Will Mason start ahead of Hollins at some point this year?

Will Mason replace Hollins in starting lineup?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 11.9%

  • No

    Votes: 52 88.1%
  • Total voters
    59
Donate To GopherHole
If they were going to shake things up it would be for Mason instead of Morris, IMO. Id be all for it if Andre was a transfer or a freshman (someone new to the program) but he's a senior captain and one of the team leaders, im pretty sure he can motivate himself enough. Also as noted above Andre provided a huge energy spark getting after loose balls in the second half last game.

Also saw him Icing his upper back/neck during timeouts at the end of last game? Hopefully he was just cramping up or trying to cool down and doesn't have some other lingering issue.
 

point guard 10 said:
Do you guys remember that 3-4 game stretch last season when Austin just SUCKED? He got soooo much hate on here: and look at how he finished the season, and how he is missed by us all. Let's give an experienced senior the benefit of the doubt for this little slump before we go overboard like we did on Austin last year, and he made us eat our words.
Click to expand...

Speak for yourself. I never disliked Austin (or ever thought he "sucked") because even when his offense was down, his defense and leadership were constant. I always wished that Austin rather than Andre had one more year of eligibility. I don't dislike Andre but he is primarily an up-and-down scorer and he was never as hard of a worker or as consistent as Austin.
 

Otis said:
Wozee, Great post bro!

I didn't start this cause I'm hating on Andre, he is my favorite player on the team. I started it because we need to shake things up a little and need this next victory! Heseems off by everyones account and although he had a solid second half and scored 12 pts. He has not been up to Andre standards. Mason has been performing better IMO and bringing a hot shooting senior who is motivated to get his slot back might just pay huge dividends! He could just microwave us past Michigan. I also wonder if he might play better handling the ball more like he used to in the past. I wonder how his performance metrics as primary ballhandler compare to off-guard duty.

This was just an exercise to see how to kick these guys in the butt. I also wonder if playing the athletic bigs and letting them use their five fouls would help the interior defense. I don't see how it couldn't. If Bakary or Gaston could put some players driving the lane on their butts it would help greatly.
Click to expand...


Yeah thanks man; I think it's fun to think about these kind of things. I don't want to be offensive or embarrassing; simply describe my perspective and thinking.
 





Starting doesn't really matter anyways. A better question should be will Mason be getting more minutes a game than Hollins as the season goes along? I don't think so unless his injury gets worse.
 

Thank god we started Hollins today. Kept us afloat while the rest of the team was off in la la land.
 

woozee said:
I would have agreed with you prior to the OSU game, but watching his growth this year and how he is playing something isn't right. He is also giving off smoke signals commenting on criticism and ignoring it stating he "knows who he is for this team." Where there is smoke there tends to be fire.

Andre is slumping and is trending noticeably in comparison to previous years. Based on advance saber metrics Mason is statistically performing in a trend that matches Hollins finest year.

Andre Hollins Offensive Rating this Year: 105.5
Andre Hollins Defnesive Rating this Year: 94.6

In comparison to --

Nate Masons Offensive Rating this Year: 116.9
Nate Masons Defnesive Rating this Year: 87.4
Click to expand...

You’re correct on the injury part – things aren’t right with Dre and they haven’t been all year.
But some of the statistical figures and commentary are off. There are no basketball “saber metrics” and Mason is not performing in a trend that matches Hollins’ finest year.

Short on time, but one of several things that could be pointed out is usage. Mason is a sub-20% usage guy. Dre has been 24-25% guy (but is only 22% this year - a big problem - and should be at ~26% or higher IMO).

When you consider impact to the team, Mason's not at Hollins' level of the past. Strength of defenses faced and usage are two key things to consider or you will miss a lot in your analyses of ORtg's.
 



Gopher Warrior said:
You’re correct on the injury part – things aren’t right with Dre and they haven’t been all year.
But some of the statistical figures and commentary are off. There are no basketball “saber metrics” and Mason is not performing in a trend that matches Hollins’ finest year.

Short on time, but one of several things that could be pointed out is usage. Mason is a sub-20% usage guy. Dre has been 24-25% guy (but is only 22% this year - a big problem - and should be at ~26% or higher IMO).

When you consider impact to the team, Mason's not at Hollins' level of the past. Strength of defenses faced and usage are two key things to consider or you will miss a lot in your analyses of ORtg's.
Click to expand...

As I said the stats don't tell the whole story....

As for no saber metrics a ORtg is a trend analysis statistic combined to show performance of players while negating the amount of time players play.

ORtg = 100 * (PTS / Poss).

So how many points does a player score over 100 possessions. I'm sure you can guess the Drtg.

Now you can't account for roles / usage nor did I ever say mason can replace dre. I simply said that mason has been more effective based on the 100 possession comparison in conference play so far then Dre.

I do understand that mason got shut down as soon as OSU adjusted their defensive marks to defend him more aggressively and trap him in the second half.

I also said that dre should get back to form as his rtg is well below his average...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

woozee said:
As I said the stats don't tell the whole story....

As for no saber metrics a ORtg is a trend analysis statistic combined to show performance of players while negating the amount of time players play.

ORtg = 100 * (PTS / Poss).

So how many points does a player score over 100 possessions. I'm sure you can guess the Drtg.

Now you can't account for roles / usage nor did I ever say mason can replace dre. I simply said that mason has been more effective based on the 100 possession comparison in conference play so far then Dre.
Click to expand...

Nope, that's not what ORtg is and you CAN account for usage.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Nope, that's not what ORtg is and you CAN account for usage.
Click to expand...

