Why I am happy with 4-2

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Winnipegopher

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As a long time Gopherholer, I won't say I am shocked with the negativity here- I have come to expect it. On the football board, bad times are bad and good times are bad. The only positive time is during the recruiting off-season when every three star and up is pencilled in as a 4 year starter and clearly better than the incumbent.

What is funny is that in 2011 (yes 2011), if Gray has a couple of bad games the same people calling for Gray now, will call for Alipate. On every team (ok not the 2009 Vikings) no one is more popular than the back-up qb.

However, I think it needs to be mentioned that we are 4-2 and HAVE NOT PLAYED ONE CUPCAKE.

We wins over teams from the Big Ten (2), Mountain West, and Big East and no bad losses.

This is not a prefect team but it may be a pretty good team.

PS It is wonderful to have a decent defence for the first time in a long, long, time.
 

+1 to everything you said. I am really happy with 4-2, it has just been a really tough 2 losses. We could be 6-0, imagine that! But nobody or no team is perfect, so we accept the good with the bad, and keep trucking and playing our asses off.
 

I couldn't have said it better. Well said. I was major league bummed about the Wisconsin loss but going into this year I was like most people when I felt that 7-5 would be an improvement over last year given the step up in schedule. As I look at the schedule, I think the Gophers are still on course for that kind of a season. A win against Wisconsin would have raised the possibility of a very special season but the team is still on course to meet my expectations. All in all... so far so good.
 


Winnipegopher said:
What is funny is that in 2011 (yes 2011), if Gray has a couple of bad games the same people calling for Gray now, will call for Alipate.
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Possible. The difference is that we've heard so much about Gray (Army All-American, btw) and Weber hasn't been showing up. Everyone is allowed to have an off day here and there, but I think Weber has been given a bit too much credit, considering Decker makes him look like a stud.

All we are sayyyyyyyiiiinnggggg is give 'Queis a chance!
 


What I find funny about all the people who bash the negativity around here is how hopelessly lowered their expectations seem to be. They seem to be fine with mediocrity and can't even understand why others are not.
 

Gopher Nation said:
What I find funny about all the people who bash the negativity around here is how hopelessly lowered their expectations seem to be. They seem to be fine with mediocrity and can't even understand why others are not.
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If these lowered expectations you speak of are in regards to 4-2 and Weber playing instead of Gray, use your head!!!

I'm not calling you an idiot, but I'm quite literally requesting you think about the consequences of playing Gray with a swiss cheese line and no consistent running game to this point. Not to mention that Gray more than likely has NO rhythm with Decker, who is our main weapon and the prime factor for our success the past 2 years. The intangibles that Weber and Decker share are irreplaceable at this point.

It's my honest opinion that the people who demand Gray play would demand Brew burn at the stake if Gray got a career ender because of our offensive suck. There's no way to win here.
 

What's the difference between lowered expectations and being delusional?

4-2 is ok. I expected 5-1, but it's not the end of the world because those things from the east earned their win.
 

Gopher Nation said:
What I find funny about all the people who bash the negativity around here is how hopelessly lowered their expectations seem to be. They seem to be fine with mediocrity and can't even understand why others are not.
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I think the real issue is that there are a lot of people who think the appropriate alternative to being fine with mediocrity is to act like a infant having a temper tantrum. :confused:

Most negative posters also don't seem very well informed to me. They seem to thow little hissy-fits when they realize that the other teams that play college football are actually trying to win too. Then they say dumb things -- and rather than defending their indefensible viewpoint they level silly accusations like "being okay with mediocrity" if someone disagrees.

I'm not saying that charaterizes you (or anyone else) specifically. I've just seen a lot of that kind of negative garbage posted online. The point of most of what's negative out there is intended to slam-- not for actual discussion.
 



I don't think anyone on this board is satisfied with mediocrity, but we also know that you don't become a big ten title contender overnight. It is a process, we have gotten better each year, which is what we need if we want to challenge for the top spot. I too would be fine with 7-5 because of the harder schedule (no Woffords or Eastern Illinois States) but too be fair, being the hopeless optimist that I am I predicted 9-3 with wins over Cal and Wisconsin. Obviously that didn't happen, but I think we are far from settling into mediocrity.

P.S. 9-3 can still happen!
 

