Why is everybody so pessimistic?

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die hard gopher

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yes, we lost 42-13, yes, maybe the coaching staff was a little bit conservative but overall i am very pleased with what we saw and the progress we made and i believe we are light years ahead of where we were last week, the game was a lot closer then the final score, we were tied well into the second quarter and were in the game well into the third quarter, there are a few points i want to make

Offensively some of you may say we only scored 13 which is nothing special but you need to look deeper then that. Liedener went 14-21 as a freshman, accumulated over 200 yards of offense, i think he will be a very good QB in the future, possibly a top 3 QB in the conference by his senior year, he is just as good of a runner as Marqueis was with his combo of size and speed and will be a much better passer then Queis ever was, he did have 2 costly turn overs but he is a freshman and will learn. our O-line was actually capable of moving and clearing out some bodies and Roderick Williams had a few nice runs, and we got over 280 yards of total offense, that is 120 yards more then last week against a superior defense, we rushed for over 130 yards, while we only rushed for 30 yards last week, that is more then 4 times more yards then last week, and i think Maxx Williams will be a first team all B1G TE down the road, he showed what he is capable of and Wolitarsky will be a very good player as well,

defensively we held Fitz Touscant, a more talented back then Weisman to only 78 yards and held Michigan to 113 yards rushing, last week Weisman ran for 147 yards on us and Iowa as a team ran for 250 on us, that is huge progress, i felt like our Front seven played well stopping the run and Damien Wilson and James Manuel played well and did a nice job of shedding blocks and getting tackles, we held Michigan to over 100 total yards less then Iowa and Michigan is a much more talented, more potent offense then iowa is.

the only true negative for me were the secondary and maybe our lack of a pass rush, we also had a lot of uncharacteristic penalties that i was disapointed about, that is something i prided this team on and our discipline but Gardener is a very talented QB, he has had his ups and downs this year but he had a bye week to get some work done, i honestly believe he will be a top 5 heisman contender next year, kickoff and punt coverage were also great, and we only had one less first down them Michigan had, 17-16, overall i took away a lot more positives then negatives away from this game and i would think that more people would be able to realize this
 

This is like the sports fan version of Stockholm Syndrome.
 

I have to agree with Die Hard Gopher. We have to improve and we have. No doubt the other schools are also showing improvement as well. That's ok as we want to play in a tough conference. It is obvious that people forget that what Kill inherited and how out of shape the players were due to no direction from the previous coaching staff. Its going to take time. Yeah, I get frustrated too, we all do. Buts that part of the process.
 

We have been whipped in out two B1G games and our coach has serious health issues. That's why.
 

It's not called being pessimistic. It is called being realistic. Big difference.
 



Grant said:
We have been whipped in out two B1G games and our coach has serious health issues. That's why.
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Yes the Iowa game was bad and I am disappointed about the news of kill but can't you see the monumental progress we made from last week to this week against a superior team?
 

Our Best Game of the Kill Era....

Was his first game, the 19-17 loss at USC. With a chance to win on a last minute drive. All Brewster recruits I might add.

That's why I'm pessimistic.
 

The Gopher FB program badly needs good news - but it just seems likely everything is negative. The head coach has serious unresolved health issues. The team is off to an 0-2 start in the B1G. The offense is inconsistent, at best. There are real issues with the DB's and the lack of a pass rush.

I would love to say I see a silver lining - I just don't. No disrespect to the OP, but when we have to fall back on the old "yes, we lost - but there were positives in the loss" routine, it just doesn't work for me anymore. I don't want to look for positives in a 29-point loss. I want to talk about the positives after a 29-point victory over a legitimate opponent.

I mean, when your argument for a positive outlook is "we're not as *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#ty as we were last year," that's not going to bring in a lot of donations and big-time recruits.
 




My point is that the season doesn't look quite as bleak as it did last week
 

LesBolstad said:
Was his first game, the 19-17 loss at USC. With a chance to win on a last minute drive. All Brewster recruits I might add.

That's why I'm pessimistic.
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You never have anything intelligent to say.. Or to add for that matter. I'm sorry, but you just don't. Brewster's recruits lost to New Mexico State the very next week and North Dakota State a few weeks later... I'm sure that's Kill's fault though. Anything good= Brewster. Anything bad= Kill. We get it... Get back to me when you have something intelligent to say. It's getting so old. Go join the Star Tribune forum with all the other anti-gopher idiots. You can bring a bunch of other gopherholer's with you, too. It's getting old.
 

LesBolstad said:
Was his first game, the 19-17 loss at USC. With a chance to win on a last minute drive. All Brewster recruits I might add.

That's why I'm pessimistic.
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LesBolstad,

1. The facts are what they are. You make a great point, even though it is a very uncomfortable one that I would much prefer to ignore.
 



6 Nov 1999 said:
LesBolstad,

1. The facts are what they are. You make a great point, even though it is a very uncomfortable one that I would much prefer to ignore.
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Why are there links to Veteran's Benefits documents in your sig?
 

