What was the Big Ten like in 2007 when Tubby took over?

[coolhandgopher]

My memory told me that when the Gophers hired Tubby Smith back in '07, not only was I ecstatic to gain a coach with such stature, but I also recall a vacuum that existed in Big Ten basketball at the time-that several similar programs to the Gophers were also going through a similar down stretch and were in transition themselves (outside of Michigan St, Ohio St, and Wisconsin). Checking my memory against the numbers, here's where the respective programs in the Big Ten were at in 1997 and where they are now:

Illinois:
* Bruce Webber was coming off of his fourth consecutive NCAA appearance with the Illini, but the decline was on-two seasons after finishing as NCAA runner-up, the Illini lost double digit games in the regular season and were bounced in first round of tourney.
* In 2007-08, the Illini finish under .500. The following four seasons produce a NCAA berth (round of 64), NIT, NCAA (round of 64) and NIT (last season).
* Webber is fired following the 2011-12 season and replaced by John Groce, who appears to have the Illini on track to reach the NCAA's in his first season.

Indiana:
* Kelvin Sampson was still at the helm of the Hoosiers program stepping into 2007-08 and had his finest team led by DJ White and Eric Gordon. Things fell apart during the season when Sampson was removed from the head coaching job due to ongoing violations and replaced by Dan Dakich, who the Gophers memorably defeated in the BT tournament with Blake Hoffarber's buzzer beater, followed by a first round exit in the NCAA tournament.
* Tom Crean replaces Sampson and the next three seasons are disastrous (8-46 in BT conference).
* Last season, the Hoosiers right the ship, returning to national prominence and a Sweet Sixteen berth.
* This season, the Hoosiers began as pre-season #1 and will be a likely #1 or 2 seed when the NCAA tourney begins.

Iowa:
* Steve Alford resigned at the end of 2006-07 season to take the New Mexico job, following a rocky tenure in Iowa City.
* Alford is replaced by Todd Lickliter, who has three seasons which progressively get worse, winning 6, 5, and 4 games in Big Ten competition Lickliter is fired at the end of the 2009-10 season.
* Fran McCaffery replaces Lickliter and in year three, seems to have the Hawkeyes knocking on the door of the NCAA tournament with a young roster.

Michigan:
* Hired John Beilein in the same off-season, after firing Tommy Amaker.
* Last NCAA tournament appearance: 1998
* In season two (2008-09), Michigan makes NCAA tournament and advances to round to 32.
* Since that season, Michigan followed with a losing year followed by two consecutive seasons of NCAA appearances (round of 32, Sweet Sixteen) and will again go to tournament this season, as a high seed.

Michigan State:
* Tom Izzo had just completed his twelfth season as Spartans head coach.
* Since 2007-08, the Spartans have continued to go to five NCAA tournaments and certainly will follow with a sixth consecutive this season, marking sixteen consecutive seasons of NCAA tournament berths.

Northwestern:
* Bill Carmody had just finished season #7 at Northwestern, a losing campaign (13-18, 2-14 BT).
* In the five seasons since, the Wildcats have went to four NIT's and are vying to return this season, short of a miracle in the BT tourney.

Ohio State:
* Thad Matta and the Buckeyes were coming off their national championship runner-up year with Oden, Conley, etc.
* The following season sent the Buckeyes to the NIT, but since then they have been in the NCAA tournament four consecutive years and will certainly be there again this year.

Penn State:
* The Nittany Lions had just finished season #4 under Ed DeChellis, a 11-19, 2-14 BT campaign.
* DeChellis continued to coach the Nittany Lions for four seasons, marked by a NCAA berth in 2010-11, followed by a resignation to take the Navy job.
* Pat Chambers took over from DeChellis and finished last in the Big Ten last season and appears headed there again this year.

Purdue:
* The Boilermakers were coming off their first NCAA berth in Matt Painter's second season.
* They followed with five consecutive NCAA berths, but will not make the NCAA tourney this season shy of winning the BT tournament.

Wisconsin:
* Bo Ryan had just finished season six in Madison, of six consecutive NCAA berths.
* Wisconsin has continued to appear in NCAA tournaments for the following five seasons with upper-division finishes each year, and will certainly be returning to the NCAA tournament this year.

So, my memory wasn't that off, although I forgot that Purdue was on the cusp of their really good run (but also heartbreaking run with Hummel's injuries) with Painter and I think I thought more highly of Illinois' immediate future than what occurred. I also recall thinking and probably typing that now was the time for Bo Ryan's glory to end its run; he had made hay back at the beginning of his era when Mike Davis, Dan Monson, Tommy Amaker, Steve Alford and Gene Keady (at the end of his career) were on the opposing sidelines, but now Wisconsin's rightful place in the second division of the Big Ten would be assured.