Gopher Nation said:
What I find funny about all the people who bash the negativity around here is how hopelessly lowered their expectations seem to be. They seem to be fine with mediocrity and can't even understand why others are not.
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Consider instead that folks may have different timelines for when they expect bigger and better. I'd also note that its hard to call a season mediocre halfway through with the team @ 4-2 unless you're picking a fight. You can certainly critique play during the 4-2 but the jury is still out as to how the whole season looks.
 

If the Gophers defend the home field for the rest of the season, the team can't finish any lower than 7-5 (4-4). Please let's not overlook the fact that exactly 8 Gopher teams in the past 24 years have finished 4-4 or better in the Big 10 since the schedule returned to 8 games in 1985 - '05, '03, '00, '99, '90, '89, '86, '85. It's a sad stat for the program, but true nevertheless.

I'm not saying 4-4 is acceptable year-in, year-out, I'm just saying it's not as bad as it looks on the surface considering the history here. Take 4-4 this year, bring a young team (generally speaking) next year and replicate if not improve. If the Gophers could get to the place where 4-4 becomes the benchmark (nothing worse than that) and every two or three years, the team pops up and goes 6-2 or 7-1 in the Big 10, I would be pretty sass'ified.
 

Winnipegopher said:
However, I think it needs to be mentioned that we are 4-2 and HAVE NOT PLAYED ONE CUPCAKE.

We wins over teams from the Big Ten (2), Mountain West, and Big East and no bad losses.

This is not a prefect team but it may be a pretty good team.

PS It is wonderful to have a decent defence for the first time in a long, long, time.
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Schedule is decent so far at 46 according to Sagarin. However, not sure your definition of cup cake. The Gophers have played the 93rd and 107th Sagarin rated teams. As a point of reference, South Dakota State is rated higher then both at 83.

The conference does not determine the cupcake, the team does.
 



Winnipegopher said:
As a long time Gopherholer, I won't say I am shocked with the negativity here- I have come to expect it. On the football board, bad times are bad and good times are bad. The only positive time is during the recruiting off-season when every three star and up is pencilled in as a 4 year starter and clearly better than the incumbent.

What is funny is that in 2011 (yes 2011), if Gray has a couple of bad games the same people calling for Gray now, will call for Alipate. On every team (ok not the 2009 Vikings) no one is more popular than the back-up qb.

However, I think it needs to be mentioned that we are 4-2 and HAVE NOT PLAYED ONE CUPCAKE.

We wins over teams from the Big Ten (2), Mountain West, and Big East and no bad losses.

This is not a prefect team but it may be a pretty good team.

PS It is wonderful to have a decent defence for the first time in a long, long, time.
Click to expand...


Well said, Winnipeg!
 

Gopher Nation said:
What I find funny about all the people who bash the negativity around here is how hopelessly lowered their expectations seem to be. They seem to be fine with mediocrity and can't even understand why others are not.
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Not at all. Complaints and questions after a loss is expected, maybe even welcomed. It's the pissing and moaning within an hour of a win that makes many people question the whiners.

- There are a number of trolls on this board. That's a given on a free board.
- There are a small number of fans of the old coach who just want Maturi fired and Brewster to fail. They think of themselves as true Gopher fans. The desire for Revenge is hard to control.
- There are a handful of posters who just think Brewster will never be a good game coach. They can't really take satisfaction in a Gopher win because it obscures all the things that Brewster and his staff are doing wrong!!! They then feel compelled to acknowledge the win and go right into "but did you see what they're doing wrong?"
- There are honest critics who just want to review the game. Those that find more to complain about then praise after a win should expect some questions.
- The are dicks who just like to be Devil's Advocates. It's only when they don't want to be Devil's Advocates after a loss when their motives should be questioned.

I'm on Winnipeg's side on this one. EXPECTING a 12-0 or 10-2 season? Only if I'd see 6 losing $50 plus tickets and a $100 Big Ten Championship ticket would make me think that was an honest appraisal.
 

frozengopher said:
If these lowered expectations you speak of are in regards to 4-2 and Weber playing instead of Gray, use your head!!!