Yes that's the calculation for ORtg. The whole point is to normalize possessions to see who has been more effective as a talking point.

How would you calculate usage in a normalized data set like I did. I am really curious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Hollins historically has been inconsistant when he's been hurt. Turf toe may seem like nothing, but anyone that has had it knows it kills your explosiveness. He's still the Goph's best player and is one of the best scorers in Gopher history. I'd prefer to see more Mason, dre, mathieu and less King.
 



GopherNation said:
Hollins historically has been inconsistant when he's been hurt. Turf toe may seem like nothing, but anyone that has had it knows it kills your explosiveness. He's still the Goph's best player and is one of the best scorers in Gopher history. I'd prefer to see more Mason, dre, mathieu and less King.
Click to expand...

No way is he our best player. I'd take Mason, Mo, and Morris over Hollins. Probably even Mathieu. Hollins is not right and it is showing. Sucks that he is going to go out this way but it is what it is.
 

MadtownGopher said:
No way is he our best player. I'd take Mason, Mo, and Morris over Hollins. Probably even Mathieu. Hollins is not right and it is showing. Sucks that he is going to go out this way but it is what it is.
Click to expand...

I thought be played much better today. Quite well against caris Lavert.
 

woozee said:
Yes that's the calculation for ORtg. The whole point is to normalize possessions to see who has been more effective as a talking point.

How would you calculate usage in a normalized data set like I did. I am really curious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

No. Your understanding is incorrect. Lots of info to read up on out there.
 


Hopefully just a troll, but someone on GI claims that he sat by former players today who said that Pitino is losing the team and assistants and Mason is 50/50 to stay for next year. Someone said that Pitino chewed out Ben Johnson after a Dre 3 point miss. Did anyone see that?
 

jamalo said:
Hopefully just a troll, but someone on GI claims that he sat by former players today who said that Pitino is losing the team and assistants and Mason is 50/50 to stay for next year. Someone said that Pitino chewed out Ben Johnson after a Dre 3 point miss. Did anyone see that?
Click to expand...

People always get upset when you lose. But there is an issue. Either the coach is not good or the players are not good. Personally I think it is a talent issue, but some might disagree.
 

GopherNation said:
Hollins historically has been inconsistant when he's been hurt. Turf toe may seem like nothing, but anyone that has had it knows it kills your explosiveness. He's still the Goph's best player and is one of the best scorers in Gopher history. I'd prefer to see more Mason, dre, mathieu and less King.
Click to expand...

I hear what you're saying. I had athlete's foot once and it was brutal!
 

woozee said:
Naw you're confused. Here I'll give you a reference. Let me know how you add usage into the normalization of ORtg. I am really curious.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_rating


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Your earlier post said 'points scored' whereas the wiki gives the correct formula for a player, which is points PRODUCED. It just doesn't explain how you calculate it. It's pretty complicated: http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

As for usage, the typical idea is that the higher the usage, the harder it is to be efficient. That's why KenPom breaks his player rankings up by usage. That being said, there's not a wide usage gap between Mason and Hollins.
 

justthefacts said:
Your earlier post said 'points scored' whereas the wiki gives the correct formula for a player, which is points PRODUCED. It just doesn't explain how you calculate it. It's pretty complicated: http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

As for usage, the typical idea is that the higher the usage, the harder it is to be efficient. That's why KenPom breaks his player rankings up by usage. That being said, there's not a wide usage gap between Mason and Hollins.
Click to expand...

You are right; it includes the different facets of offense production. Sorry I did not phrase it correctly..

But I do want to be clear that I agree with you that it doesn't tell the whole story.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

justthefacts said:
Your earlier post said 'points scored' whereas the wiki gives the correct formula for a player, which is points PRODUCED. It just doesn't explain how you calculate it. It's pretty complicated: http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

As for usage, the typical idea is that the higher the usage, the harder it is to be efficient. That's why KenPom breaks his player rankings up by usage. That being said, there's not a wide usage gap between Mason and Hollins.
Click to expand...

A+... except for the bold part. I'll get to that in a sec.

woozee, I'd strongly recommend you stay away from wiki and try reading Oliver's book. Team Offensive Efficiency is points scored per X possessions (generally stated as per 100). An individual's Offensive Rating does not tell you how a team does when he's on the court. And it certainly does not measure points scored. It's not an easy read, but would be worth your time and put you ahead of the curve of most.

Back to Dre and Mason. I would say the gap between Dre and Mason this year is decent-sized.. perhaps not wide, but it's meaningfully large. As my earlier post(s) said, in comparing Mason to Dre's "finest year" you would be sitting with a wide gap -- again, Dre has historically been between 24-25%. This year he's down and he's a different player. So, Mason's usage vs. the "finest Dre"... wide gap in usage.
 

jamalo said:
Hopefully just a troll, but someone on GI claims that he sat by former players today who said that Pitino is losing the team and assistants and Mason is 50/50 to stay for next year. Someone said that Pitino chewed out Ben Johnson after a Dre 3 point miss. Did anyone see that?
Click to expand...

Shoot. Hope it isn't true.
 

jamalo said:
Hopefully just a troll, but someone on GI claims that he sat by former players today who said that Pitino is losing the team and assistants and Mason is 50/50 to stay for next year. Someone said that Pitino chewed out Ben Johnson after a Dre 3 point miss. Did anyone see that?
Click to expand...

The chewing out of Johnson is true, that was caught on TV. (Don't know if it was after a Dre miss.)

Mason (Pitino's best recruit to date) leaving would be a huge red flag. I hope it's not true.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom