CBS: Pennsylvanians want Joe Paterno statue restored at Penn State

BleedGopher

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per CBS:

A new Quinnipiac University poll shows an overwhelming majority of Pennsylvanians support the restoration of the controversial bronze statue of Joe Paterno to Penn State's campus, the Associated Press reported Wednesday.

The poll shows a whopping 34-point margin in favor of restoring the statue (59 percent of respondents to 25 percent), which was removed from its previous site near Beaver Stadium in July 2012, some eight months after the late, legendary coach was dismissed in the midst of the Jerry Sandusky sexual abuse scandal.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...ant-joe-paterno-statue-restored-at-penn-state

Go Gophers!!
 



per CBS:

A new Quinnipiac University poll shows an overwhelming majority of Pennsylvanians support the restoration of the controversial bronze statue of Joe Paterno to Penn State's campus, the Associated Press reported Wednesday.

The poll shows a whopping 34-point margin in favor of restoring the statue (59 percent of respondents to 25 percent), which was removed from its previous site near Beaver Stadium in July 2012, some eight months after the late, legendary coach was dismissed in the midst of the Jerry Sandusky sexual abuse scandal.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...ant-joe-paterno-statue-restored-at-penn-state

Go Gophers!!

Give them the statue. Then build one of Sandusky right next to it and engrave the word Pedophile in big bold letters across his chest and the word Enabler across Paterno's chest.
 

Give them the statue. Then build one of Sandusky right next to it and engrave the word Pedophile in big bold letters across his chest and the word Enabler across Paterno's chest.

Good one Jeshurun.

And after they get the statue restored, the entire state of Pennsylvania will walk off a cliff in Lemming-like fashion.
 


Give them the statue. Then build one of Sandusky right next to it and engrave the word Pedophile in big bold letters across his chest and the word Enabler across Paterno's chest.

And in front of those two, 10 silhouette statutes representing each victim.
 


Let the warped sickos (of which there are many in State College) have their idol in statue form if they like. They can then move on to the serious matter of offering their first-born children to the shrine of Paterno.
 

Those of us who lived in PA through this issue have been exposed to much more of the intricacies of the story. As I've stated here before, the story originally told by ESPN/national media is way off and left a very misrepresented impression of actual occurrences (the difference between narrative and reality is stark - much greater than that of something we went through in MN - the narrative of the Phil Nelson case prior to its video being released).

Given detailed evidence here, PA residents believe PSU was largely mistreated, in particular by the media narrative that was often downright false, almost always blown out of proportion; and then followed in lightning-fast sequence by overreaching sanctions by a body usurping its own authority while "threatening the death penalty" to blackmail acceptance of those sanctions. That the NCAA worked behind the scenes with Freeh during the writing of his report, which was then used as the basis to apply those sanctions, has not assisted acceptance of the case against Paterno himself, which was tenuous to begin with, at best, and against a man no longer able to defend himself.

Clearly this is not a post that will get "+1" agreements, as most people get disgusted when thinking about the subject and want vengeance. But it does represent the sentiment that is going on in Pennsylvania.

Someone like Bob Costas doesn't risk his reputation and career by saying things like this over nothing:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-s...-dont-buy-idea-he-was-actively-involved-cover
"But, having read the Freeh report, and then having read some of what's been put out to refute it, I don't buy the idea that he was actively involved in a cover-up.”
 



They are in denial. We should kick them out of the Big Ten and replace them with Notre Dame.
 


Those of us who lived in PA through this issue have been exposed to much more of the intricacies of the story. As I've stated here before, the story originally told by ESPN/national media is way off and left a very misrepresented impression of actual occurrences (the difference between narrative and reality is stark - much greater than that of something we went through in MN - the narrative of the Phil Nelson case prior to its video being released).

Given detailed evidence here, PA residents believe PSU was largely mistreated, in particular by the media narrative that was often downright false, almost always blown out of proportion; and then followed in lightning-fast sequence by overreaching sanctions by a body usurping its own authority while "threatening the death penalty" to blackmail acceptance of those sanctions. That the NCAA worked behind the scenes with Freeh during the writing of his report, which was then used as the basis to apply those sanctions, has not assisted acceptance of the case against Paterno himself, which was tenuous to begin with, at best, and against a man no longer able to defend himself.