I'm not calling you an idiot, but I'm quite literally requesting you think about the consequences of playing Gray with a swiss cheese line and no consistent running game to this point. Not to mention that Gray more than likely has NO rhythm with Decker, who is our main weapon and the prime factor for our success the past 2 years. The intangibles that Weber and Decker share are irreplaceable at this point.

It's my honest opinion that the people who demand Gray play would demand Brew burn at the stake if Gray got a career ender because of our offensive suck. There's no way to win here.
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What does Gray have to do with this conversation?
 

GoAUpher said:
Consider instead that folks may have different timelines for when they expect bigger and better. I'd also note that its hard to call a season mediocre halfway through with the team @ 4-2 unless you're picking a fight. You can certainly critique play during the 4-2 but the jury is still out as to how the whole season looks.
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I'm not picking a fight, but I think anyone based in reality can see they don't have any realistic shot of beating PSU, OSU or Iowa. So 7-5 best case now that they lost to Wisconsin. Possibly 6-6. Both of those are mediocre by my definition.
 

parkinglotgopher said:
If the Gophers defend the home field for the rest of the season, the team can't finish any lower than 7-5 (4-4). Please let's not overlook the fact that exactly 8 Gopher teams in the past 24 years have finished 4-4 or better in the Big 10 since the schedule returned to 8 games in 1985 - '05, '03, '00, '99, '90, '89, '86, '85. It's a sad stat for the program, but true nevertheless.

I'm not saying 4-4 is acceptable year-in, year-out, I'm just saying it's not as bad as it looks on the surface considering the history here. Take 4-4 this year, bring a young team (generally speaking) next year and replicate if not improve. If the Gophers could get to the place where 4-4 becomes the benchmark (nothing worse than that) and every two or three years, the team pops up and goes 6-2 or 7-1 in the Big 10, I would be pretty sass'ified.
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You think next year's team will be better after losing all those starters from this year's team?
 

I'm happy with 4-2 because we're 2 or 3 plays away from being 2-4 and 2 or 3 plays away from being 6-0 or 5-1.......
 

With all due respect...

looking at the current Sagarin Ratings and comparative wins, I do think the GGs have a realistic shot at upsetting PSU.
 

Well, all I can give you is my opinion and my perspective. But I'm not a lifelong ardent follower of the Gopher football program. I watched them growing up, paid attention somewhat, and was a casual fan. Then I moved out of state for several years.

After coming back, didn't really pay much attention to them. Wasn't a critic, but wasn't a follower either. But a good friend of mine works for the program, and so I started following a little more in Mason's final years. By the end of Mason's tenure, it was clear to me that he could take the program no farther than mediocrity - the middle of the pack at best in the Big Ten. That was just the best the Gophers could hope for with the Dome and all the bad recent history in the program.

Well, I really started to follow the team more in Mason's last year and said that if Maturi showed enough gumption to fire Mason, I would buy season tickets on the spot. So during the bowl game against Texas Tech, when things started to unravel, I was actually cheering for Texas Tech. I knew that if they blew that game, Mason would be fired and it would be the best thing for the program over the long term.

So they lost and Mason got canned, and I ordered my season tickets. Was 100 percent excited by the hire of Brewster in spite of his lack of head coaching experience. He was a great recruiter and the thing I liked best was his raising of the standards within the program. That should be the goal, and I was sold by the guy.

Year 1, 1-11. Did not care at all. That's fine. Give him time to get in his recruits. Looked shaky in-game on the sidelines, but oh well, nothing to be alarmed with.

Year 2, they bounce back and post a winning record and go to a bowl game. Didn't mind the season-ending slide or the bowl loss. Still early, still learning, felt that the overall record was on par with the talent. Was just excited to headed back to campus the following year and start reaping the recruiting benefits and real home-field advantage.

Prior to Year 3, was very disappointed to see them lose Ted Roof and was even more disappointed to see him hire Cosgrove, who I think will prove to be a colossal mistake. Excited for the new stadium, a new era.

Looking at this year's schedule and who the Gophers had back, I predicted an 8-4 season, with the only losses coming against Cal, Penn State, Ohio State and Iowa. 8-4 would be a very good season and would get them a decent bowl game. I don't think that prediction is crazy in any way. I predicted four losses. Wisconsin hasn't been this bad in a while, and the schedule was pretty friendly this year.

I don't care that Syracuse and Air Force are supposedly better than Northern Illinois and Florida Atlantic. They were still games that the Gophers should win. They did, but they struggled. That's fine, that happens, and I hoped was a good sign that they could play poorly and still win.

Then when they played Cal tough for a while and let things get away, I hoped that was another good sign, to be competitive with a top 10 team. Well, Cal has been awful ever since, so suddenly that doesn't look so acceptable anymore.

But then the loss to Wisconsin is just very hard to take. Biggest rival. New stadium. Minnesota is up (from where they've been) and Wisconsin is down (from where they've been). But it was the "same ol' Gophers out there. Just dominated at the line of scrimmage on both sides. It was embarrassing.

So then they bounce back and beat a bad Purdue team even though they didn't play that well. And that's fine, but nothing to be excited about or to think that anything has changed in the larger picture.

So, sure, they could still go 7-5 and go to a bowl. If they do that, I wouldn't call it a failure of a season, obviously. But I also would not be overly excited about it. Because it's just another mediocre season by any rational definition.

What I want and what I think every Gopher fan wants and has a right to expect, is that the Gophers achieve the level of their two closest rivals: Iowa and Wisconsin. We've got the same weather issues as them as far as recruiting goes. We've now got a shiny new on-campus stadium. No more excuses.

Do I expect this to happen overnight? No, but what I will say is that I personally just don't feel like I'm seeing enough signs that this program is headed anywhere it hasn't already been in recent years. I'm just not seeing it. No upset wins over a more talented team. No wins over close rivals. And on the flipside, there have been plenty of either embarrassingly lopsided losses to quality opponents or closer losses to teams that the Gophers were more talented than.

So we're halfway through Year 3. If you're excited and happy and optimistic, I guess I'm not understanding why. I don't think it's a disaster at this point by any means. It's just what I've said all along: Mediocre. And I'm tired of mediocre. Brewster raised expectations here by his own comments. I think he should be held accountable to those expectations. We'll see how it plays out. But if the Gophers go 5-7 this year, for example, I think Brewster will and should be fired given all the variables. I hope that doesn't happen. I hope the Gophers beat the teams they should beat and find a way to pull off an upset of someone they probably shouldn't. I just haven't seen anything yet that would lead me to believe there's any realistic chance of that happening.
 

On Saturday, you would have thought we lost, with the way this board was. The beating will continue until morale improves, I guess.
 

Gopher Nation said:
You think next year's team will be better after losing all those starters from this year's team?
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In a word, Yes.
Although it seems silly to look to next year already(I'm still excited about this season's possibilities)
We lose a bunch of starters on D, Decker, Tow Arnett, Stommes.
our depth has been challenged the last 3 years, to the point where young guys who wouldn't sniff PT before their Jr year have started, played on the road, been in tough games, etc.

Personnel wise we have
DE Edwards/Kirksey anchoring, Jacobs has proven just OK so far, but he will improve, Wilhite/KGM/Garin/Hageman will have to step up at the other end spot. More speed, athleticism on DLine, and actually some solid experience.
LB
Cooper looks like a future star, Tinsley has been playing some this year, I expect Rallis/Reeves/Singleton to have the other spot, again alot of speed athleticism, gaining experience as the season progresses, Cosgrove has developed good LB's in the past, I've been impressed with the development of our LB's so far in the Brewster regime also
CB
looks young, assuming Game 1 starters in Collado/Carter, we are going to play alot of freshmen here, maybe RS guys like Lewis or Dandridge (Jr) can help
S
Will look old and wise compared to the rest of the D, Theret has wiley veteran written all over him, Royston seems to be getting better, neither is spectacular, but some young depth here has been playing(Dandridge, Rallis, Watkins)

Decker- Stoudemire, Carpenter, and Green will be solid, I think we see a big play by Bryant Allen by the end of this year, Keise and Mcknight have size, might contribute, recruit Hill seems like he's been recruited to contribute right away. NOT DECKER!, but solid depth.

TA- We're gonna need to see more of what Lair brings to the table, Rengel might suprise early, McGarry can fill in on blocking like he has this year.

Stommes- Orton or Wynn might finally play when they should (RSJr) Who knows, maybe a freshman impresses(Michel, Gjere, SH?, I hope not unless its SH) Either way, our OL will again be a problem even if Stommes was back for another season.

