Who is teaching our big men to bounce the damn ball everytime they catch it?

GopherinPhilly

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Watching the Gophers this year and the number of turn overs coming off of Big Mo, EE, King and Martin when he is in there when they catch the ball in the low post or under the basket and their first move is to dribble.

It must have happened 3 or 4 times last night alone. Why is a 6'8 plus guy who catches the ball under the basked doing anything but going up strong. At most a pump fake, then go up strong.
 

You sound like my 8th grade b-ball coach.

And you are not wrong.
 

Watching the Gophers this year and the number of turn overs coming off of Big Mo, EE, King and Martin when he is in there when they catch the ball in the low post or under the basket and their first move is to dribble.

It must have happened 3 or 4 times last night alone. Why is a 6'8 plus guy who catches the ball under the basked doing anything but going up strong. At most a pump fake, then go up strong.

We were talking about this same thing last night. Keep the ball high and go up strong. If you didn't get the ball deep enough- toss it back out and re-position. That and the failure to block out...
 

Bring McHale back in to work with them a little.
 

Another thing that has been evident is that our "scoring center", once he gets the ball, always attempts to score and rarely passes the ball back out of the post.... doesn't he have the reputation of being an excellent passer?
 


Another thing that has been evident is that our "scoring center", once he gets the ball, always attempts to score and rarely passes the ball back out of the post.... doesn't he have the reputation of being an excellent passer?

I've noticed that as well. Nothing frustrates the hell out of me more than when Mo tries to take a guy (and sometimes even an additional help defender) down in the post and he has Mason and/or Hollins ready in a catch and shoot position wide open on the perimeter.
 

You sound like my 8th grade b-ball coach.

And you are not wrong.

Then I'm fairly certain that this coaching staff tells them the same thing. Bet they're even more frustrated than we are. Richard looked really exasperated last night once when Mo did the dribble and then went weakly at the rim. Looked like he was really giving it to Mo as he went by. And Martin just headed for the bench with his head down wanting nothing more than to avoid Richard after a really bad turn-over down low in the first half.
 

Must be the same person that coaches our DBs to not turn their heads

/sarcasm
 

Agreed. Not surprised when they're young. Must be able to get away with it in HS. Tarver & Nzigamasabo would drive me crazy doing it as upper class-men back in the day.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 



Watching the Gophers this year and the number of turn overs coming off of Big Mo, EE, King and Martin when he is in there when they catch the ball in the low post or under the basket and their first move is to dribble.

It must have happened 3 or 4 times last night alone. Why is a 6'8 plus guy who catches the ball under the basked doing anything but going up strong. At most a pump fake, then go up strong.

Dr. Don. No poster should question anything; anything beyond excreting rainbows and skittles is unacceptable
 

Well I'm happy I'm not the only one frustrated about this!
 

Watching the Gophers this year and the number of turn overs coming off of Big Mo, EE, King and Martin when he is in there when they catch the ball in the low post or under the basket and their first move is to dribble.

It must have happened 3 or 4 times last night alone. Why is a 6'8 plus guy who catches the ball under the basked doing anything but going up strong. At most a pump fake, then go up strong.


You bring up a great point. And there is more to the story. I see players doing things these days that would've quickly put them on the bench by my high school coach. More often than not our players do not understand how to roll properly after a pick. And that makes a huge difference in whether the pick and roll is effective. They roll the opposite direction and fail to get the picked player on their back. Additionally, our players more often than not fail to take away the baseline on drives and rarely stick their backside on a man when the ball is released by a shooter. I wasn't the most skilled player, but it took no skill to roll the proper way, take away baseline and box out when the shot goes up. Either 1. coaches are no longer teaching these fundamentals, 2. these fundamentals have not been pounded into the heads of coaches like they were to us 30 years ago, 3. players today don't care what their coaches tell them or 4. players don't understand how big a difference these fundamentals can make to the success of their team. It has to be one or more of the above.

On a related note, it seems to me the frequency with which centers come out to the arc to set picks for guards is over done. I understand that it helps open up the middle for guards to penetrate, and perhaps the game has changed enough to make it worthwhile, but it's probably a reason why our big men are getting less and less rebounds. On the other hand, we haven't had a center who can play like a center in years. So maybe getting them out of the action is a good idea:cry:
 

Not sure I understand

I guess i do not see to many post players in college just turn and shoot. Arent they being defended by someone who is the same height and wouldnt they just get rejected?

Unless its Shaq catching the ball within 3 feet of the rim most post players dribble. Now should they watch the guards who are dropping down to either protect the dribble or throw it out for a 3.. yes.


Watching the Gophers this year and the number of turn overs coming off of Big Mo, EE, King and Martin when he is in there when they catch the ball in the low post or under the basket and their first move is to dribble.

It must have happened 3 or 4 times last night alone. Why is a 6'8 plus guy who catches the ball under the basked doing anything but going up strong. At most a pump fake, then go up strong.
 



