Yeah, this is completely normal…😳

KillerGopherFan

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More talking out of both sides of your mouth. "They're contributing to the degradation of social norms. I'm being slowly forced to celebrate them! But I have no problem with them!"

Who's forcing you to "celebrate" anything?
It appears that you are. Otherwise, according to you, I’m a bigot.

And I didn’t say that “they” or their existence is contributing to the degradation of social norms. I said that activist political pressure that promotes non-natural behavior is contributing to the degradation. If the activism was only acceptance and tolerance, not normalization and advocacy, I have no problem with that.
What extra rights might those be?
Lots of political movements attempt to get special consideration or protections under the law. Hate crime designation is one that comes to mind. If someone murders someone else, does it matter whether they are gay or not? IMO, it shouldn’t.
 

Wally

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You’re arguing that psychology is pseudo science and I’d agree you might have a point.
Not really a pseudoscience, just that much of it is centered on making people productive members of society. That the supposed disorder may not actually be a disorder if it didn't affect their ability to fit into our current society which in and of itself is pretty mentally destructive.

Autism is a pretty interesting case study, I think it's driven by our society. My sister in law is a speech pathologist and she works with lots of autistic kids. When she meets their parents it's not a mystery why they are autistic, their parents are usually borderline. People with these traits meet up and mate in todays society way more than they ever would have. Much of it due to who they are with in college and the workplace.

My wife and I were worried about this possibility with our kids as we are both leaning towards the autism spectrum, introverts who have trouble reading people. Thankfully we have two girls who seem mostly well adjusted. I would have liked to have more kids but given our ages it felt like playing with fire to have more.
 

Wally

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I said that activist political pressure that promotes non-natural behavior is contributing to the degradation. If the activism was only acceptance and tolerance, not normalization and advocacy, I have no problem with that.
They are advocating to be treated as equal people dumbf!!!
 

Section2

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Not really a pseudoscience, just that much of it is centered on making people productive members of society. That the supposed disorder may not actually be a disorder if it didn't affect their ability to fit into our current society which in and of itself is pretty mentally destructive.

Autism is a pretty interesting case study, I think it's driven by our society. My sister in law is a speech pathologist and she works with lots of autistic kids. When she meets their parents it's not a mystery why they are autistic, their parents are usually borderline. People with these traits meet up and mate in todays society way more than they ever would have. Much of it due to who they are with in college and the workplace.

My wife and I were worried about this possibility with our kids as we are both leaning towards the autism spectrum, introverts who have trouble reading people. Thankfully we have two girls who seem mostly well adjusted. I would have liked to have more kids but given our ages it felt like playing with fire to have more.
It feels like you are just making things up honestly.
 

Wally

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If someone murders someone else, does it matter whether they are gay or not? IMO, it shouldn’t.
It's splitting hairs. I don't have a problem with being a bit more harsh on people who murder out of prejudice as it's real effect is minimal. It's about sending a message. Lots of thing we do in society are more about the message than the reality, sometimes it's justified, sometimes it isn't. Are you really getting hot and bothered over an upward departure for one murder vs another?
Really?
 


Wally

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It feels like you are just making things up honestly.
Making up what?
Explain please?

You think my wife and I haven't discussed the risk of mental or other disorders in our offspring? We have and we decided at 40 we were playing with fire if we had any more kids.
 
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howeda7

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Yeah, I’ve said that I believe it’s at birth and that in the vast majority of cases, it is not a mental disorder.

Why do you and SPG keep arguing with facts that I agree with?
Because you continue to to say contradictory things.

So you don't think "They're contributing to the degradation of social norms"?
 

howeda7

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I’m not a psychologist. Homosexuality is abnormal obviously. I don’t know what qualifies as mental illness.
"I'm not a psychologist."

"Psychologists almost universally agree that it's natural and not a mental disorder."

"They only say that because of leftist politics!"

"What you do think think then?"

"I'm not a psychologist."

This is one stupid circle. Being left-handed is abnormal, but it's a natural variation, not a mental illness. Either you accept this or you don't.