Then look at the schedule
We could easily go to 6-7 wins without breaking a sweat(assuming NW, Purdue and a Ill or MSU win)
USC will bring in national pub, will challenge our team early, bring in recruits.
A win @ Wisky isn't out of the question, that's 7, Iowa/PSU/OSU @ home gives us a better fighting chance. Very possible to have 8-9 wins with several against top teams.
 

I'm not happy, but I'm not unhappy either.

The schedule basically breaks down into three categories

Games we should win
Syracuse- Check
Air Force- Check
Northwestern- Check
Purdue- Check
South Dakota- I'm going to go ahead and check this
Illinois- nobody would have said this earlier, but it's clear Illinois has simply quit.

Toss-up
Wisconsin- Fail
Michigan State-

Could win, but not realistic to expect at this point
Cal- Fail
Penn State-
Ohio State-
Iowa-


My position on this season really hasn't changed. We HAVE to have a winning record, which basically means we either beat Michigan State, or we find a way to upset one of the other three, and we really HAVE to win a bowl game that isn't against a MAC team. We aren't winning rivalry games and we haven't won a bowl game in years, those are two really big strikes for this program getting any prestige and momentum. Beat Michigan State and/or Penn St/Iowa, and most importantly, make a bowl game against a BCS opponent (lets say Insight Bowl vs. Texas Tech) and actually win this time.

Anything short of that has to be considered a dissapointment.
 

I'm with Winny on this one

If you had told me on Sept. 11th that on Oct. 13th that 1. the offensive of line would have shown little if any improvement over last year and 2. Many people were calling for Weber's benching, I would have assumed we were 1-5 or 2-4 at this point. The thing that really has me going this year is, how good would this team be if they played well on both sides of the ball for a whole game. While that is easy to say and almost as ambigeous as Sagrin's rankings, it does seem to be the case. We have had the briefest of flashes of the offense this year, and the "D" has been improved overall, but still had periods of shaky play. As for 2011, it seems that we have players behind players this year, and not just warm bodies. I could be wrong on that since there hasn't benn a ton of guys at all positions getting plays, but we have seen Cooper, Carter, Carpenter, Gray, Whaley, among others see more time on the field as the season progesses which points to the idea that the cupboard isn't bare, and the staff see the need to season players for the future.
I remain optimistic, and would put my rating of the season so far at 6.5 out of 10
 

I agree with Winnipeg for the most part. 4-2 is not bad at this point.

I'm happy we're not 3-3 or worse. However, I'm a little disappointed with 4-2, which we all probably are just as everyone would be tremendously ecstatic with 5-1. It's the loss in the swing game, how it was lost and who we lost it to that creates the disappointment.

I'm expecting to win out at home because MSU, IL, and SDSU are not great and a veteran team at home should handle them. If we do that, I'll be happy. If we can do that and snipe someone on the road, then I'll be pleasantly surprised!
 

I'm not saying the Gophs will win this weekend but PSU isn't as good as advertised. if the Gophs decide to show up and play, the game should be there for the taking.
 


SMU GOPHS FAN said:
I'm not saying the Gophs will win this weekend but PSU isn't as good as advertised. if the Gophs decide to show up and play, the game should be there for the taking.
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How could you possibly even know that? Penn State has played one serious game and clobbered everyone else.

I'm getting a little uneasy at the degree to which everyone is talking down Penn State. Yes, they are untested, that doesn't mean they still couldn't come out and clobber us too. This is largely the same team that won the B10 last year, and they are usually awesome at home.
 

Troy McClure said:
I'm expecting to win out at home because MSU, IL, and SDSU are not great and a veteran team at home should handle them. If we do that, I'll be happy. If we can do that and snipe someone on the road, then I'll be pleasantly surprised!
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If we win out at home, that means we will have likely climbed over two teams (MSU and Northwestern) in the Big Ten pecking order since last year. (And I might add Illinois to that, too; we beat the Illini last and finished ahead of them last year, but I think some might see that as somewhat of a fluke.) All three of those teams have been pretty much around our area of the standings for years, but you have to start at the first step. That's not bad progress in one season.

If we pull off an upset on the road, too, we finish 5-3/8-4 with at least one pretty nice win and a strong finish. I'd call that a very successful season.
 

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