The first "why is everyone upset" thread wasn't enough?
 

savagerube said:
You never have anything intelligent to say.. Or to add for that matter. I'm sorry, but you just don't. Brewster's recruits lost to New Mexico State the very next week and North Dakota State a few weeks later... I'm sure that's Kill's fault though. Anything good= Brewster. Anything bad= Kill. We get it... Get back to me when you have something intelligent to say. It's getting so old. Go join the Star Tribune forum with all the other anti-gopher idiots. You can bring a bunch of other gopherholer's with you, too. It's getting old.
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It appears intelligent folks feel otherwise. And apparently you don't read very well- I've opined many times I thought Brewster was a clown.
The point is that there nominal evidence Kill is a significent upgrade over Brew at this point. I hope that changes but have yet to see any evidence.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
I mean, when your argument for a positive outlook is "we're not as *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#ty as we were last year," that's not going to bring in a lot of donations and big-time recruits.
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Not to mention that wouldn't even be true. This team is no better than it was last year, and arguably worse.
 

I guess I will never understand this mentality. Congratulating the team for playing better than they did the previous week when the expectation should have been they play better after the performance against Iowa. Happy that the offense was able to gain over 280 yards of offense and had one less 1st down than Michigan. 2.5 years into this coaching staff's tenure and this where we are at. Yet the OP wonders why everyone is pessimistic.
 

Gopherprof said:
We lost by 29....
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that is so shallow, it's deeper then that, first of all it was a lot closer then the final score, but in a game like this and coming off of a game like, ast week all I really care about is executing, and I felt that we did a lot of that with liedener and our defense showed the ability to stop the run against a quality running back/O-line
 

Here is why it is easy to be pessimistic-

Despite playing the weakest non-conference schedule in the league, MN now ranks statistically in the Big Ten this way-
Total offense - 11th
Total Defense - 7th
Rushing Defense- 7th
Passing offense- 12th
Pass defense- 10th
Opponent's completion percentage- 12th
Pass efficiency- 10th
Pass defense- 11th
Sacks against- 8th
Opponent's 3rd down- 10th
Turnover margin- 7th

No running backs in the top 10
No QB in the top 10
No receivers in the top 10

That is a lot of categories to be in the bottom half of the conference.
 

I know I was trying to over exaggerate to fit in. I don't post often and like to throw a wrench in the gears. I will crawl back under my rock and continue to watch the venom being thrown at each other. I'm several beers deep and for some reason I like to add fuel to the fire .. Signing out...
 

go4ergold said:
It's not called being pessimistic. It is called being realistic. Big difference.
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Ski U Master said:
A distinction that few on this board can detect.
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The self-proclaimed realists on this board seem to have negative outlooks on the present and future of our sports programs far more often than positive ones, so I could see where the two might be confused.
 

die hard gopher said:
that is so shallow, it's deeper then that, first of all it was a lot closer then the final score, but in a game like this and coming off of a game like, ast week all I really care about is executing, and I felt that we did a lot of that with liedener and our defense showed the ability to stop the run against a quality running back/O-line
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I'm sorry, I was mistaken thinking that the object of the game was to actually score more points than your opponent. Maybe we should ask the Big Ten to start handing out participation ribbons so no one's feelings get hurt? You say that losing by 29 points is shallow...I say you're looking way too hard for positives. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm pessimistic because I don't feel we're any closer to being a respectable Big Ten program than when Kill and his staff took over 3 years ago. I'm pessimistic because we have taken the easy road to non-conference wins and are totally unprepared when the conference season starts. I'm pessimistic because I am being told that we're supposedly executing better offensively in a game when we only score 13 points. I'm pessimistic because our fan base is desperately grasping for anything positive to say and when they can't, they rip on the fans like me who see the product on the field for what it is.

Sorry if this comes off mean-spirited, but I'm tired of the same old crap that we get every year and as a fan base, I think we deserve better than what we're getting.
 

We're pessimistic because we see a team that does not have talent that exceeds that of any of our B1G opponents, at least not by any significant margin; however we have a coaching staff that employs an extremely conservative gameplan that would only be useful if we did.

Furthermore, the coaching staff refuses to take any risks to score, no matter the situation, no sense of urgency, no sense that victory in THIS week's game is important. They employ few changes to the original gameplan even when it's obvious the original gameplan is failing miserably.

See, it's somewhat understandable to have lesser talent than a U of Michigan, an Ohio State U, a U of Nebraska. It's not understandable to not try at the end of a first half; it's not understandable to give up and not use your final chance to win the game with 7 minutes left on the clock.

Let's put it this way - our favorite team is so predictable that I told my non-Gopher friend, who was over watching the game, that the following would happen; tied 7-7 at that point and the ball downed inside the 1:
1. The Gophers would be conservative and run the ball 3 straight times. It would be predictable enough that there was almost zero chance to get a first down. They'd do this while wasting clock, not realizing that their strategy of run, run, run, punt was almost guaranteeing a Michigan score which would leave too little time on the clock to wander their way back downfield to rebound and get a score of their own to end the half.
2. The Gophers would get the ball back and run out the clock to end the half without so much as an attempt to move the ball downfield, and regardless of the fact that they'd be kicking to begin the second half.
3. Because Michigan had retaken full momentum to end the half, the game was basically over. Michigan would score to open the second half and the game would be as good as over.