Clearly this is not a post that will get "+1" agreements, as most people get disgusted when thinking about the subject and want vengeance. But it does represent the sentiment that is going on in Pennsylvania.


If this is how most people in PA feel, then tell your PA neighbors they are a bunch of f*cking morons. The "narrative" was correct in the first place -- pretty simple on the details that matter. The "new" story is just cluttered with a lot of irrelevant noise. The fact that you have all of these overzealous supporters trying to re-write the story and restore everything to the way it was, shows precisely why PSU found itself in this position in the first place. Precisely. And it shows that they have learned nothing from all of this (vis a vis the environment and exulted status of their football program).

In my personal opinion, this aftermath (PSU trying to undo everything) has made PSU probably my most hated B1G program and fans, even more than Wisconsin. I'd really like to see them leave the conference, honestly.
 

...and I'll add, I don't think Paterno's personal level of responsibility really matters here (whether it was low or high ... I personally think it was somewhere in between). The program received fair penalties and he, like his players, got swept in as is the case with virtually all NCAA penalties. He lost his wins, he lost his statute. Too bad.
 



...and I'll add, I don't think Paterno's personal level of responsibility really matters here (whether it was low or high ... I personally think it was somewhere in between). The program received fair penalties and he, like his players, got swept in as is the case with virtually all NCAA penalties. He lost his wins, he lost his statute. Too bad.

But he didn't lose his wins. They are being restored... So really your statement should be "his wins were restored, his statue was restored"???
 

But he didn't lose his wins. They are being restored... So really your statement should be "his wins were restored, his statue was restored"???

I think we know what wandering is getting at as his posts are spot on. No matter what PSU, the NCAA and Delany restore, Paterno's legacy has been cast in stone and no amount of spin can change it.
 

I think we know what wandering is getting at as his posts are spot on. No matter what PSU, the NCAA and Delany restore, Paterno's legacy has been cast in stone and no amount of spin can change it.

But you can't say "he lost his wins so he lost his statue". Because his wins have been restored. Which means he didn't lose his wins. Like cncmin said you can't take everything the news tells you as fact. There is a reason why his wins were restored. But I agree with you, Paterno's legacy was cast in stone aka a statue was built and you can't change that. So why not let the statue stand.
 

But you can't say "he lost his wins so he lost his statue". Because his wins have been restored. Which means he didn't lose his wins. Like cncmin said you can't take everything the news tells you as fact. There is a reason why his wins were restored. But I agree with you, Paterno's legacy was cast in stone aka a statue was built and you can't change that. So why not let the statue stand.

I see your point but suspect we disagree on the answer to why the wins were restored along with the absolving of all the other penalties. It’s not because there was some overreaching with the original sanctions (which PSU initially agreed to) and/or PSU finding their moral compass. Rather, it was the result of PSU, the NCAA, and Delany selling their souls for the $.

Delany is a coward and sold out the minute the NCAA started backpedaling on PSU’s behalf. And, IMO, since we sleep in the same B1G bed as PSU, it makes us accomplices to this horrendous situation. I partially agree with badgopher in that I wish PSU was kicked-out of the B1G; however, I never want ND anywhere near of conference but that’s another matter.
 

Delany is a coward and sold out the minute the NCAA started backpedaling on PSU’s behalf. And, IMO, since we sleep in the same B1G bed as PSU, it makes us accomplices to this horrendous situation. I partially agree with badgopher in that I wish PSU was kicked-out of the B1G; however, I never want ND anywhere near of conference but that’s another matter.

These are my feeling as well. My biggest issue is with the way Penn State reacted to the whole mess.
 

Those of us who lived in PA through this issue have been exposed to much more of the intricacies of the story. As I've stated here before, the story originally told by ESPN/national media is way off and left a very misrepresented impression of actual occurrences (the difference between narrative and reality is stark - much greater than that of something we went through in MN - the narrative of the Phil Nelson case prior to its video being released).

Given detailed evidence here, PA residents believe PSU was largely mistreated, in particular by the media narrative that was often downright false, almost always blown out of proportion; and then followed in lightning-fast sequence by overreaching sanctions by a body usurping its own authority while "threatening the death penalty" to blackmail acceptance of those sanctions. That the NCAA worked behind the scenes with Freeh during the writing of his report, which was then used as the basis to apply those sanctions, has not assisted acceptance of the case against Paterno himself, which was tenuous to begin with, at best, and against a man no longer able to defend himself.

