Minnesota native Lu’Cye Patterson commits to the Gophers

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What he is trying to say is if you limit possessions in theory the other team will score less meaning (again in theory) your numbers will improve. That is correct for certain stats but not all and it would definitely not hold up to any sort of real scrutiny.
 






Gophers7633 said:
So you weren't being serious then when you suggested to shoot with 1 second on the clock to "improve our defensive statistics"? Glad we cleared that up, because that was the dumbest shit I've ever read.
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Suggested???
Yeah, let's pass up good shots early in the shot clock and then take whatever shot we can get with 1 second left on the shot clock in order to lower both team's shots attempted.
That way we can lose the game, but that is secondary to lowering both team's shots taken and points scored.
That would have been one hell of a plan to suggest before I get my fxxking head examined!
 

Sane24 said:
Suggested???
Yeah, let's pass up good shots early in the shot clock and then take whatever shot we can get with 1 second left on the shot clock in order to lower both team's shots attempted.
That way we can lose the game, but that is secondary to lowering both team's shots taken and points scored.
That would have been one hell of a plan to suggest before I get my fxxking head examined!
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That's kind of what Wisconsin did in the past. When that kid from Benilde played PG for them he was constantly taking last second shots. They would run the clock down to 10 seconds and if they didn't get a shot the PG would take it.
 



Sane24 said:
Suggested???
Yeah, let's pass up good shots early in the shot clock and then take whatever shot we can get with 1 second left on the shot clock in order to lower both team's shots attempted.
That way we can lose the game, but that is secondary to lowering both team's shots taken and points scored.
That would have been one hell of a plan to suggest before I get my fxxking head examined!
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Damn, you're all over the place.
 

bga1 said:
Stats are never perfect and they do lie a little- but not a lot. Here on Evan Miya we rank 125th on defense and 23rd on pace. Mississippi State is tied with us on pace and they rank #21 on defensive efficiency. Iowa State has just a slightly quicker pace than us and was the #1 defense in the nation.
You have to play well on both ends. Christie was a weak defender, as was Hawkins. So the hope is, what we give up on offense (if we do give up anything) we more than make it up on defense.

evanmiya.com

EvanMiya CBB Analytics

Advanced college basketball analytics, home of the Bayesian Performance Rating
evanmiya.com evanmiya.com
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Hawkins was a very good defender. One of our best. Ive never heard of anyone who thought he was a bad defender. I find your take absolutely bizarre. Yes, there a few specific guards he did not match up with physically, but even in those situations he was a net neutral thanks to his ball pressure, steals, etc. It's notable that even in those rare situations, the staff would not slide Mitchell over to PG. That's because Mitchell, unlike Hawkins, is a poor defender. He does not have the physicality to handle those bigger guards, but also lacks the quickness to stay in front of quicker players. Like Mitchell, the book on Patterson is also that he's slow footed. We absolutely did not get better defensively with the changes at Guard.
 
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Gophers7633 said:
So you weren't being serious then when you suggested to shoot with 1 second on the clock to "improve our defensive statistics"? Glad we cleared that up, because that was the dumbest shit I've ever read.
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I think you guys might be arguing the same point.
 




Costa Rican Gopher said:
Hawkins was a very good defender. One ofnour besr. Ive never heard of anyone who tought he was a bad defender. I find your take absolutely bizarre. Yes, there a few specific guards he did not match up with physically, but even in those situations he was a net neutral thanks to his ball pressure, steals, etc. It's notable that even in those rare situations, the staff would not slide Mitchell over to PG. That's because Mitchell, unlike Hawkins, is a poor defender. He does not have the physicality to handle those bigger guards, but also lacks the quickness to stay in front of quicker players. Like Mitchell, the book on Patterson is also that he's slow footed. We absolutely did not get better defensively with the changes at Guard.
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Yeah we're grasping at straws...hoping that we now have lockdown defense...since we downgraded everywhere else.

Like how we're assuming that Rigsby is a lockdown defender...simply based on the fact that he scored 0 points in 43 minutes.
 


Costa Rican Gopher said:
Hawkins was a very good defender. One ofnour besr. Ive never heard of anyone who tought he was a bad defender. I find your take absolutely bizarre. Yes, there a few specific guards he did not match up with physically, but even in those situations he was a net neutral thanks to his ball pressure, steals, etc. It's notable that even in those rare situations, the staff would not slide Mitchell over to PG. That's because Mitchell, unlike Hawkins, is a poor defender. He does not have the physicality to handle those bigger guards, but also lacks the quickness to stay in front of quicker players. Like Mitchell, the book on Patterson is also that he's slow footed. We absolutely did not get better defensively with the changes at Guard.
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Well, agree to disagree. He had the quickness to stay with guys and the speed to make steals but you could shoot right over him and was easily made into a mismatch. If you PG is a really good defender you aren't going to be ranked 125th on defense. Mike Mitchell had 3 less steals than Hawkins in 90 less minutes. I loved watching Hawkins play but a "very good defender"- he was not. What he did best was get us better shots early in the clock with his speed/pace.

