will the hammer come down on USC?

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bankonit

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or will the NCAA gloss over their wrongdoings like they have for years? It is hilarious that they say they are looking into "possible wrongdoings" possible? Everybody and their mother's know USC doe not follow any rules. That program is very dirty.
 

NOTHING SERIOUS WILL HAPPEN. JUST LIKE POLIYICAL PARTYS, IF THE OTHER SIDE DID IT IT'S BAD BUT NO BIG DEAL IF OUR GUY DID IT. USC IS ON THE NCAA'S SIDE!!!!
 

USC deserves the death penalty. The one reason I still have hope they get it is that Pete Carroll high tailed it out of town. He basically took a demotion. The USC gig is arguably the cushiest job in college football, and he left that to coach a middling NFL team. Considering his mediocre past in the NFL, I find it hard to believe he would leave Troy if he didn´t think the hammer was coming down hard.

Anything less than a multiple season bowl ban will be too little punishment. I for one, am excited at the prospect of the Gophers facing a Trojan team with nothing to play for. That, combined with Kiffin´s arrogance could be a great recipe for an upset in Minneapolis this fall.
 

AhliBobwa said:
USC deserves the death penalty. The one reason I still have hope they get it is that Pete Carroll high tailed it out of town. He basically took a demotion. The USC gig is arguably the cushiest job in college football, and he left that to coach a middling NFL team. Considering his mediocre past in the NFL, I find it hard to believe he would leave Troy if he didn´t think the hammer was coming down hard.

Anything less than a multiple season bowl ban will be too little punishment. I for one, am excited at the prospect of the Gophers facing a Trojan team with nothing to play for. That, combined with Kiffin´s arrogance could be a great recipe for an upset in Minneapolis this fall.
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I hope you are right and I have the same hope because Pete Carroll got out of town for the first opening thrown his way.
 

bankonit said:
I hope you are right and I have the same hope because Pete Carroll got out of town for the first opening thrown his way.
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I heard some moron on espn radio the other day say: Because Carroll skipped town, USC will/should not get punished. Just his opinion, but he basically said Carroll is the one who should get punished, but since that is now not an option, why punish the players and new coach? Flawed logic for sure, but that is what will probably happen knowing how things work with the ncaa.
 


I also feel that there might be some serious consequences for USC. Sneaky Pete could have been coach for life if he wanted to stay there. A guy with his reputation as a skirt chaser doesn't just flee the beautiful women of California for the tree hugging, hairy arm pit gals of Seattle.
 

AhliBobwa said:
USC deserves the death penalty.
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Um no. I'd be cool with some harsh penalties like 2 years of bowl bans, but this isn't a death penalty worthy scandal. Even if we agree to disagree its a moot point. If Alabama didn't get the death penalty when their boosters literally paid money in paper sacks to get players to come to Bama, then USC is not going to get it for agents buying things for Reggie Bush outside of the control of the University. The 2 aren't even on the same level.
 

GoAUpher said:
Um no. I'd be cool with some harsh penalties like 2 years of bowl bans, but this isn't a death penalty worthy scandal. Even if we agree to disagree its a moot point. If Alabama didn't get the death penalty when their boosters literally paid money in paper sacks to get players to come to Bama, then USC is not going to get it for agents buying things for Reggie Bush outside of the control of the University. The 2 aren't even on the same level.
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Perhaps I overstated things. If you read the rest of my post I wrote that anything less than a 2 year postseason ban is too little punishment. I would be more than happy with a 2 year bowl ban which would damage recruiting and lead to massive attrition of current players.

The look on Lane Kiffin´s face after the bowl ban combined with the look on his face when he loses to the Golden Gophers, a team that refused to hire him=priceless.
 

I don't think the NCAA has the balls to seriously punish a school of the profile of USC. They did that once with SMU, and they seem reluctant to do it again. Now if this was Lower Podunk State, they would make an example of them.
 



