Mason issues on Defense. We've never had a good o-line since Limey's been here, do we really thing he's capable of developing one? We know this staff has issues recruiting and/or developing QBs (Shortell, Leidner, McKinzy, Streveler) or mind-fuc&s them when they get on campus (Nelson). We all think Croft is the next big thing, but with the staff's track record with QBs there is a far greater chance of him not developing like he should than there is of him being "the one". I'm just wondering why we hate Mason for his defense and we think we're returning to national prominence with this stinker of an offense? I don't get it. Not sure if Kill is the driver behind Limey's offense (or lack thereof), or if he gives Limey full control; but he better figure it out quick (it's year 5!!!).
 




We are at Mason's level, but passing it by this year. The vibe is much better and with a focus on defense there is a great chance that you are in every game.

Glen Mason through 5 years:
Overall: 26-32
Big Ten: 14-26
Bowl: 0-2

Kill Currently in 5th year: Barring major failure, Kill will be over .500 after this year and have shot at being .500 overall in the Big in the next couple years.
Overall: 26-27
Big Ten: 13-19
Bowl: 0-3

People like to point out where Michigan and Penn State are currently as a program, but don't mention current state of Michigan State and Wisconsin. When teams are down, it's likely because others are up.
 

sonnygarcia said:
Not sure where you got "gloom and eternal program darkness"?

I'm wondering why everything thinks we'll be a "national" program under Kill ("return to prominence"). Limegrover is either a very inconsistent/bad play-caller, or we have trouble developing offensive talent (or a combination of both). Seems like Mason issues on Defense. We've never had a good o-line since Limey's been here, do we really thing he's capable of developing one? We know this staff has issues recruiting and/or developing QBs (Shortell, Leidner, McKinzy, Streveler) or mind-fuc&s them when they get on campus (Nelson). We all think Croft is the next big thing, but with the staff's track record with QBs there is a far greater chance of him not developing like he should than there is of him being "the one". I'm just wondering why we hate Mason for his defense and we think we're returning to national prominence with this stinker of an offense? I don't get it. Not sure if Kill is the driver behind Limey's offense (or lack thereof), or if he gives Limey full control; but he better figure it out quick (it's year 5!!!).
Click to expand...

You're Mason parallel might be a bit premature. Mason's pattern of good/great offense with much weaker defense was established over 10 years. Kill has 4 years and 2 games. Maybe you should wait until at least halfway into Kill's 10 years to lock him into a pattern.
 

sonnygarcia said:
Not sure where you got "gloom and eternal program darkness"?

I'm wondering why everything thinks we'll be a "national" program under Kill ("return to prominence"). Limegrover is either a very inconsistent/bad play-caller, or we have trouble developing offensive talent (or a combination of both). Seems like Mason issues on Defense. We've never had a good o-line since Limey's been here, do we really thing he's capable of developing one? We know this staff has issues recruiting and/or developing QBs (Shortell, Leidner, McKinzy, Streveler) or mind-fuc&s them when they get on campus (Nelson). We all think Croft is the next big thing, but with the staff's track record with QBs there is a far greater chance of him not developing like he should than there is of him being "the one". I'm just wondering why we hate Mason for his defense and we think we're returning to national prominence with this stinker of an offense? I don't get it. Not sure if Kill is the driver behind Limey's offense (or lack thereof), or if he gives Limey full control; but he better figure it out quick (it's year 5!!!).
Click to expand...

And I'm wondering if you're just being a jackass on purpose or if it comes without trying. Where in the hell do you get "everyone" and "national" prominence? Most people like the way the program is going. Most people know it's still got a long way to go. You keep harping on the same f*cking thing over and over and then get indignant when people come back. Then it's like you're a lonely voice in the wilderness and "everyone" is a victim of group think.
 

Mulligan said:
And I'm wondering if you're just being a jackass on purpose or if it comes without trying. Where in the hell do you get "everyone" and "national" prominence? Most people like the way the program is going. Most people know it's still got a long way to go. You keep harping on the same f*cking thing over and over and then get indignant when people come back. Then it's like you're a lonely voice in the wilderness and "everyone" is a victim of group think.
Click to expand...

:cry: So I shouldn't group Leidner apologists and the 'Rose Bowl' crowd together? OK, I will refrain from using "everyone" to describe 99% of this board which falls into the 2 aforementioned groups.
 




Old Goph said:
You're Mason parallel might be a bit premature. Mason's pattern of good/great offense with much weaker defense was established over 10 years. Kill has 4 years and 2 games. Maybe you should wait until at least halfway into Kill's 10 years to lock him into a pattern.
Click to expand...

If you think this offense will get any better than what you've seen thus far you are sipping too much whisky. They are anemic now, and with a terrible QB and an average-to-bad Limegrover line, will be anemic the rest of the year. So yes, I think it's very reasonable to take a pattern established over 5 years and deduce what I expect the offense to be like over a 10 year period. Really not far fetched at all.
 

MinneStoa said:
Did you miss the part where we scored 50+ against a major rival last year?
Click to expand...

You're right, our offense looked unbelievable for 1 game, obviously we could do that every week but we don't because we are waiting for the right time to break it out. Don't want to overuse all that firepower every week, that'd get tiring.
 

sonnygarcia said:
You're right, our offense looked unbelievable for 1 game, obviously we could do that every week but we don't because we are waiting for the right time to break it out. Don't want to overuse all that firepower every week, that'd get tiring.
Click to expand...

Translation: "I was wrong, but don't want to admit that my hyperbole was absurd"
 

it appears we are no longer our opponents' homecoming target of choice. none this year. i do consider that progress
 

sonnygarcia said:
:cry: So I shouldn't group Leidner apologists and the 'Rose Bowl' crowd together? OK, I will refrain from using "everyone" to describe 99% of this board which falls into the 2 aforementioned groups.
Click to expand...

You just read and interpret things the way that best fits your view.

According to you: people who don't agree with your take on Leidner = Leidner apologists
Reality: Many people don't believe he is as bad as you think but still needs to get a lot better. Even those that defend him the most don't believe he is anything more than an average QB at best right now.

According to you: Everyone thinks it is a certainty we're going to the Rose Bowl and we're going to be super awesome.
Reality: Most are happy with the progress the program has made to this point and are excited about the future. Most understand that is far from a certainty that the program will take the next step.
 

sonnygarcia said:
If you think this offense will get any better than what you've seen thus far you are sipping too much whisky. They are anemic now, and with a terrible QB and an average-to-bad Limegrover line, will be anemic the rest of the year. So yes, I think it's very reasonable to take a pattern established over 5 years and deduce what I expect the offense to be like over a 10 year period. Really not far fetched at all.
Click to expand...

If you say yes it's reasonable to take a pattern established over 5 years, then how about you stop yammering about it until 5 years are completed?
 

sonnygarcia said:
If you think this offense will get any better than what you've seen thus far you are sipping too much whisky. They are anemic now, and with a terrible QB and an average-to-bad Limegrover line, will be anemic the rest of the year. So yes, I think it's very reasonable to take a pattern established over 5 years and deduce what I expect the offense to be like over a 10 year period. Really not far fetched at all.
Click to expand...

The pattern over 4 years is increasing scoring per game every year. You couple that with scoring 10 more points this year over a common opponent from last year (TCU) and I totally see how you can project we are anemic.
 

sonnygarcia said:
So yes, I think it's very reasonable to take a pattern established over 5 years and deduce what I expect the offense to be like over a 10 year period. Really not far fetched at all.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure you understand what the word "pattern" means because I surely hope this "pattern" continues:

Scoring
2011: 18.4
2012: 22.1
2013: 25.7
2014: 28.4

Total Offense
2011: 310.3
2012: 321.4
2013: 343.3
2014: 357.3
 

There are times I honestly thing some of the critics secretly hope that the Team loses, or Leidner plays a bad game, just so the critics can jump up and down, shouting "I told you so."
 

Maximus said:
I'm not sure you understand what the word "pattern" means because I surely hope this "pattern" continues:

Scoring
2011: 18.4
2012: 22.1
2013: 25.7
2014: 28.4

Total Offense
2011: 310.3
2012: 321.4
2013: 343.3
2014: 357.3
Click to expand...

Shoot, by year ten at that trajectory we'll be pulling in 48.9 ppg and 455.3 ypg
 

Maximus said:
I'm not sure you understand what the word "pattern" means because I surely hope this "pattern" continues:

Scoring
2011: 18.4
2012: 22.1
2013: 25.7
2014: 28.4

Total Offense
2011: 310.3
2012: 321.4
2013: 343.3
2014: 357.3
Click to expand...

LMAO!!! We have yet to break the Top 100 in Total Offense or Top 90 in Scoring in any of the years they've been here. I guess I lump all those sh!tty stats into one group: terrible. Sure we may be moving up in the rankings relative to other terrible teams, but who cares, when you're terrible I guess I don't care to sub-categorize terrible any further. Break the Top 100 in yards per game in the FBS just one year, just one! When they get into the top 75 or top 50 then we can talk about a "pattern" of improvement.
 

MinneStoa said:
Translation: "I was wrong, but don't want to admit that my hyperbole was absurd"
Click to expand...

How was I wrong? Our offense is terrible, but we caught Iowa sleep walking last year and the "blind squirrel found an acorn". Am I suppose to think because the stars aligned for one week we really have a high powered offense, but just chose not to be high powered? What were you trying to get at by bringing up that we had 1 big week against Iowa?
 

It's not Dinkytown Village anymore

GopherOhana said:
it appears we are no longer our opponents' homecoming target of choice. none this year. i do consider that progress
Click to expand...

More people care, even if they are critical, a lot more people care and notice what the Gophers are doing these days.
This, not being a homecoming target, or conference patsy every year until this year we were at least one homecoming game, especially the stronger opponents choice of homecoming even if the games were later in the year. Heck Northwestern almost always had the Gophers pegged as homecoming until a lot of Gopher fans started showing up down there, and we starting beating them in their place, surprised they didn't book us this year.

That is a sign of progress. The fact that we are starting to see the Gophers win more frequently, win more trophy games, and the fan base is starting to travel more indicates signs of progress. Garcia we get that you want the program to succeed at a higher level we all do, were Gopher fans here, but don't forget to take the time to enjoy some of the success and change before we start continuing to point out what might be holding the program back. Whatever it is, better athletes, more team speed, more players starting to graduate and play longer, to me there is certainly been progress from the Brewster years disasters, even some over the Mason years. The fact that more guys know they need their degrees is a huge win for the program.
Gophers are nobody's easy out and book'em W anymore, enjoy some of the good with the bad, and let's all give the Leidner hysteria a bit of rest, hopefully he plays better and can get some people off his back. All we can do as fans is hope for the best and a brighter future.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
There are times I honestly thing some of the critics secretly hope that the Team loses, or Leidner plays a bad game, just so the critics can jump up and down, shouting "I told you so."
Click to expand...

This goes the same for both sides. There will be plenty jumping up and down shouting "I told you so" if Leidner has a good game Saturday.
 


sonnygarcia said:
LMAO!!! We have yet to break the Top 100 in Total Offense or Top 90 in Scoring in any of the years they've been here. I guess I lump all those sh!tty stats into one group: terrible. Sure we may be moving up in the rankings relative to other terrible teams, but who cares, when you're terrible I guess I don't care to sub-categorize terrible any further. Break the Top 100 in yards per game in the FBS just one year, just one! When they get into the top 75 or top 50 then we can talk about a "pattern" of improvement.
Click to expand...

We were top 75 last year in terms of yards per play, but ranked 90+ in all previous years. When you play a slow pace like we do total yards per game doesn't tell the whole story. In terms of offensive efficiency, yes, there is a pattern of improvement. Has the improvement been slower on offense than defense? Yes. The coaching staff has essentially said from day 1 that is how they are going to build the program though. Pretty soon Mason territory will be in the rear view mirror.
 

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