Clearly this is not a post that will get "+1" agreements, as most people get disgusted when thinking about the subject and want vengeance. But it does represent the sentiment that is going on in Pennsylvania.

Someone like Bob Costas doesn't risk his reputation and career by saying things like this over nothing:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-s...-dont-buy-idea-he-was-actively-involved-cover
"But, having read the Freeh report, and then having read some of what's been put out to refute it, I don't buy the idea that he was actively involved in a cover-up.”

I get your take, but I think you misread people's understanding of Paterno's role in this. I am not necessarily convinced that Paterno was 'actively involved in a cover-up' as Costas states. BUT - I do feel confident based on Paterno's GJ testimony, that he knew something ugly was going on, kicked it upstairs to his 'superiors' (term used sarcastically here given Paterno's clout and influence), and turned away from it. Indifference may not be cover-up, but Paterno had the respect and gravity in the University to put this tragedy to bed, and instead played the dottering old fool who 'never heard of rape between a man and a boy'. The other thing is how Sandusky was allowed to unexpectedly retire from the team in 1998, at the peak of his career. There is a lot of speculation here that he was forced out, for mysterious reasons, and I've always been troubled with not knowing what really went down there. One man for certain knew the details though, Sandusky's close friend. Joe Paterno.
 


I see your point but suspect we disagree on the answer to why the wins were restored along with the absolving of all the other penalties. It’s not because there was some overreaching with the original sanctions (which PSU initially agreed to) and/or PSU finding their moral compass. Rather, it was the result of PSU, the NCAA, and Delany selling their souls for the $.

Delany is a coward and sold out the minute the NCAA started backpedaling on PSU’s behalf. And, IMO, since we sleep in the same B1G bed as PSU, it makes us accomplices to this horrendous situation. I partially agree with badgopher in that I wish PSU was kicked-out of the B1G; however, I never want ND anywhere near of conference but that’s another matter.

#1. Pretty bold statement. Have any evidence to back that up or is that only opinion?
#2. How?
 

I get your take, but I think you misread people's understanding of Paterno's role in this. I am not necessarily convinced that Paterno was 'actively involved in a cover-up' as Costas states. BUT - I do feel confident based on Paterno's GJ testimony, that he knew something ugly was going on, kicked it upstairs to his 'superiors' (term used sarcastically here given Paterno's clout and influence), and turned away from it. Indifference may not be cover-up, but Paterno had the respect and gravity in the University to put this tragedy to bed, and instead played the dottering old fool who 'never heard of rape between a man and a boy'. The other thing is how Sandusky was allowed to unexpectedly retire from the team in 1998, at the peak of his career. There is a lot of speculation here that he was forced out, for mysterious reasons, and I've always been troubled with not knowing what really went down there. One man for certain knew the details though, Sandusky's close friend. Joe Paterno.

Fair post...Paterno most definitely knew something was going on; we can all agree on that. However, after reading a lot on the subject I sincerely have major doubts that he ever knew the gravity of the situation; this based on a large variety evidence I've come across. Clearly he was pretty hands-off about the whole situation (and he was legally forced to be), and keep in mind that he was not actually in charge of Sandusky at the time (Sandusky wasn't his employee), and there was little he could legally do to keep Sandusky away, who had been granted "Emeritus" access at PSU. (Conversely, one can imagine a lawsuit coming his way if he tries to deny someone their legal access based on unfounded allegations.)

Claims of a cover-up by PSU are heavily weakened considering they called Sandusky's charity (The Second Mile) about the McQueary incident (who covers things up by telling others?). Claims of a cover-up by Paterno himself are very weak considering he reported it to the very people he was required to report it to. The McQueary incident itself is heavily weakened considering that the Grand Jury report introduced highly damaging false testimony about that incident that is completely absent of the transcripts (claimed McQueary saw "anal rape", though he certainly never testified such). Those explosive (but false) accusations are what set the firestorm ablaze in the first place.

