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Schnoodler

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Since we're actually starting to get close to the season maybe we could start talking football. Maybe even without flaming and other unnecessary deriding of our Gopher Squad.

So I'll start a thread about the WR's.

McKnight seems to feel like he's somewhat proven enough to lock down a starting spot, but how about the rest? And what do we know about the new kids in town.

Please contribute to a discussion that will maybe increase our knowledge and understanding of the WR's on the Gopher roster.
 

Green will be a Junior. I think he could be very good slot receiver. I like Green in the slot, McKnight on the outside along with Stoudermire, and Lair catching passes underneath. Or, is Euree ready to go as the catching TE? It will be interesting to see who else can emerge at WR (Keise, Carpenter, Brandon, etc), - it would be nice to get some depth on the field.
 

Here's my two cents:

Green: It's finally time to see if he can develop into the type of threat that many people thought he could out of high school. I wouldn't say he's been disappointing, but I guess I did expect a little more...but it was just his freshman and sophomore years.

McKnight: A wonderful surprise considering his lack of experience at the position. One would think he'd only continue to improve.

Stoudamire: I've always felt that he's too inconsistent to be one of your top 2 WRs, but he could be one hell of a threat in the hands of a creative offensive coordinator.

Keise: Judging from his high school highlights (obviously not gospel) he always struck me as a very professional receiver...good route runner and trustworthy hands. I've been excited to see him play, and I expect him to do some great things eventually. Not sure if it will be this year, though.

Carpenter: Who knows. Apparently someone, somewhere thought this kid had a lot of talent. We sure didn't see it last year.

Brandon: Been hearing good things, but I honestly have no idea what to expect.
 

I first will say that I see this position group as relatively strong. The reason I say this is because we have a majority of upperclassmen that we will depend on to get the bulk of the units work done. That is a general objective in college football to be successful. However, the WR position is commonly infultrated by star studded underclassmen that do not warrant waiting in line.

To be frank, we have no immediate immpact receivers in my opinion in the '10 class. But that is fine because McNight and Stoudemire have the goods to get conference recognithon; Green has very solid experience and have shown the ability to go up and make sure handed catches in the clutch. We will need more of that. And Carpenter apparently disappointed some, but I think he is likely to break out this year. Big Time Big Ten Physicality takes some time to get use to sometimes but he is likely to be a regular in the rotation. He just has to believe that those clear patterns are very important and that the ball may be heaved out their for him on any play.

Assuming Allen makes it back healthy, he will be regular in the rotation as well. A healthy Brandon would provide a surge also.
 

GopherHomer said:
Brandon: Been hearing good things, but I honestly have no idea what to expect.
Click to expand...
That's what I've been hearing too, it would be good to see him step up this year.
 


Interesting group.

The one nice thing is teams playing against us early in the year are going to have a hard time deciding who to shut down because no one has shown to be great yet. Green and McKnight are the two likely starters but you have to hope Brandon and Kiese can bring something to the table. Kiese is the one I am interested in seeing play as he seemed to be a well rounded WR coming to the Gophers our of high school. Brandon is a bigger WR that could do some damage in the right spot. I just hope we see some of the talent that we recruited step up on the field and show why it was rated so highly. Some of the best in this group were not highly thought of.

I am not sure what to think of the TE's. Lair needs to step up as he has done very little in Maroon and Gold and I am not a big fan of JUCO's so we will see how that plays out. The biggest key for the passing game might be more about the running game and line play rather than the actual WRs.
 

McKnight has the athleticism and size to be a 1 or 2. He is still learning the game still and has the most upside of anyone on the roster.

Green can't stay healthy, I think he has the ability to be a number 2 if he steps his game up. He has not shown it yet.

Stoudamire has catching issues, but is great with the ball. He is a slot receiver/ KR.

Allen is still pretty young. He seems to have better hands than stoudamire. Slot WR this year, maybe more in the future. PR.

Carpenter has the speed to be a threat out of the slot, but i have a hard time beleiving he will overtake Allen or Stoudamire for serious time. He is a 5th receiver at best.

Brandon and Keise are TBD.

McKnight = 1
Green = 2+
Stoudamire = 3+
Allen = 3+
Carpenter = 5+
Keise = TBD
Brandon = TBD
 

This group needs to step up the mental aspects of the game big time this year.
For all of Weber's faults, and there are plenty, the receivers -Decker and NTA last year, were not running good routes consistently. that said, the physical part of the game is not a problem for the remaining group.

Mcknight- I see him as a legit #1 or 2, he can get jump balls, and has just enough speed to matter, his game is similar to Decker's, though he hasn't proven the consistency yet.

Stoudemire-Amazing quicks, we all know that, he had too many dropped balls last year though.
I am just begging for Horton to give him 2-3 designed quick screens/runs a game, quick reverses, end arounds, whatever, give him the ball in space. He CAN be a playmaker.

Green-Somewhat consistent, he has made some really nice catches when he's been called on.
I'd like to see him really develop into a solid route runner/seam guy.

Allen-My pick for the breakout offensive player, speed/quicks/acceleration in spades. I thought he did a nice job maturing as the season went on last year, anyone that effectively return punts as a true freshman in the Big10 has got some intestinal fortitude.

Keise/Brandon/Carpenter- we'll see, anything they can give us can only help.
 

I really like McKnight. I think he'll be great as a Senior, but he's still on a steep learning curve. I don't think he has the skills yet to deal with a double, so we really do need as others have said, for the other kids to step up the game. One mistake I think Fisch made was to do away with a possession type guy with sure routes. Maybe he just thought Decker nullified that need, I don't know. But I think with Horton he's going to want a sure third option at all times. I think Weber will respond well to that. I think Green can be that guy, if not I'll be watching Kiese and see how he gets used.
 



The potential is there to have a really good group of recievers. With Decker being gone last year for half the season that gave Weber and his receivers sometime to gel. This year the recievers need to step up and play to their potential. Minnesota could have a really good recieving crew these next two years, but these kids need to step it up big time.
 

The one thing that scares me about stoud is his inconsistency. Since our QB is inconsistent also you put the two of those together and you ahve the chance for many drives to be stalled by dropped balls/overthrow/under thrown balls. I do like him at the 2 b/c of his ability to eat up space quickly. He can stretch a defense and create spaces underneath for our TE's, RB's and slot WR's. Unfortunately the further he gets away from the LoS the less confidence I have in him catching the ball. I think he'll end up playing both the flanker and the slot positions. Allen should be rotating in for him.

I like Green in the slot. I think he has great hands and has the ability to adjust on a ball while running down field. I am not confident about his route running separation ability to be the number 2 guy. I think he has the potential to be our first down person by running complimentary routes with our TE's. I think b/c of his ability to block he'll get some time at the flanker spot, and since he has the ability to adjust and catch balls down field he'll get reps when we execute play-action. Since he doesn't have the illusive quickness like a stoud and allen, he won't be seen as a slot receiver, but I think he will be one of our better receivers running the slant, the quick out, and some option routes from the inside.

I think there is a spot open for someone to take the flanker if they can block, get separation and catch the ball consistency. That provides a lot of motivation for green, keise, carpentor etc to get better this summer fall.
 

McKnight--This guy is the real deal talent wise. He showed flashes last year, but was inconsistent and had a bad case of drop-itis (see easy missed TD catches against both Illinois and Iowa. Those both hurt--a lot)

However, this spring in both the open scrimmage and spring game he caught everything put anywhere near him. I was particularly impressed with his ability to go up and rip the ball away from the defenders even when he didn´t have position and the ball wasn´t on the money. Barring injury, this kid is gonna be special.

Green---He is the enigma. Extremely sure handed, he made some spectacular catches last season in clutch situations (the 3rd down catch on the game winning drive against Syracuse stands out. So does his highlight reel TD catch against Michigan State). However, as another poster noted he doesn´t always create separation, and what worries me is his the fact that he has not yet shown the ability (or possibly inclination) to fight for the ball. I was disappointed by him in the open scrimmage and spring game for this reason---if there was a defender in position he didn´t make the catch. He can be a solid number 2, but he´s gotta want it more every play.

Stoudemire--so much ability but equal inconsistency. Stoudemire is that speed WR who can stretch the field and hit a home run at any time. However, he needs to run more consistent routes and catch the ball better

Bryant Allen--he has a similar skill set to TS but I think BA will have a better career. He has better hands, better moves, and may be a shade faster (he is certainly quicker). I was disappointed when he got injured because I believe he is the ideal slot WR and will supplant TS if healthy (TS will still be invaluable as a KR man).

Hayo Carpenter--what can I say about this guy except that he´s been nothing but disappointing. I gave up on him during the Cal game last year. He had a sure TD on that KR reverse if he could simply run outside of his blocker, the last one between him and the endzone. Instead he ran INTO his blocker denying the Gophers a sure 6 points. If you can´t run routes or follow a simple block on a KR then, IMHO you are too stupid to play football. Posters here know I am an optimist but I have nothing good to say about Hayo except that after this year he won´t be taking up a scholly.

Brandon and Keise--interesting prospects. I had a hard time developing an opinion of them this spring. Others believe these guys are ready to break out. I hope they are correct.

I will say that WR and RB are the positions I´m most concerned about heading into this year. I feel really good about McKnight, now it´s time for Green and either BA or TS to step up to fill the void.
 

I like Green and McKnight. Hopefully Brandon and Allen can overcome their injuries.
 



It seems to me that most of the people in this thread (other than Ole & AhliBobwa) are sleeping on Allen. It wouldn't surprise me at all if at the end of the season McKnight is #1 in yards & Allen is #2. McKnight has proven adept at getting open down the field and using his big body to shield DB's. Allen seems more likely to catch one underneath, make one guy miss and then he is gone. I'm sure with our new offense we'll see Allen (and Stoudermire) go in motion and take the end around if the defense starts collapsing on the dive (a staple of the Wisconsin offense).

I still don't know what to think of Green. He has shown flashes as an outstanding possession WR each of the last two years but will disappear for long periods of time. I guess it is good that Weber feels confident throwing to him on important 3rd downs and he has made some big catches but I've always wondered why he hasn't been a bigger part of the offense.

As has been mentioned, Stoudermire is quick and good in space but can be inconsistent. The primary issue with his inconsistency is that he doesn't have very good hands for a WR. I have been saying for a while that I think Bryant Allen is starting ahead of Stoudermire by the end of the season but because of his skills we still have to find a way to get touches for one of our better playmakers.

I have no idea what to expect from Carpenter, Brandon or Keise so I'll just hope that they surprise me.
 

I know this isn't specifically receiver related, but I followed Adam Rittenberg's Big Ten Chat today and someone asked if Weber could return to his 2nd team all Big Ten stature. Rittenberg said it's possible that he could have a good season, but considering all the solid qbs in the conference this year. In the guys question he mentioned that Chris Mortenson said Adam turned a lot of heads at Peyton Mannings camp recently (not an exact quote).
 

gophmeister said:
I know this isn't specifically receiver related, but I followed Adam Rittenberg's Big Ten Chat today and someone asked if Weber could return to his 2nd team all Big Ten stature. Rittenberg said it's possible that he could have a good season, but considering all the solid qbs in the conference this year. In the guys question he mentioned that Chris Mortenson said Adam turned a lot of heads at Peyton Mannings camp recently (not an exact quote).
Click to expand...

I still maintain Adam has one of the better arms in the league. Not NFL calibre, but who does? I also thought all the gains he had made through the first two years were meaningless in Fisch's scheme. Horton will do a much better job working with what Adam has to offer while minimizing his deficiencies. I believe our offense was talented last year. I also believe we completely sucked. That's not the players, that's the coaches. And I like our position coaches. So now we have Horton who understands the college game, and the college QB. I expect a return of a possession route reciever, a big target who can use his body for position and a more defined RB/TE bailout dump pass. I also expect Adam to be moving more.

To me college ball differs because of the big play. There are two approaches. One is to either go vertcal and crafty play after play with the hopes that you'll connect on one of the three and get your first down or more. Or to do simple and high percentage and depend on the talent of your kids and the mistakes of the opponent to create the big play. Fisch, was the first. I think Horton and Cosgrove are the latter.
 

I did a little computing to see if my perceptions of Fisch were correct in that he was more vertical. I think when analyzing the WR's it's important to consider how the game plan might change.

What I did was to calculate the yards per catch and then rank the B10 teams in order. Just because the numbers were easily to include I'll add the sack totals. I'll also add the completion % for giggles.

Team.....YPC.....Sacks.....&
MiSt......13.8.....14.....59.8
Iowa.....13.6.....29.....54.0
Minn.....13.3.....40......51.1
OSU......13.2.....23.....54.3
PSU......12.8.....17......61.6
Wisc.....12.6.....23......63.4
Ill.........12.6.....29......55.6
Mich......12.6.....25.....57.4
Purd......11.2......20.....60.6
Ind........10.9......11.....61.8
NW........10.8......31.....65.1
 

I am really excited to see what some of the young talent coming in can accomplish especially James Green. The kid is an absolute machine! Both Chris Hawkins and Marquise Hill could also come in early and see some great production....

Oh how different I thought this conversation would be different back in December; especially at a position, perhaps like no other, that young players can come in and make huge impacts [At the time, for what it is worth, I was pretty sure Kenny Bell and/or Dom Sanders would be in this discussion too]. Well I know wide receiver is a huge area of need for recruiting!
/Lament_offseason :p

But as toward the kids who are actually [knock on wood] going to see the field, I am really hoping that Brandon Green can achieve some of the potential he had coming out of high school especially in be able to be a home run hitter. He has the hands, and we have seen plenty of flashes in his underclass years. I am hoping it all gels.

I agree that Allen may have a higher ceiling than Stoudemire and brings similar post catch potential in agility and elusiveness.

I don't know if Da'Jon McKnight is Decker part Deux but I appreciate the expectations many have for him. He did look like he was able to go up and get the ball this spring after coming on strong at the end of last season. Along that vein:

Though not wide receivers, Eure and Lair hold a ton of potential to be real go to threats in the redzone, and will likely be integral to the new streamlined pro set we will see under Horton. With nothing really to back it up, given the limited amount we've seen Lair and Eure obviously being a transfer, I hold a lot of optimism for the tight ends to rise to the occasion. Hopefully, along with some elevated line/qb performance, they will be part of a much more potent offense.
 

Schnoodler said:
I did a little computing to see if my perceptions of Fisch were correct in that he was more vertical. I think when analyzing the WR's it's important to consider how the game plan might change.
Click to expand...

This is the crux of what was wrong with Fisch's offense. We ran the ball, but everyone knew the minute that failed we'd immediately throw the low percentage passes down field in order to catch up. Not an effective strategy for us. If I don't see at least one screen pass in the first four games, I will be disappointed. Bennett would be ideal for that. He seems to have good hands and when he has space he can be elusive. I like Bennett and Eskeridge, but neither is an every down back.
 

gophmeister said:
This is the crux of what was wrong with Fisch's offense. We ran the ball, but everyone knew the minute that failed we'd immediately throw the low percentage passes down field in order to catch up. Not an effective strategy for us. If I don't see at least one screen pass in the first four games, I will be disappointed. Bennett would be ideal for that. He seems to have good hands and when he has space he can be elusive. I like Bennett and Eskeridge, but neither is an every down back.
Click to expand...

What I disliked the most about Fisch's play calling was that once he found some success and began to establish a rhythm, he would lose the momentum by calling either an ill conceived trick play or bring in MG, both of which switched away from what was working.

The few times they ran the screen last year, it seems the blockers weren't sure who they were blocking. I'm sure Horton will have this one ironed out and we'll see better success with it.
 

I really believe the biggest problem with our offense last year was mental. Too often it looked like Weber and the WRs weren't on the same page.

I think another year in the same offense is being way undervalued by a lot of people. Combine that with a reportedly simplified scheme and playbook, and I believe we'll see much improved play from our WRs(and everyone else, for that matter).
 

Kratos3 said:
I really believe the biggest problem with our offense last year was mental. Too often it looked like Weber and the WRs weren't on the same page.

I think another year in the same offense is being way undervalued by a lot of people. Combine that with a reportedly simplified scheme and playbook, and I believe we'll see much improved play from our WRs(and everyone else, for that matter).
Click to expand...

The confusion on offense was apparent many times during the season and strangely seemed to get worse towards the end of season. How did we not score an offensive TD versus SDSU? You bring up a good point on many passing plays last year it was not even Weber bounce passing to receivers it was he zigged and Weber threw to where he should have zagged. Hopefully Horton is good medicine along with keeping the basics offense the same. Also, Steve Watson strikes me has a hard working guy that hopefully will have an impact on these guys.
 

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