Why Lou Holtz is the worst coach in Gopher history

Rosemountian

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The Case:

1) He was the one who pushed for a permanent move towards the metrodome
2) He committed rule violations that later contributed to program probation
3) He left after just 2 years, and it was his players that pushed for the hiring of someone not named Bobby Ross. Had Holtz and his players not had his "aura" they likely wouldn't have been listened to.
4) He abandoned the team (He is the only coach post WWII to quit on the team as opposed to being let go....I know Warmath retired, but honestly)
5) He compiled a losing record both overall 10-12 and in conference play 7-10.



Refute this case
 

The Case:

1) He was the one who pushed for a permanent move towards the metrodome
2) He committed rule violations that later contributed to program probation
3) He left after just 2 years, and it was his players that pushed for the hiring of someone not named Bobby Ross. Had Holtz and his players not had his "aura" they likely wouldn't have been listened to.
4) He abandoned the team (He is the only coach post WWII to quit on the team as opposed to being let go....I know Warmath retired, but honestly)
5) He compiled a losing record both overall 10-12 and in conference play 7-10.



Refute this case

Brewster.
 

Had Lou stayed, they may have been pretty good. tony Rice was comming hear as well as other players that ended up at Notre Dame.

As for point #2, Lou also got ND and S Carolina on probation and he quit as coach of the NY Jets before he finished his only season with them in 1976. Lou may not be the worst coach, but he was dirty
 

1. lou never went 0-8 in bt play
2. lou never went winless against rivals
3. lou never went winless in trophy games
4. lou never lost to two dakota schools at home
5. lou never lost 55-0 to a rival at home
6. lou never switched an entire offensive philosophy after the first year

case refuted. it was easier than i thought.
 

No way not even close

Hoax built enthusiasm for the program Brewster did the exact opposite he snuffed it out in year two of the stadium. Holtz at least had people fired up and buying tickets and Gopher football was at least an attraction under him. The Metrodome hopped like no other time except maybe Michigan 20003 under Mason.
Wacker is close but the worst coach has to be Brewster. Never really should have gotten an interview let alone the job. Basement Brew wins this contest.
 


Had Lou stayed, they may have been pretty good. tony Rice was comming hear as well as other players that ended up at Notre Dame.

As for point #2, Lou also got ND and S Carolina on probation and he quit as coach of the NY Jets before he finished his only season with them in 1976. Lou may not be the worst coach, but he was dirty

Had Lou stayed 3 or 4 more years, I have no doubt we would have gotten to Pasadena. That banner would not be in our new stadium, though, as that season (and prolly 1-2 others) would have all been vacated after the NCAA dropped a bomb on us. As it was, we got our wrists slapped from his short stay here. Anyone old enough to remember Luther Darville, Lou's bagman? Story was that Luther took the fall, and we got off with a light punishment. Mainly because the NCAA didn't want notre dame, one of their sacred cows, sullied. Funny thing is that about 8 years later Lou bolted from South Bend with the NCAA on his heels again.

Lou Hoax is the Jerry Tarkanian of college football. Instead of sucking on a towel he just talks funny.
 

I hear the Brewster arguments.

But did Brewster quit on the U of M?
Did Brewster make a move that changed the program drastically and set it back 15+ years (think metrodome)?
Brewster won more games as the gopher head coach.
Brewster coached 2 more bowl games as the gopher head coach.
Brewster had the same amount of winning seasons as the gopher head coach.
Brewsters best season had more wins than Holtz's best season as gopher head coach.


I also hear the arguments "had he stayed we'd have done such and such".......earth to gopher fans, he bailed after 2 years, and he had a 10-12 record at the school. Regardless of what you think he may have done, 10-12 is what he did do.
 


Those of us who lived through the Joe Salem era respectfully disagree. The mess Salem left makes Brewster look like Mack Brown. Holtz cleaned up that mess in just two years.
 



Holtz was a coaching god

I remember in holtz's second season the gophers came very close to upsetting oaklahoma. That coaching performance confirmed for me that college football has everything to do with... Coaching. Like holtz or not, he was a coaching god.
 

I remember in holtz's second season the gophers came very close to upsetting oaklahoma. That coaching performance confirmed for me that college football has everything to do with... Coaching. Like holtz or not, he was a coaching fraud/criminal.

Fixed


No doubt in my mind that Holtz is a better coach than Brewster.

But as a gopher coach, who was worse for the program?
LOU
As a gopher coach, who had more success?
Brew

LOU almost upset Oklahoma
Brew almost upset Northwestern....and though Oklahoma was a number 1 team, Northwestern was a ranked team and a victory would have put the gophers in contention for the Big ten title (something Lou never came close to).
 

Fixed


No doubt in my mind that Holtz is a better coach than Brewster.

But as a gopher coach, who was worse for the program?
LOU
As a gopher coach, who had more success?
Brew

LOU almost upset Oklahoma
Brew almost upset Northwestern....and though Oklahoma was a number 1 team, Northwestern was a ranked team and a victory would have put the gophers in contention for the Big ten title (something Lou never came close to).

Haha, that's a stretch. I could just as easily say that the Gophers were in contention every year... until they lost game 1 in Big Ten play.
 

The Case:

1) He was the one who pushed for a permanent move towards the metrodome
2) He committed rule violations that later contributed to program probation
3) He left after just 2 years, and it was his players that pushed for the hiring of someone not named Bobby Ross. Had Holtz and his players not had his "aura" they likely wouldn't have been listened to.
4) He abandoned the team (He is the only coach post WWII to quit on the team as opposed to being let go....I know Warmath retired, but honestly)
5) He compiled a losing record both overall 10-12 and in conference play 7-10.



Refute this case

Nothing to refute. You nailed it. I love Sid but honestly Sid; now you want us to hire his son. No way!!!!
 



No.

Right now, it's almost a dead heat between Wacker and Brewster. Wacker actually has a worse record, but he holds a slight edge because he left a ton of talent for Mason to better utilize. This question needs to be revisited in 5 years. If our new coach is able to accomplish something with Brewster's players, he'll move ahead of Wacker.

Your personal dislike for Holtz aside, he was our best non-NC coach, and it isn't even close. It's not a reflection on him that the U hired a bunch of dogs after him.
 

1. lou never went 0-8 in bt play
2. lou never went winless against rivals
3. lou never went winless in trophy games
4. lou never lost to two dakota schools at home
5. lou never lost 55-0 to a rival at home
6. lou never switched an entire offensive philosophy after the first year

case refuted. it was easier than i thought.

I'm assuming you have little knowledge of Gopher history? Salem and Wacker were a lot worse than Brewster...a lot.
 

The Case:

1) He was the one who pushed for a permanent move towards the metrodome
2) He committed rule violations that later contributed to program probation
3) He left after just 2 years, and it was his players that pushed for the hiring of someone not named Bobby Ross. Had Holtz and his players not had his "aura" they likely wouldn't have been listened to.
4) He abandoned the team (He is the only coach post WWII to quit on the team as opposed to being let go....I know Warmath retired, but honestly)
5) He compiled a losing record both overall 10-12 and in conference play 7-10.



Refute this case

Can't argue with any of those points. He's went 1-4 in his last 5 games with Minnesota. It's far from a certainty that he would have turned Minnesota. He had a knack of knowing where he could and couldn't win. He quit during the season on both the New York Jets and Minnesota and after season at South Carolina. He had losing records at all three places. Ironically if you believe Sid, it is far from a certainty that he would have turned it around here. Remember how the original excuse was that he could never win here because of lack of support.

All that said he wasn't the worst coach here, just the most insidious and venal person to coach here.

Other Lou highlights usually not mentioned by The Music Man himself, Sid or ESPN:

New York Jets:Holtz's lone foray into the professional ranks consisted of one season with the New York Jets in 1976. He resigned with one game remaining in the season after going 3–10.[2]


Arkansas:Holtz was dismissed following a 6–5 campaign in 1983. At the time, Athletic Director Frank Broyles stated that Holtz had resigned because he was "tired and burned out", and was not fired.[7] Broyles testified 20 years later that he had fired Holtz because he was losing the fan base with things he said and did.[8] Holtz confirmed that he had been fired, but that Broyles never gave him a reason.

Minnesota: the NCAA placed Minnesota on two years probation for 17 rule violations, two of which were committed by Holtz during his tenure.

Notre Dame: following an investigation in 1999, the NCAA placed Notre Dame on two-years probation for extra benefits provided by a representative of the university to football players and one instance of academic fraud. The NCAA found that Holtz and members of his staff learned of the violations but failed to make appropriate inquiry or to take prompt action, finding Holtz's efforts "inadequate."

South Carolina: In 2005, the NCAA imposed three years probation and reductions in two scholarships on the program for 10 admitted violations under Holtz, five of which were found to be major. The violations involved improper tutoring and off-season workouts, as well as a lack of institutional control. No games were forfeited, and no television or postseason ban was imposed. Holtz issued a statement after the sanctions were announced stating, "There was no money involved. No athletes were paid. There were no recruiting inducements. No cars. No jobs offered. No ticket scandal."[19][20]

On November 18, 2004, Holtz announced that he would retire at the end of the season. On November 21, 2004, the South Carolina-Clemson brawl took place during Holtz's last regular season game.[21] Instead of ending his career at a post-season bowl game, which was expected, the two universities announced that each would penalize their respective football programs for their unsportsmanlike conduct by declining any bowl game invitations.[21] At his last press conference as South Carolina's coach, Holtz said it was ironic that he and former Ohio State coach Woody Hayes both would be remembered for "getting into a fight at the Clemson game". Holtz also alluded to his assistance in recruiting his successor, Steve Spurrier.[21] Despite Holtz's success in turning the program around, some sportwriters have suggested that these accomplishments were overshadowed by his overall losing record and his history of NCAA infractions during his tenure.[22] Thus, Holtz's legacy at South Carolina is a mixed one that continues to be debated by fans and journalists alike.
 

Holtz had his flaws, but he left the team better off than he found it. Gutekunst had two 5-3 Big Ten seasons, he had as many winning seasons in 6 years as Mason had in 10 years.
 

The Case:

1) He was the one who pushed for a permanent move towards the metrodome
2) He committed rule violations that later contributed to program probation
3) He left after just 2 years, and it was his players that pushed for the hiring of someone not named Bobby Ross. Had Holtz and his players not had his "aura" they likely wouldn't have been listened to.
4) He abandoned the team (He is the only coach post WWII to quit on the team as opposed to being let go....I know Warmath retired, but honestly)
5) He compiled a losing record both overall 10-12 and in conference play 7-10.



Refute this case

Had zero to do with the dome as a place to play. See Paul Geeeeel
 

He had a little to do with it. We were already in the dome when he got here, but Holtz had his players vote on whether they wanted to stay in the dome or move back to Memorial. It was still theoretically possible to move back at the time. But who asks players to "vote" on such things? This was when players were still interested in playing "where the pros played", and weren't yet sick of playing "where the pros didn't want to play". It was still novel to play in an NFL stadium, it took a while for people to realize it was embarrassing to not have your own stadium.

It's not likely that we would have moved out of the dome even if Holtz had pushed for it, but he didn't help, and his hiding behind his players vote was weaselly.
 

Those of us who lived through the Joe Salem era respectfully disagree. The mess Salem left makes Brewster look like Mack Brown. Holtz cleaned up that mess in just two years.

Amen. Lou Holtz was/is/and always will be about Lou Holtz, but the guy knows more than a little bit about football and more than a little bit about getting from Point A to Point B in a hurry. He bent the rules, which was unfortunate, and he did trash the tradition a bit, but the guy can flat-out coach. He had guys running through brick walls for him from Day One.
 

Lou's big sin was jumping to Notre Dame - but that was in his contract. It was a matter of how badly the ND coach did - had he righted the ship, Tony Rice would have come to Minnesota and led us to the Rose Bowl. Holtz had nothing to do with the Dome - all that was set years before by Giel, and Salem approved.

The football infractions were relatively minor and paled compared to the basketball ones.

Holtz was 10-12 only because Salem went 1-10 the year before and was slaughtered by huge margins in game after game. 1983 was the nadir of Gopher football. In his second year, Holtz almost beat Oklahoma (nat'l champ) and made a bowl. Those who lived through that time were tremendously excited by Holtz and his program - attendance averaged about 60,000 in the Dome and he drew some 40,000 to the spring game. We were on our way, but then Holtz left and Gutekunst was supported by a member of the administration who deliberately undercut AD Giel while he was out of town, orchestrating a Gutey movement with the players and with help from the dumb media. Anyone could see that Gutey was relatively dull and would never maintain the momentum Holtz had started. Giel wanted Bobby Ross or AF coach, Fisher DeBerry - both of whom were interested. In fact, Ross came to campus, only to be rudely received by the Gutey movement people. There was plenty of blame to spread around. Also, because we stuck with Gutey, we lost Alvarez a few years later.
 

It's not Holtz' fault that the players rallied behind Gutekunst. It's the administration's fault for letting the players pick the coach. Gutekunst was able to more or less keep thing at the level that Holtz left it, if we had as many bowls back then as there is now, Gutekunst's teams would have gone to 4 bowl games. But he wasn't able to make the team any better, and a couple bad seasons in 88 and 91 ended his run.
 

He left a rising program. We hired the wrong coach and that put a stop to it.
 

I am too young to really remember the Holtz era vividly.
But I thought it would be fun to have a non-coaching hire thread for a change.

Thanks for participating.
 

Had Lou stayed 3 or 4 more years, I have no doubt we would have gotten to Pasadena. That banner would not be in our new stadium, though, as that season (and prolly 1-2 others) would have all been vacated after the NCAA dropped a bomb on us. As it was, we got our wrists slapped from his short stay here. Anyone old enough to remember Luther Darville, Lou's bagman? Story was that Luther took the fall, and we got off with a light punishment. Mainly because the NCAA didn't want notre dame, one of their sacred cows, sullied. Funny thing is that about 8 years later Lou bolted from South Bend with the NCAA on his heels again.

Lou Hoax is the Jerry Tarkanian of college football. Instead of sucking on a towel he just talks funny.

Thufferin Thucatash I can't figure out what you're talkin about !
 

Holtz was a jerk. But worst coach? More like best coach. Even against Oklahoma, his teams beat people up, just beat 'em up physically. They didn't have the skill, maybe, but they played with passion and enthusiasm and it was contagious. I agree that the fan base was really turned on. A shame he left, a shame he was a jerk, but he left behind a program on the rise.

Still Skip Holtz? You gotta be kidding.
 




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