As for the relationship between Sandusky and Paterno, anything I've heard is that Paterno didn't really like him. I searched for a reference to share; the first I came across was this: http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/08/joe_paterno_biography_describe.html The way I understand it, Sandusky wasn't forced out as DC, he quit to focus on his charity (*ahem!*) after Paterno said he was not going to retire his position to Sandusky. If Paterno didn't like him, then reasons to intentionally cover anything up become increasingly weaker.

Paterno was a figurehead at PSU due to his legend and his kind public personality, but at the time this was going down, Paterno was in hot water (for sudden losing football), and his clout was probably at an all-time low. It would not have been a good time for Paterno to be making any demands.

His reputation is forever tarnished due to this; whether fully justified or only partially justified. The man still built that program, was extremely benovolent and donated greatly back to PSU, and - perhaps in flawed manner - ran a program that was championed across the nation. He prepared many men for their successful futures. For that, perhaps a statue - now flawed - is yet deserved. I'm not saying that I agree with putting it back up - at least not now - however, I understand why many people feel that it should.

All of that said, it can be a very emotional subject, and one that will forever have people of good minds taking completely opposite sides.
 

Newsbusters blog as reliable and trustworthy?

Ha! no...but it was the first link I saw that contained the Costas video. Actually, I read the Newsbusters write-up to make sure it wasn't flaky (I had my doubts) and didn't find anything wrong with it.
 

#1. Pretty bold statement. Got anything to back that up other than your opinion?
#2. How?

#1. Not really. See #2 and yes, this is my opinion along with just about everyone else outside of PA.

#2. Shortly after the NCAA announced PSU's football program was eligible to play in bowl games and restored all their scholarships for 15/16, the B1G followed suit by making them eligible for the conference's title game. And more recently, PSU will get its full bowl revenue share from the B1G starting this season. Of course there were other things in between like restoring the wins. PSU is a cash cow for the NCAA and B1G and all three want to make as much money as possible even if it is at the expense of doing what I believe is the "right thing" (I won't rehash all of that since I have done so extensively in other posts and threads).

I'm guessing you'll counter by noting things like PSU giving $"X" million toward child abuse prevention causes which I won't buy anymore than you'll buy what I have stated. I know you believe that PSU should never have been penalized by the NCAA in the first place whereas I thought they should have received the so-called death penalty. Let's face it, there is nothing that you or I can say to convince the other to change their position on this matter. There is probably a better chance that Michael Bloomberg and Wayne LaPierre will see eye-to-eye on gun control than you and I will on this issue. ;-)
 

#1. Not really. See #2 and yes, this is my opinion along with just about everyone else outside of PA.

#2. Shortly after the NCAA announced PSU's football program was eligible to play in bowl games and restored all their scholarships for 15/16, the B1G followed suit by making them eligible for the conference's title game. And more recently, PSU will get its full bowl revenue share from the B1G starting this season. Of course there were other things in between like restoring the wins. PSU is a cash cow for the NCAA and B1G and all three want to make as much money as possible even if it is at the expense of doing what I believe is the "right thing" (I won't rehash all of that since I have done so extensively in other posts and threads).

I'm guessing you'll counter by noting things like PSU giving $"X" million toward child abuse prevention causes which I won't buy anymore than you'll buy what I have stated. I know you believe that PSU should never have been penalized by the NCAA in the first place whereas I thought they should have received the so-called death penalty. Let's face it, there is nothing that you or I can say to convince the other to change their position on this matter. There is probably a better chance that Michael Bloomberg and Wayne LaPierre will see eye-to-eye on gun control than you and I will on this issue. ;-)

As long as facts and sound logic are the basis of the argument, it's often very good not to see eye-to-eye :)

On a different topic you briefed on above, if PSU is again contributing to B1G bowl revenue, shouldn't they also receive full bowl share? Seems fair to me. You called PSU a "cash cow" for the B1G...if so, then wouldn't that help the Gophers due to revenue sharing? Go PSU?? :p
 

#1. Not really. See #2 and yes, this is my opinion along with just about everyone else outside of PA.

