Analysis of non-seniors, at Wisconsin game

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El Amin Fan

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Sure I hope we win out, and a home win over F Bo Ryan would be delicious, but at this point, the only thing worth focusing on in these last few games is those that will be on the roster next year, in particular the young guys. Analysis after the road game at UW.

Buggs: He had some really nice offensive moments today. He has improved a ton in the last year, and should start the rest of the year. He is still lost at times, but there will be a nice role for him the next two years.

Mason; He didn't look nervous at all playing on the road today. He carried the offense early. He should start the rest of the season.

Gaston: Played more than I expected. He's getting more confident, he had a nice form on the 3 he took.

Konate: Played for the first time in a while. I can't believe at one point we had Gaston and Konate vs Kaminsky and Dekker. He got abused by Kaminsky on D, but so do many big men. But he was abused badly. He is making quicker decisions on offense.

Kng: He was miserable. I'd rather see Gaston get King's minutes or at least more of them.

Morris: He's perfect off the bench. He can be a very effective 7th man next year. Let's hope we upgrade so that is where he is in the rotation, an instant offense type of guy.
 



Completely agree with all of that. Not much else to add here! We need to get an impact post player badly for next year, because Gaston and Bakary are defensive minded guys who still don't have a great feel for the game. He works hard and plays as well as he can for the athleticsm and skills he has, but I'll continue to say King isn't meant to be a high major player.
 

I see some hope in some of the young guys.

Buggs or Morris could be a breakout player next year with a lot of dedication this offseason.

Mason is ready for the big stage. He will be a good starter.

The two project bigs have a glimmer of hope, but they are farther away. They might be good enough to not embarrass themselves next year, but I don't see a breakout. They are both two years away from commanding respect by opposing coaches.

If we hit on two of the three guards we currently have signed, then we should be an NIT team next year and maybe a special team in two years.
 



Both of the bigs are as raw as any gopher freshmen I can remember and should have been redshirted. I don't think they will have a significant positive impact on a B1G home game until late next year and not on the road until the following season. (Preseason games are fool's gold in terms of measuring player development.) That assumes that they work hard and progress. I know Pitino said Konate was ahead of Dieng at the same point before the season but I think it was coach talk.
 

McBrayer better be a good shooter. We will need that for sure,

I hope for a Juco starting center (which may be impossible) and a decent 4 new frosh or Juco then not sure on last scholarship
 

Non-seniors

El Amin Fan said:
Sure I hope we win out, and a home win over F Bo Ryan would be delicious, but at this point, the only thing worth focusing on in these last few games is those that will be on the roster next year, in particular the young guys. Analysis after the road game at UW.

Buggs: He had some really nice offensive moments today. He has improved a ton in the last year, and should start the rest of the year. He is still lost at times, but there will be a nice role for him the next two years.

Mason; He didn't look nervous at all playing on the road today. He carried the offense early. He should start the rest of the season.

Gaston: Played more than I expected. He's getting more confident, he had a nice form on the 3 he took.

Konate: Played for the first time in a while. I can't believe at one point we had Gaston and Konate vs Kaminsky and Dekker. He got abused by Kaminsky on D, but so do many big men. But he was abused badly. He is making quicker decisions on offense.

Kng: He was miserable. I'd rather see Gaston get King's minutes or at least more of them.

Morris: He's perfect off the bench. He can be a very effective 7th man next year. Let's hope we upgrade so that is where he is in the rotation, an instant offense type of guy.
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Buggs: low BB IQ and will never be more than a bit player showing occasional competence.

Gaston: Should be serviceable in a couple years but "nice form" on a missed shot? Seriously?

Konate: don't see him ever being a major contributor

King: has major limitations but we are about 15 pts./game better with him in the game v. anyone else we have at forward. The bashing is silly and has a racial component

Morris: agree 100%
 



TruthSeeker said:
I see some hope in some of the young guys.

Buggs or Morris could be a breakout player next year with a lot of dedication this offseason.

Mason is ready for the big stage. He will be a good starter.

The two project bigs have a glimmer of hope, but they are farther away. They might be good enough to not embarrass themselves next year, but I don't see a breakout. They are both two years away from commanding respect by opposing coaches.

If we hit on two of the three guards we currently have signed, then we should be an NIT team next year and maybe a special team in two years.
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If we are still an NIT team in year 3, I'm going to be pretty disappointed with Pitino.
 


I love what buggs brings to this team, great upside going forward. King will see fewer minutes going forward. Gaston will be a good 4 man has gotten better for not practicing for the first 2 most importantly months for freshman first two. Mason is going to beat great 4 year player. Ok ate has a ways to go.
 

LesBolstad said:
Buggs: low BB IQ and will never be more than a bit player showing occasional codmpetence.

Gaston: Should be serviceable in a couple years but "nice form" on a missed shot? Seriously?

Konate: don't see him ever being a major contributor

King: has major limitations but we are about 15 pts./game better with him in the game v. anyone else we have at forward. The bashing is silly and has a racial component

Morris: agree 100%
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I agree with you about King. King had a bad game yesterday but he is our best forward. He plays on the perimeter setting picks and spotting up for a three so he is never going to get you an offensive rebound unless the ball bounces 20 feet from the basket.

Buggs had a good game yesterday. Like Dokich said, he is very athletic, long and a decent shooter. Hopefully he becomes consistent.

Mason should be our best player next year. He had a good game yesterday, but I think every team in the B1G will have a player as good as Mason.

Morris is a gunner off the bench who doesn't play much defense....everybody needs one of them.

Gaston and Konate....I don't think we have seen enough of them to know how they will turn out. They could be serviceable in a couple years, but I'm not expecting much...at least not next year. I guess they will have to be serviceable next year.

That's pretty much who we having coming back. Hopefully the freshmen and really really good!!!

I'm certainly willing to give Pitino a few more years, because I think he has a shot to be a pretty decent recruiter. But if next years class isn't any better than this years, I'm going to start to have serious doubts. People on this board have been complaining about what Tubby left Pitino, but what Pitino has left Pitino is a hell of a lot worse....at least for next year.

As much as this season has been a disappointment for me....the makeup for our returning roster is a bigger disappointment for me. Bad seasons can happen, but when they do, you want to see hope for the future. I don't see hope for next year, and when I talk about hope, I'm talking about the top 6 in the conference and an NCAA bid. Hopefully things will be looking a lot different a year from now. Because rebuilding from a 5-13 or 6-12 team seems a little depressing for me.
 



Gold Vision said:
With the graduation attrition, you expect this team to make a jump forward next year?
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My expectation is always to make the NCAA tournament going into the season. I am probably one of the few but if we are able to add a JUCO/GRAD big or 2 and a wing like Ellison I wouldn't be surprised to see this team on the NCAA tourney bubble next year despite being young. Hollins shooting ability and Mo's offense when he is playing well. I really like the group of guards coming in next year and think Dorsey and Johnson will both be an improvement over how Mathieu has played most of this season. Konate at the very least can replace EE next year and he has done that at times this season.
 


Goldy Gopher said:
My expectation is always to make the NCAA tournament going into the season. I am probably one of the few but if we are able to add a JUCO/GRAD big or 2 and a wing like Ellison I wouldn't be surprised to see this team on the NCAA tourney bubble next year despite being young. Hollins shooting ability and Mo's offense when he is playing well. I really like the group of guards coming in next year and think Dorsey and Johnson will both be an improvement over how Mathieu has played most of this season. Konate at the very least can replace EE next year and he has done that at times this season.
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EE has hardly played in the B1G this year, so I'm sure anyone will be able to replace him. The Gophers will not be an NCAA tournament team next year. Hopefully we see promise from this recruiting class and have a nice one coming in the following year. College freshmen almost never make the kind impact you are expecting unless they are McDonalds All-Americans. It's a huge jump.
 

gopherhoopsguy said:
I love what buggs brings to this team, great upside going forward. King will see fewer minutes going forward. Gaston will be a good 4 man has gotten better for not practicing for the first 2 most importantly months for freshman first two. Mason is going to beat great 4 year player. Ok ate has a ways to go.
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I'm sorry, but King will see just as much time next year as he has this year. He sets picks, he takes charges and he shoots the ball well from the outside. A better guess is that he will be a much better player next year than anyone expects him to be.
 

TruthSeeker said:
I see some hope in some of the young guys.

Buggs or Morris could be a breakout player next year with a lot of dedication this offseason.

Mason is ready for the big stage. He will be a good starter.

The two project bigs have a glimmer of hope, but they are farther away. They might be good enough to not embarrass themselves next year, but I don't see a breakout. They are both two years away from commanding respect by opposing coaches.

If we hit on two of the three guards we currently have signed, then we should be an NIT team next year and maybe a special team in two years.
Click to expand...