It’s classification doesn’t change my view one way or the other. People should be free to be gay or straight with no interference from government.
Sure. But only if 2-topian rules are in place. Until then, you're fine if they're not treated equally.
 

KillerGopherFan

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Because you continue to to say contradictory things.

So you don't think "They're contributing to the degradation of social norms"?
I don’t think “they“ are. I think political activism is. The political activists don’t speak for all people or subsets of people, but their whole purpose is to push an agenda.

I don’t say contradictory things. You just don’t discriminate my comments well. You almost always re-phrase my arguments. Just read what I post. Stop interpreting with your bias. I say what I mean and mean what I say.
 





howeda7

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It appears that you are. Otherwise, according to you, I’m a bigot.
False. No one is asking you to celebrate anything.


And I didn’t say that “they” or their existence is contributing to the degradation of social norms. I said that activist political pressure that promotes non-natural behavior is contributing to the degradation. If the activism was only acceptance and tolerance, not normalization and advocacy, I have no problem with that.
You continue to play both sides. I'm "tolerant" but don't "normalize". Again what is the difference? And don't "promote". No one is "promoting" anything.

Lots of political movements attempt to get special consideration or protections under the law. Hate crime designation is one that comes to mind. If someone murders someone else, does it matter whether they are gay or not? IMO, it shouldn’t.
If hate crimes legislation is the only "special" right, I don't think you need to be jealous. Maybe be glad you don't need one.
 

KillerGopherFan

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False.



If hate crimes legislation is the only "special" right, I don't think you need to be jealous. Maybe be glad you don't need one.
Again...you say things that I didn’t say. I did not say it is the “only”. I said it’s “one that comes to mind”.

But I’m not going to make a list of things for you, so that you can continue to deflect from the main points.
 



howeda7

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Again...you say things that I didn’t say. I did not say it is the “only”. I said it’s “one that comes to mind”.

But I’m not going to make a list of things for you, so that you can continue to deflect from the main points.
You can't come up with another one because their aren't any.
 


howeda7

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I would never hire a left handed abomination!!!!
Thank God I have that freedom!
You'll have to move to 2-Topia first. Bring lots of change for the private toll roads.
 

KillerGopherFan

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You can't come up with another one because their aren't any.
Most of the laws that give special rights are designed to be anti-discrimination laws. They include protections in employment, housing, service, crime against them, etc.

They are usually state laws and don’t exist in every state, but in many states they do.

These special interest activists want these protections.

So, for example, if a service provider declines to serve a person and is allowed to do so, which they are, how are we supposed to know when someone has been declined a service b/c they are gay? A gay person can claim this. I can’t. Extra-legal protection.

This is true of any special interest group that has extra-legal protections.
 

MplsGopher

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I just want to say thank you for using whom correctly. Whom takes the object.
You really think that someone silly enough to think that discrimination should be legal simply because it wouldn't happen in the majority of cases, would actually know the difference between object pronouns and subject pronouns?
 

Wally

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Most of the laws that give special rights are designed to be anti-discrimination laws. They include protections in employment, housing, service, crime against them, etc.

They are usually state laws and don’t exist in every state, but in many states they do.

These special interest activists want these protections.

So, for example, if a service provider declines to serve a person and is allowed to do so, which they are, how are we supposed to know when someone has been declined a service b/c they are gay? A gay person can claim this. I can’t. Extra-legal protection.

This is true of any special interest group that has extra-legal protections.
Maybe we need special protection for right wing nutjobs.
🤷🏼‍♂️
 

MplsGopher

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if a service provider declines to serve a person and is allowed to do so, which they are, how are we supposed to know when someone has been declined a service b/c they are gay?
The service provider explicitly tells you so, which is the only time they actually get sued.

Would be exactly the same if you went to a bakery, asked for a cake of a man marrying a woman, and they told you "sorry I won't serve to straights".


