Why does everyone think we're not a spread team anymore?

[biggieb45]

I've seen multiple posts saying that we're going to be a run offense now.

Brewster has said publicly that we are a spread team. He brought in Davis so we can run the ball, period. Will we be incorporating power running? Yes. Will we be taking snaps from under center? Yes. Will we still run the spread? YES! Just because Brew wants to be able to smack people in the face with the run game doesn't mean we're giving up on the spread. I don't get where people say we're going back to our old offense. I remember Brew saying that he wants to be physical and aggressive on the o-line, but that is a far cry from being a run first team. People are jumping to conclusions.

 

[Schnoodler]

Because we only believe what we want to believe. Plus it's convenient fodder for Masonites and those who feel more comfortable with failure.

 

[CWCWCW]

We'll have to wait and see.......

Brewster said before the Fisch hire that "the Golden Gophers are a spread team. That's who we are."
Then, Fisch was hired and he stated that we weren't a spread team, just a "Gopher offense."
Me? I'm happy. Having Adam Weber in the shotgun on our own 2 yard line was hard to watch. I don't mind incorporating some of the spread, but it wasn't working. Our offense was supposed to be exciting. To me, it was boring. The ball rarely went downfield, the quartback took a beating, and we never chewed up much clock. 2 years of Dunbar's offense was enough for me.

 

[husker70]

The change I think will be in the offensive line blocking. We have been a zone scheme which at best is a influence block, or series of picks to open lanes. When it came to third and the game, we couldn't convert with either the former Coach or Coach Brewster. What was especially frustrating with the former was being able to run at will throughout the game amassing 400 plus yards, but being unable to gain the two yards that would have iced it.

That being said, a man scheme uses power to punch holes. It features double teams, cross blocks, and traps. It is designed to put the defensive front four on their heels or on their a$$es. This type of attack may not break the 65 yard burst, but 4 yards early becomes 7 late in the game. And third and two is no problem. It takes 5 maybe 6 players with physicality, timing, and teamwork to get it done. It will be impairetive to settle on this O line group in the Spring.

And again, we have no reporting on the weight training and conditioning going on right now. This is where those third downs are converted. The offensive line power comes from the legs, and how many of these lineman can squat 600? That's where smash mouth originates. We were a stronger faster team last year, we need to be stronger and faster this year again.

 

[caliGopher]

Were we a spread team?

I think the reason Mr. Dunbar is no longer with the team is that we WANTED to be a spread team but failed to be effective in that.

I've seen multiple posts saying that we're going to be a run offense now.

Bringing in Davis sends the signal that while there have been many promises of being a running team, we have not had success in that arena for a variety of reasons, we are still trying to be effective running.

I agree that we aren't looking to switch back to the run early, often and only offense that was our identity in the past, but he is trying to find a way to effectively run the ball.

Brewster has said publicly that we are a spread team.

From what I've seen of Brewster and been told doesn't matter by so many of the people on the board, Brewster says a lot of things. What do we trust, and what is just bluster?

And really, what kind of team are we? After two years, we are a team in transition. The only identity I've been able to glean from two years of Brewster is that we are incredibly undisciplined at whatever we hope to do long term both offensively and defensively.

Hopefully Fisch and Cosgrove will help us develop an identity beyond that we change coordinators every season or two.

 

[tpbeight]

The Gophers were a zone team under Gordy Shaw and it seemed to work pretty well. Jed Fisch comes from the Broncos, which was also a zone team under legendary Alex Gibbs. I think it's safe to say that we're going to be zone blocking next year.

 

[Goldy74s]

Amazingly, after two full years, nobody, fans, players, media, has any idea what sort of O we will be running next year. Your guess is as good as anyone's.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Amazingly, not everything went exactly to plan when a brand new offense was put into place. I can't believe that happened.

I really doubt Brewster or anyone else on the team cares if the fans or media know exactly what is going on behind the scenes. I'm guessing the players have a good idea what's going on.

 

[GoAUpher]

Amazingly, after two full years, nobody, fans, players, media, has any idea what sort of O we will be running next year. Your guess is as good as anyone's.

I think a bigger problem was that everyone in the stadium knew what plays we would run because of Dunbar's unwillingness to adapt. WR screen, The Play, Decker slant.

 

[The 12th Man]

The Gophers were a zone team under Gordy Shaw and it seemed to work pretty well. Jed Fisch comes from the Broncos, which was also a zone team under legendary Alex Gibbs. I think it's safe to say that we're going to be zone blocking next year.

When will people realize that Shaw ran absolutely nothing on that offense? He was a OG/C coach and a DL coach. That is it. He was a position coach who was so amazing at coaching his position that he actually got moved to another position. He ran nothing. He is at a 1-AA school now. He was average. If you want to praise anyone from the Mason era, praise Mitch Browning. The schemes we used then were his, not Shaw's.

As for being a "zone team," you might need to learn more about the intricacies of blocking schemes. The running game out of a spread formation is all based on zone blocking schemes. We had no linemen this year. It was not the scheme, it was the lack of blocking. As long as it is zone blocking, the blocking assignments will stay the same regardless of whether Weber is under center. If we have similarly awful blocking next year, you will see the same results. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t.

The only difference that comes when a team is running a zone read out of the shotgun is that the backside DE goes unblocked. This is who the QB reads before deciding to hand the ball off or keep it, so in essence the backside DE is accounted for with the QB's legs. In Browning's schemes, there was no read option, so it was either a FB or TE (in an Ace formation) who accounted for the backside DE so there would be a cutback lane on an inside zone play. Outside zone was a little different. There was no cutback in the play, so the DE could be accounted for by faking a bootleg. Or, on an outside zone play, the backside DE simply went unblocked because he was not going to make the tackle on an outside run away from him.

It is absolutely amazing to me how uninformed people are about the X's and O's while they bash what some coaches are doing and praise others.

 

[grunkiejr]

Thank you 12th man. I love to see someone that actually knows what he is talking about. I get so frustrated from time to time with the exact same thing.

 

[grunkiejr]

The Gophers were a zone team under Gordy Shaw and it seemed to work pretty well. Jed Fisch comes from the Broncos, which was also a zone team under legendary Alex Gibbs. I think it's safe to say that we're going to be zone blocking next year.

What makes you so certain that we are going to run schemes from the Denver playbook? Jedd Fisch coached one year in Denver, 4 years in Baltimore, and 3 years in Houston. How do you know that he isn't going to mimic what he learned in Baltimore?

We brought in Tim Davis to coach the O-line & serve as Running Game Coordinator. Do you think he is going to have any input in to the blocking schemes? His title certainly implies that he will.

 

[KD6-3.7]

no one has ever been able to give me a good definition of "spread offense" and i think the term has lost its meaning.

it is tautological to say "spread offense" is to spread the field. PSU runs a "HD spread offense" but they are under center quite a bit. i think we are going to see people starting to redefine what a "spread offense" is.

 

[MNfootballfan]

I agree with 12th man. The majority of runs in the spread are zone blocking schemes. Every QB read play is entirely zone blocking. All the option = zone blocking.

 

[grunkiejr]

no one has ever been able to give me a good definition of "spread offense" and i think the term has lost its meaning.

it is tautological to say "spread offense" is to spread the field. PSU runs a "HD spread offense" but they are under center quite a bit. i think we are going to see people starting to redefine what a "spread offense" is.

Agreed. More than anything it is a philosophy to spread a defense by using 3-5 WR sets with a single back (or no back) and the QB in the shotgun. However, nearly every offense these days is a hybrid of different philosophies packaged in to a playbook. You mentioned PSU and I'll add Oklahoma as another team that goes under center frequently and will use power running formations.

To me the only play defined as a "spread play" is the spread read option. Out of the shotgun w/ a RB to the right of the QB. The QB takes the snap, sticks it in the gut of the RB that is running an outside zone left and the QB reads the unblocked Right DE to determine whether he is attacking down at the run and the QB should pull the ball and run through the vacated hole.

 

[The 12th Man]

no one has ever been able to give me a good definition of "spread offense" and i think the term has lost its meaning.

it is tautological to say "spread offense" is to spread the field. PSU runs a "HD spread offense" but they are under center quite a bit. i think we are going to see people starting to redefine what a "spread offense" is.

I agree with this statement. Every team, NFL included, runs some version of the spread. In the end, I think Brewster is seeing "spreading the field" as his main offensive goal. You need playmakers ont he outside to do this, obviously, which is why he has brought in so many WRs.

There are some basic differences between different versions of the spread. I think people typically think of Florida's read-option when they think of the spread. That is one version, and it relies heavily on the run. Purdue and Texas Tech are slightly different. The one common theme between all of these teams, however, is that they want to get LBs out of the box.

I see Brewster as a guy who would love to have an offense like Florida's. They run the ball VERY well. The read option is the bread and butter, but they have power schemes as well where they pull linemen, TEs, and even WRs through as lead blockers. People on this board liked Browning's schemes because there were lead blockers and pads popping. Florida does that. They have a 2-back set in that the QB essentially acts as another RB. They have lead blockers and can pound people even though they are out of the shotgun.

This is why it frustrates me when people talk about "Suzy Spread" or say that we need to go under center because the shotgun makes us soft. That is ridiculous and displays football ignorance. Any scheme can be successful, but it needs to be run the right way and the right people need to be in place.

I would be shocked to see us go to double-TEs or a ton of formations with a FB because we have spent three offseasons now bringing in playmakers on the outside. We need to use them, and a spread-out offense will do just that.

 

[tpbeight]

Wow, a lot of great football minds here.

12th Man, thank you for breaking down the basics of zone blocking. You sure are smart.

Look at the offense that Billick ran here, and the offense Shanahan ran. They are very similar. Fisch spent 5 years with those 2 guys. Odds are that he's going to lean heavy on their schemes when deciding what to run here. Both systems used the TE a lot, both had a FB. I expect to see a lot of that next season. That's my HUNCH, anyway. I think that we will look much differant next year, moving away from the shotgun and the spread.

I'm sure 12th Man will now launch into a detailed description of how wrong i am and i can't wait to read it and educate myself on the X's & O's.

12th Man, where do you coach?

 

[biggieb45]

I agree with this statement. Every team, NFL included, runs some version of the spread. In the end, I think Brewster is seeing "spreading the field" as his main offensive goal. You need playmakers ont he outside to do this, obviously, which is why he has brought in so many WRs.

There are some basic differences between different versions of the spread. I think people typically think of Florida's read-option when they think of the spread. That is one version, and it relies heavily on the run. Purdue and Texas Tech are slightly different. The one common theme between all of these teams, however, is that they want to get LBs out of the box.

I see Brewster as a guy who would love to have an offense like Florida's. They run the ball VERY well. The read option is the bread and butter, but they have power schemes as well where they pull linemen, TEs, and even WRs through as lead blockers. People on this board liked Browning's schemes because there were lead blockers and pads popping. Florida does that. They have a 2-back set in that the QB essentially acts as another RB. They have lead blockers and can pound people even though they are out of the shotgun.

This is why it frustrates me when people talk about "Suzy Spread" or say that we need to go under center because the shotgun makes us soft. That is ridiculous and displays football ignorance. Any scheme can be successful, but it needs to be run the right way and the right people need to be in place.

I would be shocked to see us go to double-TEs or a ton of formations with a FB because we have spent three offseasons now bringing in playmakers on the outside. We need to use them, and a spread-out offense will do just that.

12th Man, thank you! That is the best description I've heard yet. I would almost guarantee that is Brews thinking as well.

 

[DCGopher]

Based on the playcalling we saw in the bowl game with Davis around, we should be seeing a much higher portion of our plays being runs next season. In the bowl game we really did not start passing a lot until we were down by a few touchdowns and needed to play catch up. As far how that plays out with some type of "spread" will be interesting to see.

Both systems used the TE a lot, both had a FB. I expect to see a lot of that next season. That's my HUNCH, anyway. I think that we will look much differant next year, moving away from the shotgun and the spread.

Speaking of Fullbacks, since our offense the last two years did not really use one, any ideas one who would fill that role?

Maybe Rengel?

 

[50PoundHead]

Very good 12th man. Extremely well-described. Almost everyone runs elements of a spread. It takes on different looks in different systems from Tiller's "basketball on grass" to slightly more button-downed approaches. OSU would never be classified as a spread team, but Pryor runs that quick QB read-option out of the gun ala Pat White/Tim Tebow quite a bit.

I'm way old and have always pretty much subscribed to the Lombardi approach of "it's all blocking and tackling." The key to any of these offensive sets (outside of the obvious need for proper execution) is to get more helmets in a zone than the other team. Spreading people out can help with that.

I think what Fisch is trying to say is that they are going to run a lot of different looks. To me, and I could be dead wrong, Dunbar seemed to believe that everything he was doing was right and that any shortcomings were the result of faulty execution or lack of talent. John Wooden was one of the greatest coaches in the history of sport because he would always change his approach based to the talent on hand. Dunbar impressed me as a guy who would rather go 0-11 and remain a purist to his theories (but that view is from the cheap seats).

 

[jovs]

Not real up on X's/O's but I am not sure what the blocking scheme has to do with whether or not you are running a spread offense. Doesn't it depend more on what type of personel you place on the field which will then dictate format and type of play you run.

Doesn't a spread use up to five receivers with a long snap to the quarterback with the intention of spreading out the defense and provide you with more options.

If you are running a power offense fewer receivers will be on the field and the formations will reflect that.

I think that the offense will just have more variety and interchanging of personel next year.