#2. Shortly after the NCAA announced PSU's football program was eligible to play in bowl games and restored all their scholarships for 15/16, the B1G followed suit by making them eligible for the conference's title game. And more recently, PSU will get its full bowl revenue share from the B1G starting this season. Of course there were other things in between like restoring the wins. PSU is a cash cow for the NCAA and B1G and all three want to make as much money as possible even if it is at the expense of doing what I believe is the "right thing" (I won't rehash all of that since I have done so extensively in other posts and threads).

I'm guessing you'll counter by noting things like PSU giving $"X" million toward child abuse prevention causes which I won't buy anymore than you'll buy what I have stated. I know you believe that PSU should never have been penalized by the NCAA in the first place whereas I thought they should have received the so-called death penalty. Let's face it, there is nothing that you or I can say to convince the other to change their position on this matter. There is probably a better chance that Michael Bloomberg and Wayne LaPierre will see eye-to-eye on gun control than you and I will on this issue. ;-)

Unfortunately for your narrative, the NCAA makes the overwhelming majority of its budget from basketball and makes very little from football. Football money goes almost entirely to the conferences.
 

per CBS:

A new Quinnipiac University poll shows an overwhelming majority of Pennsylvanians support the restoration of the controversial bronze statue of Joe Paterno to Penn State's campus, the Associated Press reported Wednesday.

The poll shows a whopping 34-point margin in favor of restoring the statue (59 percent of respondents to 25 percent), which was removed from its previous site near Beaver Stadium in July 2012, some eight months after the late, legendary coach was dismissed in the midst of the Jerry Sandusky sexual abuse scandal.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...ant-joe-paterno-statue-restored-at-penn-state

Go Gophers!!

A 34-point margin in favor of suppressing crimes against children?
 

Those of us who lived in PA through this issue have been exposed to much more of the intricacies of the story. As I've stated here before, the story originally told by ESPN/national media is way off and left a very misrepresented impression of actual occurrences (the difference between narrative and reality is stark - much greater than that of something we went through in MN - the narrative of the Phil Nelson case prior to its video being released).

Given detailed evidence here, PA residents believe PSU was largely mistreated, in particular by the media narrative that was often downright false, almost always blown out of proportion; and then followed in lightning-fast sequence by overreaching sanctions by a body usurping its own authority while "threatening the death penalty" to blackmail acceptance of those sanctions. That the NCAA worked behind the scenes with Freeh during the writing of his report, which was then used as the basis to apply those sanctions, has not assisted acceptance of the case against Paterno himself, which was tenuous to begin with, at best, and against a man no longer able to defend himself.

Clearly this is not a post that will get "+1" agreements, as most people get disgusted when thinking about the subject and want vengeance. But it does represent the sentiment that is going on in Pennsylvania.

Someone like Bob Costas doesn't risk his reputation and career by saying things like this over nothing:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-s...-dont-buy-idea-he-was-actively-involved-cover
"But, having read the Freeh report, and then having read some of what's been put out to refute it, I don't buy the idea that he was actively involved in a cover-up.”

Nice to read a comment on this subject that is not filled with emotion.
 

"But, having read the Freeh report, and then having read some of what's been put out to refute it, I don't buy the idea that he was actively involved in a cover-up.” What does Bob Costas know about pedophilia and those who enable it? Did Paterno go out of his way to cover up events? Who really knows but did he look the other way during the period of time Jerry was at his actions, absolutely.
 

Costas v Freeh? Sportscaster v respected investigator who led some of the nations most important investigations. What has Costas ever done? His degree in Communications certainly must match the JD of Freeh and his commentary must certainly match the motions of Freeh! Surely, Freeh must have been mistaken in his conclusions after taking record of testimony, accounts, papers, emails and depositions from across Pennsylvania State University. The only thing that PSU has accomplished is to discredit the Consent Decree between itself and the NCAA by making the NCAA look like a bunch of clowns. The Freeh Report remains intact as a document un-impugned by the recent court cases. Be that as it may, Costas calling the facts in question by the demise of the Consent Decree is like saying all the evidence is now in question. Far from it. It is intellectual dishonesty to link the two as being one in the same. The Freeh report remains the core critical investigation into the conduct of the administration during the Sandusky era. It's findings of fact to date have not been impeached as unreliable or invalid.

But, let's all listen to the sports commentator. His opinion matters more than Louis Freeh. Got it. We should all be so supportive of the guy who sits behind the microphone. Automatic cred! Right?
 




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