RodentRampage said:
I don't think the NCAA has the balls to seriously punish a school of the profile of USC. They did that once with SMU, and they seem reluctant to do it again. Now if this was Lower Podunk State, they would make an example of them.
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Your post shows how clueless you are on the entire NCAA. One school has received a death penalty and that was SMU. No little Lower Podunk State school has. The reason why SMU received the "death penalty" is because it was already on probation for the same kind of stuff. The NCAA has learned that doing that destroys a school, which is why they hit teams where it hurts (removing championships, taking away tournament money, scholarships, bowl games). And hitting coaches with show causes. You'll see more show causes, because it is the one way you can punish a school/coach for being shady and not destroy a program.
 

NCgopher said:
Your post shows how clueless you are on the entire NCAA. One school has received a death penalty and that was SMU. No little Lower Podunk State school has. The reason why SMU received the "death penalty" is because it was already on probation for the same kind of stuff. The NCAA has learned that doing that destroys a school, which is why they hit teams where it hurts (removing championships, taking away tournament money, scholarships, bowl games). And hitting coaches with show causes. You'll see more show causes, because it is the one way you can punish a school/coach for being shady and not destroy a program.
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Since it is you calling me clueless, I feel more confident that I'm on target.

Since SMU, the NCAA has handed out the death penalty twice: soccer at Morehouse College for 2004 and 2005 and MacMurray College for tennis for 2006 and 2007.
 

RodentRampage said:
Since it is you calling me clueless, I feel more confident that I'm on target.

Since SMU, the NCAA has handed out the death penalty twice: soccer at Morehouse College for 2004 and 2005 and MacMurray College for tennis for 2006 and 2007.
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RR: You're completely correct on the facts, but I suspect that NC is prob correct on the NCAA's general feeling towards the death penalty and DI football. After what happened to SMU I suspect it is unlikely that the death penalty ever gets applied to a FBS football team b/c of the implications for the wider athletic dept (since FB is the primary money maker for schools).
 

GoAUpher said:
RR: You're completely correct on the facts, but I suspect that NC is prob correct on the NCAA's general feeling towards the death penalty and DI football. After what happened to SMU I suspect it is unlikely that the death penalty ever gets applied to a FBS football team b/c of the implications for the wider athletic dept (since FB is the primary money maker for schools).
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When he counts his fingers correctly, I'll be impressed. I just think that the NCAA would be less likely to impose the death penalty on a team of USC's stature than they would against a lower profile team. The impact of SMU's death penalty went far beyond SMU. Had the SWC stayed intact, it would be a BCS conference today, and the teams that had to find homes in lesser conferences would be higher profile today.
 



RodentRampage said:
When he counts his fingers correctly, I'll be impressed. I just think that the NCAA would be less likely to impose the death penalty on a team of USC's stature than they would against a lower profile team. The impact of SMU's death penalty went far beyond SMU. Had the SWC stayed intact, it would be a BCS conference today, and the teams that had to find homes in lesser conferences would be higher profile today.
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No argument here. :)
 

Then penalty will be something like this

Loss of up to 6 scholarships per year for four years. Restricting recruiting times by coaches. No bowl games for 4 years.
 

seeing as the NCAA is all about precedent...

can any of you list a similar case and the subsequent penalty?

bankonit...you are pure genius buddy. just brilliant.

Can anyone provide a brief summary of charges levvied against USC?

if sc get a two year TV ban...will you still be jumping up and down when NO ONE gets to see the gophers pull the greatest upset in their modern era?

hate away!
 

husker70 said:
Loss of up to 6 scholarships per year for four years. Restricting recruiting times by coaches. No bowl games for 4 years.
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really? is there a precedent for that heavy of a punishment given the evidence?
 

I hope they nail USC good. strip Bush of his heisman. Stip USC of it 2005 National championship.
 

Look Up Alabama 1993

The NCAA levied 38 scholarships lossed over 4 years and 4 years post season ban. Later reduced to 23 lossed scholarships and 2 years post seasn ban.
 

As Jerry Tarkanian once said, the NCAA is so mad at USC they will give Cleveland State 3 more years of probation.
 

husker70 said:
The NCAA levied 38 scholarships lossed over 4 years and 4 years post season ban. Later reduced to 23 lossed scholarships and 2 years post seasn ban.
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The N.C.A.A. Committee on Infractions cited three principal violations:

*Contrary to N.C.A.A. rules, an Alabama player accepted six loans from boosters in 1989 and 1990. The loans, totaling $24,400, were never repaid.

*Another player was allowed to play in 11 regular-season games in 1993 although he had signed with an agent. The N.C.A.A. said Alabama officials did not pursue the matter diligently and did not notify the N.C.A.A. until almost 11 months after the signing.

*The university's faculty athletics representative gave the N.C.A.A. "false and misleading information."


If we take the word of two ex-cons as gospel, reggie signed with new era sports marketing prior to his junior year, and his parents were on the take.

there were no booster payouts and no false or misleading information on behalf of the AD. san diego is 2 hours south of LA, yet public opinion (and Yahoo Sports) insist that SC should have known about the housing arrangements of reggie's parents.

you are willing to equate these two on equal footing and equal punishment?

I see forfeiture of victories for 2005, and a potential loss of scholarships/recruiting restrictions under a "Failure to Monitor" charge, but anything greater than that is grandstanding on behalf of the NCAA (which of course is totally possible.)
 

RodentRampage said:
Since it is you calling me clueless, I feel more confident that I'm on target.

Since SMU, the NCAA has handed out the death penalty twice: soccer at Morehouse College for 2004 and 2005 and MacMurray College for tennis for 2006 and 2007.
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Please don't compare SMU to MacMurray and Morehouse. The latter did not receive a death penalty. A death penalty is not just suspending a team for a year or two. Because in that case every D3 school who has a team suspended for giving money (like MacMurrary) would receive the death penalty. Below I have been kind enough to give you the summary of each schools violations and their punishment.

There is a HUGE difference between D3 and D1. SMU had 4 leading up to the 1987 case (in which they received the death penalty). MacMurrary only has 1 violation on the record (see below) and Morehouse has 1 (on file with the NCAA).



MacMurray:
Violation Sumary: Violations of major infractions in the men's tennis program regarding impermissible financial aid for international tennis student-athletes arranged by the former head men's tennis coach.

Penalty Summary: Public reprimand and censure; four years of probation; the university is prohibited from allowing its men's tennis program to participate against outside competition during the 2005-06 and 2006-07 academic years; during the final two years of probation, the men's tennis teams shall end its seasons with the playing of its last regularly scheduled, in-season contest and shall not be eligible to participate in any postseason competition following those seasons; the former head men's tennis coach was removed from his coaching responsibilities by the institution; a show cause provision was imposed for the former head men's tennis coach for a period of four years; the institution shall vacate the records of the involved student-athletes for the 2000-01, 2001-02, 2002-03, 2003-04 and 2004-05 academic years; annual reporting required and attendance at regional compliance seminars.


Keep in mind D3 schools aren't allowed scholarships (which is exactly what they did). So what do you think an appropriate punishment should have been for a D3 school? You can't take away scholarships because they don't have any. You can't take away tv games, they don't have any. The only thing you can take away is GAMES. Not really a death penalty.


Morehouse: (November 2003)

Violation Sumary: Violations of amateurism, eligibility and financial aid regulations; failure to obtain clearinghouse certification; competition using non-certified student-athlete; failure to monitor and lack of institutional control.

Penalty Summary: Public reprimand and censure; five years of probation; the institution suspended the men's soccer program and the committee required that the suspension be imposed for a minimum of three years; the institution shall bar the former head men's soccer coach from involvement with any collegiate athletics program; requirement for the faculty athletics representative and the director of compliance to attend a NCAA Regional Compliance Seminar during each of the five years of probation and annual compliance reporting to the committee.