When each happened, my buddy just chuckled and said "obviously you know your team."

I know opposing football coaches are generally not geniuses, but our gameplan and lack of risk-taking is not going to fool anyone. THIS gameplan is designed for superior athletes to dominate the line of scrimmage and own an opponent as if they were the bigger badass playing a game of rugby. It's simply not the case and Kill and Co. cannot recruit well enough to make it such. Thus, pessimism abounds.
 

LesBolstad said:
It appears intelligent folks feel otherwise. And apparently you don't read very well- I've opined many times I thought Brewster was a clown.
The point is that there nominal evidence Kill is a significent upgrade over Brew at this point. I hope that changes but have yet to see any evidence.
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I don't post over here very often because I'm much more of a gopher hoops fan. I watch almost every football game and attend one or two a year, but I don't live and die with the squad. I also don't have a bone to pick with anybody in the program or on this board. At this point my assessment is that the team isn't appreciably better than it was under Brewster. Leidner looks like he has a chance to be good, but he has nobody outside of Max Williams to whom he can throw. The defense is typical of most gopher defenses: they make opposing quarterbacks look like first round draft picks. In general the team remains smaller, slower and less athletic than its B1G opponents. The major distinction is that I don't cringe when Kill opens his mouth. I wish him the best and I hope that he doesn't have to resign for health reasons, but I seriously doubt that he will be the HC a year from now, which is a shame.

I really thought that the new stadium was going to turn the program around, close to a sure thing. Maybe if the first coach in the new facility had been the right one there would have been real momentum, but it didn't happen.
 

GopherDieHardDyingHard said:
I'm sorry, I was mistaken thinking that the object of the game was to actually score more points than your opponent. Maybe we should ask the Big Ten to start handing out participation ribbons so no one's feelings get hurt? You say that losing by 29 points is shallow...I say you're looking way too hard for positives. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm pessimistic because I don't feel we're any closer to being a respectable Big Ten program than when Kill and his staff took over 3 years ago. I'm pessimistic because we have taken the easy road to non-conference wins and are totally unprepared when the conference season starts. I'm pessimistic because I am being told that we're supposedly executing better offensively in a game when we only score 13 points. I'm pessimistic because our fan base is desperately grasping for anything positive to say and when they can't, they rip on the fans like me who see the product on the field for what it is.

Sorry if this comes off mean-spirited, but I'm tired of the same old crap that we get every year and as a fan base, I think we deserve better than what we're getting.
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I won't rip on you. Everything you wrote is spot on.

There are a lot of people here who have some romantic notion of what college football is. Rah rah for the old alma mater and that sort of antiquated nonsense. The fact is, college football at the BCS level is a big time, big money entertainment venture. For those of us who invest our time or money in the program to any level, there's not much return on investment when the Gophers get pounded by the likes of Michigan year after year after year.
 

discochris said:
I won't rip on you. Everything you wrote is spot on.

There are a lot of people here who have some romantic notion of what college football is. Rah rah for the old alma mater and that sort of antiquated nonsense. The fact is, college football at the BCS level is a big time, big money entertainment venture. For those of us who invest our time or money in the program to any level, there's not much return on investment when the Gophers get pounded by the likes of Michigan year after year after year.
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The thing that gets me most is how some fans have such a defeatist attitude here...."You shouldn't get mad when we get beat by a superior opponent..." First of all, that's pretty much going to describe EVERY Big Ten team for the rest of the season...Second of all, are we that sure that Michigan is that superior? They barely beat Akron, UConn, and a Notre Dame squad that struggled against Purdue...I don't think we were watching one of those great Wolverine teams from years gone by...but we sure made them look that way.
 

die hard gopher said:
Yes the Iowa game was bad but can't you see the progress we made in one week against a superior opponent
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Michigan wasn't superior first of all-they are better for sure, but that is a team that can lay an egg any game.

The progress made still wasn't good enough to make a game out of it. We kind of hung around, but Michigan was never in real danger after they scored the late first half td. Still much improved offensively from Iowa.

I'm not feeling good about this team mainly based on the coaching from the last two weeks. We can't keep getting out-played and out-coached.
 

tikited said:
Michigan wasn't superior first of all-they are better for sure, but that is a team that can lay an egg any game.

The progress made still wasn't good enough to make a game out of it. We kind of hung around, but Michigan was never in real danger after they scored the late first half td. Still much improved offensively from Iowa.

I'm not feeling good about this team mainly based on the coaching from the last two weeks. We can't keep getting out-played and out-coached.
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Jerry and Co. seem like good guys but there just doesn't appear to be the aggressive or innovative planning on or off the field to get this team beyond their current circumstances. Right now we're being sold on beefing up our lines and attempting to outcompete Iowa, Wisconsin and Nebraka at their own game. What this program needed was a coach who saw the inherent recruiting disadvantages and would attempt a system that was unique from the ground and pound (eg Mason's zone blocking scheme). I believe Kill and Co could run their system effectively at WI, IA, or NE like they did at perennial MAC power NIU, I just don't see it here.
 

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