Championship Coaches Know More Than Hack Writer (Reusse)

[watertown 1987 guy n]

i will take the option of two coaches that have won NCAA National Championships over a sensationalist sports writer every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Especially a hack whose paid job is to be disliked and sell newspapers.

Rick Patino - Richard is not like me at all when I was his age. He's exactly like Billy, His mannerisms are a lot like Billy. He loves offense like Billy loves offense. He's a great scout, a great preparer of game plans, like Billy was. He's very humble, like Billy was. He laughs like Billy. He likes to have a lot of fun. He's very close with the players, like Billy was. He is just like the rest of us in this world that have to build the right way. Your only as good as your players, he has had no all conference players for two years.

Billy Donovan - He is one of the most prepared assistants I've ever had. It will take Richard some time to get the right players to fit his system. They (MN) struggled a bit this year but I can't think of many basketball program that don't go through that when a new system is put in. It will be fun to watch him build the program.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Weak defense thread.

It's like being the ugly kid and saying your mom thinks you're beautiful.

 

[Dr.Don]

Weak defense thread.

It's like being the ugly kid and saying your mom thinks you're beautiful.

You are, and she does.

 

[scher215]

Weak defense thread. It's like being the ugly kid and saying your mom thinks you're beautiful.

In this example then would your mom be the head of a modeling agency?

 

[burton34]

Weak defense thread.

It's like being the ugly kid and saying your mom thinks you're beautiful.

+1 I totally agree.

I'm so tired of Rick Pitino's ad nauseam quote, "Your only as good as your players, he has had no all conference players for two years." Doesn't this just mean that Richard is not good at developing his players?

Case in point: the pre-Pitino year for Andre Hollins finished on an upward trajectory where Hollins was voted Third Team All-Big Ten by the media. Yet, Hollins failed to make an all-conference team during his two Pitino years. Hmmm.

 

[station19]

Parski called.

 

[Go4]

You are, and she does.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

And if Rick Pitino or Billy Donovan really had questions/concerns about Rich's ability to coach, I am SURE they would tell a reporter about it.....

Reusse has a right to his opinion, and you have a right to disagree. I am firmly in the camp of "jury is still out." I want to see what happens this season with the big roster turnover.

 

[corcoran1]

1) He has made a commitment to fast basketball, and he has to play it now to get kids who can actually play it to come here and to develop the young guys he does have.
2 ) The guys he inherited cannot pay fast basketball. Elliot, Mo, Buggs cannot pay fast basketball. Elliot and Mo because they are Tubbyball guys who can only play slow basketball near the basket. Buggs could physically do it but he is lost on the open floor with the ball. They can't defend on the open floor at all.
3) Even Andre is not that good at it because he is not that athletic.
4) RPs critics act like he inherited a lot of talent. These guys would not be that good in Tubbby' system, in RP's they are not-starting caliber players.
5) No one knows how good RP will be but judging him after playing his style of basketball with Tubby's players is ridiculous.
6) The only sport Reusse likes is baseball. He rips any other sport every time he can, except when his editor's force him to write a human-interest story about someone who played town ball in Miesville in the 60's and is now a retired bartender in Owatonna, with early stage terminal flatulence..

 

[Winnipegopher]

Pitino's background is both a blessing and a curse. It is a blessing as there is no way in hell he would be a BCS head coach at 31. None. But it is also a curse as he won't get fair credit until he does something. Fortunately or unfortunately, he has reached a level where his Dad's influence doesn't really matter anymore. Just like any other coach, wins will keep him employed and get him shots at better jobs while loses will get him fired.

 

[scher215]

In fairness to Pat, he's been fully on board with Pitino since day one. I mean, I can't fathom why he'd now argue the Wolves were more successful than Pitino ...

All this while, Flip Saunders — maroon-and-gold through and through, a longtime NBA coach, immensely popular with boosters — was available to be hired.

We loved to bad-mouth Joel Maturi, Teague’s predecessor, for his coaching searches. And it’s doubtful that Maturi would have mustered the audacity to fire Smith, the big-name coach who had landed in his lap in April 2007.

But we know this for sure: Maturi wouldn’t have messed around with Saunders. The man we loved to ridicule would’ve had Flip hired within 48 hours of a Smith departure.