Morehouse suspended their OWN team so you can't say the NCAA handed them a death penalty

SMU: (February 1987)...
Violation Sumary: EXTRA BENEFITS: 21 football student-athletes received approximately $61,000 in cash payments, with the assistance of athletics department staff members, from funds provided by an athletics representative. REPEAT VIOLATOR.

Penalty Summary: Prohibition of football scrimmages and competition in 1987 and limited competition in 1988; football practices limited to conditioning programs in 1987; limitation on number of coaches until 8/1/89; no initial grants for 1987-88; maximum of 15 initial grants for 1988-89; no countable financial aid until the beginning of 1988-89; no official visits until 1988-89; maximum of 45 official visits for 1988-89; disassociation of 9 athletics representatives; annual audits.

Key words: REPEAT OFFENDER... 1965, 1974, 1981,1985


Look at what SMU got and look at what MacMurray got. Now tell me that these schools received the death penalty.
 

I'm still waiting to see if you can correctly count your own fingers. Hint: don't forget to count the finger you are using to point with.
 

RodentRampage said:
I'm still waiting to see if you can correctly count your own fingers. Hint: don't forget to count the finger you are using to point with.
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Thanks for proving my point. I feel like I am back in grade school with you. I mean instead of trying to counter what I say with facts you drop into the third grade mode of "I know you are but what am I".

Please explain to me the following:

1) what should the NCAA have done to MacMurrary College for giving 10 international students financial aid (FYI international students aren't eligible for financial aid except for athletic scholarships and since MacMurrary is a D3, athletic scholarships is not an option)? What other options did they have besides vacating wins and suspending seasons (two)?

2) how did the NCAA hand down the death penalty to Morehouse, if Morehouse suspended their own soccer team?

3) how do you manage to compare the SMU situation with the MacMurrary and Morehouse situations?

Once you can actually answer those questions instead of responding with nonsense, showing that you are incapable of being mature in your responses, I'll respond back, but I will not play stupid games with people who think that they are right just because they think too highly of themselves.
 

The rest of the planet seems to think that the NCAA gave out the death penalty to MacMurray and Morehouse. It doesn't matter a bit what I think would be the appropriate penalty.

The fact remains that the only programs that the NCAA has given the death penalty to have been lower tier teams.
 

RodentRampage said:
The rest of the planet seems to think that the NCAA gave out the death penalty to MacMurray and Morehouse. It doesn't matter a bit what I think would be the appropriate penalty.

The fact remains that the only programs that the NCAA has given the death penalty to have been lower tier teams.
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The rest of planet does not even believe that. Very few people if any know who, where or what division those schools are. Once again thanks for proving my point that you are clueless in any aspect of the NCAA infraction committee decisions.
 

NCgopher said:
The rest of planet does not even believe that. Very few people if any know who, where or what division those schools are.
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Do you realize what you just said? You just gave serious credence to the idea that there might not exist any people at all who knew who, where are what division those schools are.

I should have clarified. By saying the "rest of the planet", I meant that part of the planet that knew anything about the situation and had commented on it. I hadn't intended to imply that all 6+ billion people on the planet had views on the subject. Of those who have taken the time to comment on it, your position is a distinct minority.

Once again thanks for proving my point that you are clueless in any aspect of the NCAA infraction committee decisions.
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I will give your opinion all the consideration it deserves.
 


The question that gave rise to all of this was whether or not the NCAA would have the stomach to give the death penalty to a team of USC's stature. I don't think the NCAA does have the stomach for it, and I'm hardly alone in that position. If someone else does think that the NCAA would have the stomach for it, fine, but it's a mistake to think that that position is a fact.
 

NCgopher said:
The rest of planet does not even believe that. Very few people if any know who, where or what division those schools are. Once again thanks for proving my point that you are clueless in any aspect of the NCAA infraction committee decisions.
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Wikipedia lists them under the subject of NCAA Death Penalty. While that isn't the authoritative source, its also the very first Google return for "NCAA Death Penalty". Since anyone could edit them out if they disagreed, I think its very likely that most folks believe them to be recipients of the death penalty.
 

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