If you would like additional stats Evan Miya has Hawkins as the third lowest rated defender among the top 9 players. Christie was worst, Ola Joseph second worst and Hawkins third worst. That is not the final word on it but it is a datapoint. Patterson, Odukale and Rigsby all rate better than any of those 3 as defenders.
 
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bga1 said:
Well, agree to disagree. He had the quickness to stay with guys and the speed to make steals but you could shoot right over him and was easily made into a mismatch. If you PG is a really good defender you aren't going to be ranked 125th on defense. Mike Mitchell had 3 less steals than Hawkins in 90 less minutes. I loved watching Hawkins play but a "very good defender"- he was not. What he did best was get us better shots early in the clock with his speed/pace.

If you would like additional stats Evan Miya has Hawkins as the third lowest rated defender among the top 9 players. Christie was worst, Ola Joseph second worst and Hawkins third worst. That is not the final word on it but it is a datapoint. Patterson, Odukale and Rigsby all rate better than any of those 3 as defenders.
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You really disliked Christie, that much? Since he entered the free agent market it seems like you’ve taken to taking potshots at him at every opportunity.

I’d welcome him back with open arms. He’s instantly Gophers second best player if by some small chance he comes back.
 

bga1 said:
Well, agree to disagree. He had the quickness to stay with guys and the speed to make steals but you could shoot right over him and was easily made into a mismatch. If you PG is a really good defender you aren't going to be ranked 125th on defense. Mike Mitchell had 3 less steals than Hawkins in 90 less minutes. I loved watching Hawkins play but a "very good defender"- he was not. What he did best was get us better shots early in the clock with his speed/pace.

If you would like additional stats Evan Miya has Hawkins as the third lowest rated defender among the top 9 players. Christie was worst, Ola Joseph second worst and Hawkins third worst. That is not the final word on it but it is a datapoint. Patterson, Odukale and Rigsby all rate better than any of those 3 as defenders.
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When the opposition needed a basket they often targeted Hawkins. It will be nice not to have that problem but how many times did Hawkins make a clutch three or find an open man. I don't see how it isn't a loss.
 

jovs said:
When the opposition needed a basket they often targeted Hawkins. It will be nice not to have that problem but how many times did Hawkins make a clutch three or find an open man. I don't see how it isn't a loss.
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He is a loss. I hated to see him go. We will have to replace him in different ways, with different strengths.
 

SelectionSunday said:
You really disliked Christie, that much? Since he entered the free agent market it seems like you’ve taken to taking potshots at him at every opportunity.

I’d welcome him back with open arms. He’s instantly Gophers second best player if by some small chance he comes back.
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Disliked Christie? Are you kidding? I would LOVE to have him back. He is a super promising player. I fully expect him to get a lot better on defense and on offense. He was a really good shooter last year who was not very good on defense. If he were to return this year, I think he would be a terrific player. That said, I think there is a chance for next year's guys to outplay what last year's guys did last year....but it will have to be different and it will have to be done on defense.

Do you think he was a good defensive player last year?
 
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bga1 said:
He is a loss. I hated to see him go. We will have to replace him in different ways, with different strengths.
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Yes, we will and it's not like we had a choice. We're not alone here. McCaffery lost his veteran point guard too because they couldn't give him as much as he wanted.

Can't get too attached these days. Out with the old and in with the new is the theme of the times.
 

Off-GridTNgopher said:
Y'all arguing over replacing last year's stats... When we're trying to replace what christie, Payne, Hawkins etc would of done this year...
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I've said before and will say again- I would rather have the guys we had last year because of their potential for this year.
Can the group we just brought in end up being better as a team than what he had last year? Yes, that's possible if they build a defensive identity as a team.
 

Off-GridTNgopher said:
Y'all arguing over replacing last year's stats... When we're trying to replace what christie, Payne, Hawkins etc would of done this year...
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True but we'll never know what they would have done here next year and, in the end, talking about hypotheticals would still bring us back to where we are now.
 

just to be clear, I think what some people are saying is that there is more than one way to approach a game of basketball.

if the coaches know what they're doing......(insert Ben Johnson comment here).........they will use the players on their roster in a system that makes the most of the players' strengths and tries to minimize (or hide) their weaknesses.

on paper, the 2024-25 Gophers can produce results that are just as good or better than the 23-24 team - IF the players are used correctly.

now, exactly what that system is.....I can't say with any certainty because I would need a lot more data on the new players, including their physical attributes, strengths and weaknesses.

but on paper, it is possible. now, whether it actually happens is up to the coaches and players.
 

Roland Brooks said:
🤡
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I had to listen to what a bum Coach Johnson is for 3 years. While he built a team from scratch, from nothing. This was going to be the year where you all had to eat your words. But then the team was auctioned off for big money to the highest bidders.

Now I have to sit here and listen to how Coach Johnson needs to be a defensive specialist with a bunch of scrubs or he gets fired for incompetence.
 




And to think that ANYONE of us could do that job twice as well for half that salary!
LOL!
And look at all the help he gets free of charge, from us!
 
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