Tell me a week ago that the choice was Flip Saunders, a passionate ex-Gopher with an outstanding résumé, or a 30-year-old former student manager with little more than a famous surname to validate his candidacy, and I would have been standing in front of Williams Arena, acting as goofy as Larry Spooner at a Vikings stadium hearing, holding a sign and shouting, “Flip, Flip, Flip.’’

 

[dtrain19]

+1 I totally agree. I'm so tired of Rick Pitino's ad nauseam quote, "Your only as good as your players, he has had no all conference players for two years." Doesn't this just mean that Richard is not good at developing his players? Case in point: the pre-Pitino year for Andre Hollins finished on an upward trajectory where Hollins was voted Third Team All-Big Ten by the media. Yet, Hollins failed to make an all-conference team during his two Pitino years. Hmmm.

And in turn he took an overweight Walker who scored 2.2 points per game as a sophomore and made in into a quality B1G center. Not only did Pitino resurrect Mo's college career but have him an opportunity to make a living playing basketball after college. As in most cases it works both ways.

 

[60's Guy]

Did you watch any games at all?

+1 I totally agree.

I'm so tired of Rick Pitino's ad nauseam quote, "Your only as good as your players, he has had no all conference players for two years." Doesn't this just mean that Richard is not good at developing his players?

Case in point: the pre-Pitino year for Andre Hollins finished on an upward trajectory where Hollins was voted Third Team All-Big Ten by the media. Yet, Hollins failed to make an all-conference team during his two Pitino years. Hmmm.

Never mind the fact that Andre was averaging a career high 16 points per game for Pitino as a junior through the first 19 games of the season. Just ignore that...right? Not a factor in your jealousy? Ignorance? And then Andre got hurt and was never able to be the same player again. He had to alter his game to fit his diminished athletic ability to attack the basket and get to the line. He was now just a 3 point shooter. Don't factor that into your hate for Pitino's coaching ability.
Or as dtrain noted: the absolute complete resurrection of Mo Walker. Ignore that too.
There's more but it's not worth explaining to you. Your mind is made up.

 

[Mulligan]

All this while, Flip Saunders — maroon-and-gold through and through, a longtime NBA coach, immensely popular with boosters — was available to be hired.

You mean the Flip that ended up the coach, general manager/president of BBO, and minority owner in an NBA team? I know what was coming out of his mouth at the time, but I never believed the Gopher coaching job was his goal. I think he played Glen about perfectly. Watching the total lack of interest in defense the Wolves show, the refusal to embrace the 3 point shot, and possibly the lack of recruiting connections, not so sure the Gophers didn't dodge a bullet. Growing pains for sure with Pitino but still think the ceiling is greater.

 

[cjbfbp]

i will take the option of two coaches that have won NCAA National Championships over a sensationalist sports writer every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I hope you don't actually believe that in this case. One of those coaches is the coach's father and the other is a coach who was mentored extensively both in his playing and coaching careers by the coach's father.

 

[cjbfbp]

1) He has made a commitment to fast basketball, and he has to play it now to get kids who can actually play it to come here and to develop the young guys he does have.

I'm so sick of reading this mantra because it's so oblivious to reality. Pitino's team plays in the Big Ten where 1) the style is tough, half-court defensive basketball and most opponents will not let you run a track meet and 2) at least half of the conference opponents will have as much or more talent to play that type of game against the Gophers if they find themselves in one.

 

[jovs]

I'm so sick of reading this mantra because it's so oblivious to reality. Pitino's team plays in the Big Ten where 1) the style is tough, half-court defensive basketball and most opponents will not let you run a track meet and 2) at least half of the conference opponents will have as much or more talent to play that type of game against the Gophers if they find themselves in one.

I was impressed by Konate's ability to get out and cover Kaminsky in the Wisconsin game, much better than Mo or Eliason, he's got a ways to go defending the post but he has ability and quickness that neither Mo nor Eliason had, same can be said about Mason, the guy's he's bringing in Johnson and Dorsey, these guys are quicker than Tubby's guys, I am hoping it turns into much more aggressive and effective half court and full court defenses. Tme will tell but a couple of years down the line I see them winning the close games because of there ability to cover guys a little better.

 

[station19]

I'm so sick of reading this mantra because it's so oblivious to reality. Pitino's team plays in the Big Ten where 1) the style is tough, half-court defensive basketball and most opponents will not let you run a track meet and 2) at least half of the conference opponents will have as much or more talent to play that type of game against the Gophers if they find themselves in one.

No it's not. You are.

In fairness to Pat, he's been fully on board with Pitino since day one. I mean, I can't fathom why he'd now argue the Wolves were more successful than Pitino ...

All this while, Flip Saunders — maroon-and-gold through and through, a longtime NBA coach, immensely popular with boosters — was available to be hired.

We loved to bad-mouth Joel Maturi, Teague’s predecessor, for his coaching searches. And it’s doubtful that Maturi would have mustered the audacity to fire Smith, the big-name coach who had landed in his lap in April 2007.

But we know this for sure: Maturi wouldn’t have messed around with Saunders. The man we loved to ridicule would’ve had Flip hired within 48 hours of a Smith departure.

Tell me a week ago that the choice was Flip Saunders, a passionate ex-Gopher with an outstanding résumé, or a 30-year-old former student manager with little more than a famous surname to validate his candidacy, and I would have been standing in front of Williams Arena, acting as goofy as Larry Spooner at a Vikings stadium hearing, holding a sign and shouting, “Flip, Flip, Flip.’’

Thank God Maturi wasn't around.

You mean the Flip that ended up the coach, general manager/president of BBO, and minority owner in an NBA team? I know what was coming out of his mouth at the time, but I never believed the Gopher coaching job was his goal. I think he played Glen about perfectly. Watching the total lack of interest in defense the Wolves show, the refusal to embrace the 3 point shot, and possibly the lack of recruiting connections, not so sure the Gophers didn't dodge a bullet. Growing pains for sure with Pitino but still think the ceiling is greater.

This is totally 100% spot on. Flip had no interest in the Gopher job at the time. Teague had no interst in hiring Flip. The got together and figured out what the best PR talk would be.

Dodged a bullet is 100% correct.

 

[alchemy2u]

Haters are going to hate.


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[TruthSeeker]

You are, and she does.

Obviously!

I still landed my wife, so I am good.

 

[cjbfbp]

No it's not. You are.

Brilliant comeback! You are remarkably consistent in your commonness.

 

[cjbfbp]

I was impressed by Konate's ability to get out and cover Kaminsky in the Wisconsin game, much better than Mo or Eliason, he's got a ways to go defending the post but he has ability and quickness that neither Mo nor Eliason had, same can be said about Mason, the guy's he's bringing in Johnson and Dorsey, these guys are quicker than Tubby's guys, I am hoping it turns into much more aggressive and effective half court and full court defenses. Tme will tell but a couple of years down the line I see them winning the close games because of there ability to cover guys a little better.

I agree that Bakary seemed to be able to get to the perimeter quicker than the seniors (actually, Elliot could get there fairly quickly too but couldn't always maintain his balance in doing so). Regardless of how quick his recruits are there will be guys as quick or quicker on other teams. They're still going to need the half court skills and effective half court team play. The biggest difference between Tubby's last team and Pitino's first was DeAndre who was as quick as anyone in the league and did have the skills to succeed in the tough half court game. Unfortunately, the conference adapted to him in his final year.

 

[bemidjigopher]

I agree that Bakary seemed to be able to get to the perimeter quicker than the seniors (actually, Elliot could get there fairly quickly too but couldn't always maintain his balance in doing so). Regardless of how quick his recruits are there will be guys as quick or quicker on other teams. They're still going to need the half court skills and effective half court team play. The biggest difference between Tubby's last team and Pitino's first was DeAndre who was as quick as anyone in the league and did have the skills to succeed in the tough half court game. Unfortunately, the conference adapted to him in his final year.

Mathieu biggest problem was he needed to be at least three inches taller. Unfortunately he has no control over that. Once teams adjusted he was just too small. On a deeper team would've been a great spark plug off the bench.

 

[60's Guy]

Naw

Mathieu biggest problem was he needed to be at least three inches taller. Unfortunately he has no control over that. Once teams adjusted he was just too small. On a deeper team would've been a great spark plug off the bench.

He was the same height as a junior and team MVP. He stopped attacking the basket. He played tentative.
He was incredibly weak as a senior in the mental toughness department. He whined, he demonstrated shock each time he got a foul called against him. He slumped his shoulders, looked like he was going to cry each time he turned the ball over. Why? I have no idea...maybe it was because the other team adjusted but that's not what I saw. Defensively, you can't adjust to contain somebody twice as quick as you are. But that person certainly can take himself out of the game by his mindset.

 

[station19]

Brilliant comeback! You are remarkably consistent in your commonness.

I'm glad you enjoyed it.

 

[thesanfordman]

Case in point: the pre-Pitino year for Andre Hollins finished on an upward trajectory where Hollins was voted Third Team All-Big Ten by the media. Yet, Hollins failed to make an all-conference team during his two Pitino years. Hmmm.

Dumb. Hollins was never the same after needing hip surgery. You can't blame that on Pitino.

 

[maxwellsmart]

Dumb. Hollins was never the same after needing hip surgery. You can't blame that on Pitino.

Please. This makes far too much sense to hold up on this board.

 

[go_gophers]

He was the same height as a junior and team MVP. He stopped attacking the basket. He played tentative.
He was incredibly weak as a senior in the mental toughness department. He whined, he demonstrated shock each time he got a foul called against him. He slumped his shoulders, looked like he was going to cry each time he turned the ball over. Why? I have no idea...maybe it was because the other team adjusted but that's not what I saw. Defensively, you can't adjust to contain somebody twice as quick as you are. But that person certainly can take himself out of the game by his mindset.

There are countless things one can do to adjust to a player with great quickness including, but not limited to giving extra space and inviting the outside shot (happened constantly) and adjusting positioning and focus of help defenders to clog up the lane and discourage penetration or create turnovers (also happened quite a bit). I don't think Izzo and the boys would just throw up their hands and say: "Oh, well. We tried. He was too quick." Certainly, his mental approach was disappointing, but I think opponents' adjustments had a lot to do with his snowballing frustration.

 

[dbaldrich1]

I hope you don't actually believe that in this case. One of those coaches is the coach's father and the other is a coach who was mentored extensively both in his playing and coaching careers by the coach's father.

First off, it's possible for a father to provide a solid analysis of his son's strengths and weaknesses, even when fatherly bias is taken into account. In addition, to use Donovan's connection to Rick Pitino as a reason for him to be disingenuous in his description of Richard Pitino as a coach seems like a cop out from a frustrated fan. Richard is young and relatively inexperienced as a head coach. That doesn't preclude him from being well prepared. He has, and will continue, to make mistakes as he learns on the job.

I didn't see anything that Rick Pitino or Billy Donovan said that I didn't already believe after watching the first two seasons under Richard Pitino. The coach seems to understand the game and has a vision for what he wants from his team. Currently, he is trying to implement a system on the court with (primarily) inherited players who aren't really well suited to that system. He seems to be recruiting new players who will better fit that system (Mason, McBrayer, Konate, etc.), and time will tell if he'll be successful in judging and developing talent and winning games.

In the first two years this team has won some games against superior teams (Michigan State this year is an example), and they've also looked lost on the court at times. I won't give Richard Pitino 100% of the credit or blame for either of these things, as the players are ultimately responsible for how well they execute what the coach is asking of them.

At this point, I'm willing to give Richard Pitino the next 2-3 years to recruit and develop players that fit the type of game and system he wants to play, and determine from there whether he can be successful through how competitive the team is, and overall wins & losses.

 

[Tim1406]

At this point, I'm willing to give Richard Pitino the next 2-3 years to recruit and develop players that fit the type of game and system he wants to play, and determine from there whether he can be successful through how competitive the team is, and overall wins & losses.

It'd be nice to have as much patience with Richard as Indiana, who has greater expectations, is showing with Crean(though Crean did have a #1 seed one year and now 3 NCAA appearances despite not having 1 in his first 3 years).

Edit: the fan base probably wants him gone but the AD is keeping him at least 1 more year(8 seasons total)