Pretty much agree with everything you've said although I might be a little more optimistic than you about Bakary's timetable for development. I also think Pitino needs to acquire two more players for next year's team with one of them being an athletic power forward with the potential to make significant contributions on both ends of the court. I share your enthusiasm for Buggs' potential over the next two years, but that's not enough to rely on going forward.
 

ethomasp31 said:
I'm sorry, but King will see just as much time next year as he has this year. He sets picks, he takes charges and he shoots the ball well from the outside. A better guess is that he will be a much better player next year than anyone expects him to be.
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I remember hearing from "experts" on this board a year ago that Martin was going to be playing 26-30 minutes a game and that King would be playing about 10. I think some were expecting 10-12 points and 7-8 rebounds a game from him. Now I'm hearing all the expectations about next years freshmen before they ever put on a Gopher uniform.
 

ethomasp31 said:
I'm sorry, but King will see just as much time next year as he has this year. He sets picks, he takes charges and he shoots the ball well from the outside. A better guess is that he will be a much better player next year than anyone expects him to be.
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There is no question that he makes positive contributions but I think the same thing could be said about him that was once said about George Harrison. He could be counted on to provide two great songs for every Beatles album and, unfortunately, a similar number for his own. I think Joey could contribute not much less (and with fewer mistakes) if we had a more suitable starter at the 4 and Joey averaged about 10 minutes less per game coming off the bench.
 

ethomasp31 said:
Now I'm hearing all the expectations about next years freshmen before they ever put on a Gopher uniform.
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Well, first of all, not all of the newcomers have to be freshman. Secondly, with regards to Joey, what you are reading might be more properly characterized as "hope" rather than "expectation."

By the way, quoting yourself in a post is more than a little schmucky.
 

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cjbfbp said:
Well, first of all, not all of the newcomers have to be freshman. Secondly, with regards to Joey, what you are reading might be more properly characterized as "hope" rather than "expectation."

By the way, quoting yourself in a post is more than a little schmucky.
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Sorry I wanted to add to something I said....I wasn't aware of the proper messageboard etiquette. We will see about King, but we are losing a bunch of scoring and he can shoot and score. I expect his numbers and play to be better and his minutes to be unchanged. Why is it alright to project improvement from Konate and Buggs but not from King?
 

cjbfbp said:
There is no question that he makes positive contributions but I think the same thing could be said about him that was once said about George Harrison. He could be counted on to provide two great songs for every Beatles album and, unfortunately, a similar number for his own. I think Joey could contribute not much less (and with fewer mistakes) if we had a more suitable starter at the 4 and Joey averaged about 10 minutes less per game coming off the bench.
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I think you hit the nail on the head. There are so many mindless mistakes, especially for his 'glue guy' qualities that ethomasp is so focused on. How many off the ball offensive fouls has King had this season? Didn't bob knight just say he shot 4 players throughout his career for that kind of play? His playing time will probably come down to how much Pitino decides to let his younger guys grow. So stating that King will "simply" get the same number if minutes is pretty obtuse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

King just isn't a player who plays 28mpg on a good team. No offense to the young man.
 

bc2211 said:
I think you hit the nail on the head. There are so many mindless mistakes, especially for his 'glue guy' qualities that ethomasp is so focused on. How many off the ball offensive fouls has King had this season? Didn't bob knight just say he shot 4 players throughout his career for that kind of play? His playing time will probably come down to how much Pitino decides to let his younger guys grow. So stating that King will "simply" get the same number if minutes is pretty obtuse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I'm pretty sure I heard this same argument last year and King's minutes went from a little over 22 to a little over 28 a game. He is going into his senior year and he has just as good of a chance as anyone else on our roster to make improvements to his game. He shoots about 37% from the three point line and is as good of a scoring option as we have returning to next years team. We are losing Hollins, Mathieu and Walker which is about 35 points a game...in the B1G we are going to need to score in a half court offense. Who do you propose will take up that slack? You can complain about Joey King all you want but right now he is one of the best 5 players on this roster and next year he wil be one of the best 3 on our team. One of the players some of you want us to use a scholarship on was the kid who played at Kennedy....Russo or something like that. He is a 4 also. I saw both King and Russo play in high school....A LOT....he's not going to come here and beat out King.
 

DeathClutch said:
King just isn't a player who plays 28mpg on a good team. No offense to the young man.
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I'm not going to disagree or agree with you....but using your logic....we aren't a good team, and we won't be next year either. And if we are a good team next year, one of the reasons is because King took a step up....because he is going to get between 26-30 minutes a game next year too.
 

ethomasp31 said:
I'm not going to disagree or agree with you....but using your logic....we aren't a good team, and we won't be next year either. And if we are a good team next year, one of the reasons is because King took a step up....because he is going to get between 26-30 minutes a game next year too.
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Well, we have three scholarships left and have been looking at some JUCO 4's ( Boucher, Russo). There is no guarantee that King plays that much next year. Also, you don't see a whole lot of 4 year college players make a significant jump from their junior-senior seasons. Most Juniors are what they are at that point.
 

DeathClutch said:
Well, we have three scholarships left and have been looking at some JUCO 4's ( Boucher, Russo). There is no guarantee that King plays that much next year. Also, you don't see a whole lot of 4 year college players make a significant jump from their junior-senior seasons. Most Juniors are what they are at that point.
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I saw Russo play some and King play quite a bit in high school. I'd be very surprised if he takes many minutes away from King....unless it's to give him rest.
 

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