You bring up a great point. And there is more to the story. I see players doing things these days that would've quickly put them on the bench by my high school coach. More often than not our players do not understand how to roll properly after a pick. And that makes a huge difference in whether the pick and roll is effective. They roll the opposite direction and fail to get the picked player on their back. Additionally, our players more often than not fail to take away the baseline on drives and rarely stick their backside on a man when the ball is released by a shooter. I wasn't the most skilled player, but it took no skill to roll the proper way, take away baseline and box out when the shot goes up. Either 1. coaches are no longer teaching these fundamentals, 2. these fundamentals have not been pounded into the heads of coaches like they were to us 30 years ago, 3. players today don't care what their coaches tell them or 4. players don't understand how big a difference these fundamentals can make to the success of their team. It has to be one or more of the above.

On a related note, it seems to me the frequency with which centers come out to the arc to set picks for guards is over done. I understand that it helps open up the middle for guards to penetrate, and perhaps the game has changed enough to make it worthwhile, but it's probably a reason why our big men are getting less and less rebounds. On the other hand, we haven't had a center who can play like a center in years. So maybe getting them out of the action is a good idea:cry:

To be fair. Pick & Rolls have become more complicated as players are asked to read what the defense is doing to defend them. Not every pick is going to require the player to pivot as you were taught in high school. Second, many coaches teach their players to give the baseline because the angle does not allow the ball handler to make a shot. Thus, let the dribbler have that angle and cut off the passing lanes instead. Where I am in agreement with you is in regard to finding an opponent and boxing them out for the rebound. Our kids are getting caught watching the paint dry when the shot goes up.
 

To be fair. Pick & Rolls have become more complicated as players are asked to read what the defense is doing to defend them. Not every pick is going to require the player to pivot as you were taught in high school. Second, many coaches teach their players to give the baseline because the angle does not allow the ball handler to make a shot. Thus, let the dribbler have that angle and cut off the passing lanes instead. Where I am in agreement with you is in regard to finding an opponent and boxing them out for the rebound. Our kids are getting caught watching the paint dry when the shot goes up.

hey tinyarch, thank you for pointing out those nuances. that's very interesting and something I wasn't aware of. learn something new every day, right? got invited to the game tonight and looking forward to seeing the guys in action. bball is always more fun in person, especially with good seats. have a great night.
 

If I remember this correctly; the big men put the ball on the ground to settle into post to gain ground against the defender when tubby coached. It also bought time for perimeter players to get open for the big player to dish back out. Tubby's half court offense had the ball going in and out multiple times in one possession.

That is if the team was running the offense right without the defense adjusting to this passing trend.
 

I guess i do not see to many post players in college just turn and shoot. Arent they being defended by someone who is the same height and wouldnt they just get rejected?

Unless its Shaq catching the ball within 3 feet of the rim most post players dribble. Now should they watch the guards who are dropping down to either protect the dribble or throw it out for a 3.. yes.

Im not talking about catching it with their back to the basket. I am talking about when they catch it under the basket, pull a rebound down under the basket...basically, watch our bigs. They bounce the damn ball almost every time when they are inside of 3 feet. A head fake and go up strong.

They actually draw more defenders to them while dribbling and open themselves up for guards to grab at the ball. You get a rebound under the basket...keep it high and go up strong.
 


If I remember this correctly; the big men put the ball on the ground to settle into post to gain ground against the defender when tubby coached. It also bought time for perimeter players to get open for the big player to dish back out. Tubby's half court offense had the ball going in and out multiple times in one possession.

That is if the team was running the offense right without the defense adjusting to this passing trend.

Tubby's offense had 4 guys standing watching the 5th guy dribble. That's the reason Tubby is now living in death valley at Texas Tech...
 

Im not talking about catching it with their back to the basket. I am talking about when they catch it under the basket, pull a rebound down under the basket...basically, watch our bigs. They bounce the damn ball almost every time when they are inside of 3 feet. A head fake and go up strong.

They actually draw more defenders to them while dribbling and open themselves up for guards to grab at the ball. You get a rebound under the basket...keep it high and go up strong.

You are not wrong in your observation, philly. One of the problems, however, is that our bigs don't establish themselves solidly on the blocks. They get pushed out and then feel the need to dribble in order to get closer to the rim. One of the downsides of Mo losing so much weight is that he now gets pushed out underneath.
 

I see

Someone like Mo, who doesnt have a very good vertical needs to get his body into the defender and hook it to not get blocked.

Someone with EE height and vertical should never bounce the ball if he is catching it within 5 ft of the rim.


You are not wrong in your observation, philly. One of the problems, however, is that our bigs don't establish themselves solidly on the blocks. They get pushed out and then feel the need to dribble in order to get closer to the rim. One of the downsides of Mo losing so much weight is that he now gets pushed out underneath.
 

Am I mistaken; I didn't see them bounce the ball off rebounds last night.
 




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