Literally zero is "special" about people who have been denied the same rights as everyone else, then being (finally) awarded those rights. It's just called "everyone getting the same rights".
 

howeda7

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So, for example, if a service provider declines to serve a person and is allowed to do so, which they are, how are we supposed to know when someone has been declined a service b/c they are gay? A gay person can claim this. I can’t. Extra-legal protection.

This is true of any special interest group that has extra-legal protections.
Sure you can. Banning discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation applies to everyone. If you go to a business and they refuse to serve you because you are straight, they are violating the very same law. Just because that will probably never happen to you doesn't mean the law doesn't apply to you equally.

And since you seem very afraid that due to "decaying social norms" and "slippery slopes" that will happen to you someday, you should be glad such laws are in place. Sue the bastards!
 

KillerGopherFan

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Update for those who might be interested; @saintpaulguy, @howeda7, @Section2

This is where the conversation started. My objection to “normalizing“ abnormal, possibly illegal behavior, and the gradual erosion of social norms. howie managed to make it a conversation about homosexuality, but that isn’t the point of my argument.

It is about the attempt to “normalize” abnormal or non-natural behavior and the political activism that attempts to create new social norms.

Well, point for the good guys!


And yes MplsGopher, the professor was trying to legitimize pedophilia and pedophiles, or as howie wants us to call them “minor attracted people”, by “de-stigmatizing“ it, as the above article puts it.

From the professor (but you really need to watch the videos):

…In a video to promote the book, Walker said: 'A lot of people when they hear the word pedophile, they automatically assume that means sex offender. That isn't true. And it leads to a lot of misconceptions.'

They suggested pedophiles should be able to use childlike sex dolls to satisfy their urges and stop them from targeting actual children, and they 'didn't ask' to be sexually attracted to kids…
 

KillerGopherFan

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Sure you can. Banning discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation applies to everyone. If you go to a business and they refuse to serve you because you are straight, they are violating the very same law. Just because that will probably never happen to you doesn't mean the law doesn't apply to you equally.

And since you seem very afraid that due to "decaying social norms" and "slippery slopes" that will happen to you someday, you should be glad such laws are in place. Sue the bastards!
Sure I can. Great example. 🙄

Besides, you’re wrong. Most of these laws are designed only to protect “discriminated groups”. White male heterosexuals are not a discriminated group…supposedly.

BTW, I can’t use the women’s bathroom b/c I’m a man. Am I being discriminated against? People with male genitalia that identify as a woman are fighting for that right.
 
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howeda7

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And yes MplsGopher, the professor was trying to legitimize pedophilia and pedophiles, or as howie wants us to call them “minor attracted people”, by “de-stigmatizing“ it, as the above article puts it.
Liar. I said nothing of the sort. I have not defended them once in this thread at all. It's a crime. Period.

You whine about your both sides comments being mischaracterized and then you make up disgusting things like this out of whole cloth. FU! as you would say.
 
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howeda7

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Sure I can. Great example. 🙄

Besides, you’re wrong. Most of these laws are designed only to protect “discriminated groups”. White male heterosexuals are not a discriminated group…supposedly.
White heterosexual males can be discriminated against. Obviously you feel they already are.
 

KillerGopherFan

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Liar. I said nothing of the sort. I have not defended them once in this thread at all. It's a crime. Period.

You whine about your both sides comments being mischaracterized and then you make up disgusting things like this out of whole cloth. FU! as you would say.
Just giving you a sample of your own business.

“Lighten up Francis”
 



howeda7

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But they generally don’t have special laws to protect them.
Any law that protects anyone on the basis of sexual orientation, race or gender applies to them. They have the same "special" rights which is why they aren't special. Stop being dense.
 

KillerGopherFan

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Sure. Just casual lying insinuation that I defend pedophilia.

I've done nothing remotely the same. Screw you.
I guess I have to remind you, you’re the one the equated gays to pedophiles. I mentioned nothing about gays or comparisons to gays/homosexuals in my original post.

I haven’t even compared them since you did. The only comparison that I make is a political activist attempting to normalize a behavior.

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