It's quite depressing for me to consider the lost opportunity that existed for the Gophers when this time presented itself; while Michigan State, Ohio State, and Illinois had all recently been to Final Fours or national championship games and Wisconsin had established itself as a consistent upper division presence in Big Ten basketball, there certainly seemed like there was room to move upward and that was before the Sampson scandal landed in Bloomington or the Bruce Webber era ended underwhelmingly in Champaign. The time was ripe for programs to leap into the first division of the Big Ten-Purdue did so, at least for a few years; Michigan appears to have done so solidly; Indiana is back to being Indiana and therefore solidly in the upper division. And while I will concede that these programs may be on more solid footing financially/facilities-wise, the golden opportunity was there for Tubby to take the Gophers to a higher level.

Provide as many excuses as you wish (facilities, Royce White, Devoe, RSIII not developing, Al Nolen's broken foot), you cannot move me off this point-Tubby Smith has drastically underachieved at Minnesota. Whether that's because of complacency, stubbornness, or the game passing him by is immaterial, but it's occurred. This, as others have pointed out, was his year-a solid, veteran starting lineup returning that had experienced a small taste of post-season success in the NIT, aided by a healthy Trevor Mbawke. An upper-division finish, top-20 ranking, and playing to the Sweet Sixteen provided some hope that the abundant recruiting classes that are coming in-state (looking beyond Jones and Vaughn) would catch Gophers fever and see how The Barn could rock for each game. This wasn't a year where the words "bubble" or "RPI" should or could have been part of the conversation. While the Sweet Sixteen and nabbing the top in-state recruits is still a possibility, I think the chances are becoming dimmer by the day.

Excuse me for feeling glum, but when I consider that the Iowa Hawkeyes, who have already changed coaches once since Tubby began at the "U", appear to be in much better shape stepping into 2013-14, I think it's appropriate for Gopher fans to questions whether it's time to go another direction.

 

[Coolew01]

My memory told me that when the Gophers hired Tubby Smith back in '07, not only was I ecstatic to gain a coach with such stature, but I also recall a vacuum that existed in Big Ten basketball at the time-that several similar programs to the Gophers were also going through a similar down stretch and were in transition themselves (outside of Michigan St, Ohio St, and Wisconsin). Checking my memory against the numbers, here's where the respective programs in the Big Ten were at in 1997 and where they are now:

Illinois:
* Bruce Webber was coming off of his fourth consecutive NCAA appearance with the Illini, but the decline was on-two seasons after finishing as NCAA runner-up, the Illini lost double digit games in the regular season and were bounced in first round of tourney.
* In 2007-08, the Illini finish under .500. The following four seasons produce a NCAA berth (round of 64), NIT, NCAA (round of 64) and NIT (last season).
* Webber is fired following the 2011-12 season and replaced by John Groce, who appears to have the Illini on track to reach the NCAA's in his first season.

Indiana:
* Kelvin Sampson was still at the helm of the Hoosiers program stepping into 2007-08 and had his finest team led by DJ White and Eric Gordon. Things fell apart during the season when Sampson was removed from the head coaching job due to ongoing violations and replaced by Dan Dakich, who the Gophers memorably defeated in the BT tournament with Blake Hoffarber's buzzer beater, followed by a first round exit in the NCAA tournament.
* Tom Crean replaces Sampson and the next three seasons are disastrous (8-46 in BT conference).
* Last season, the Hoosiers right the ship, returning to national prominence and a Sweet Sixteen berth.
* This season, the Hoosiers began as pre-season #1 and will be a likely #1 or 2 seed when the NCAA tourney begins.

Iowa:
* Steve Alford resigned at the end of 2006-07 season to take the New Mexico job, following a rocky tenure in Iowa City.
* Alford is replaced by Todd Lickliter, who has three seasons which progressively get worse, winning 6, 5, and 4 games in Big Ten competition Lickliter is fired at the end of the 2009-10 season.
* Fran McCaffery replaces Lickliter and in year three, seems to have the Hawkeyes knocking on the door of the NCAA tournament with a young roster.

Michigan:
* Hired John Beilein in the same off-season, after firing Tommy Amaker.
* Last NCAA tournament appearance: 1998
* In season two (2008-09), Michigan makes NCAA tournament and advances to round to 32.
* Since that season, Michigan followed with a losing year followed by two consecutive seasons of NCAA appearances (round of 32, Sweet Sixteen) and will again go to tournament this season, as a high seed.

Michigan State:
* Tom Izzo had just completed his twelfth season as Spartans head coach.
* Since 2007-08, the Spartans have continued to go to five NCAA tournaments and certainly will follow with a sixth consecutive this season, marking sixteen consecutive seasons of NCAA tournament berths.

Northwestern:
* Bill Carmody had just finished season #7 at Northwestern, a losing campaign (13-18, 2-14 BT).
* In the five seasons since, the Wildcats have went to four NIT's and are vying to return this season, short of a miracle in the BT tourney.

Ohio State:
* Thad Matta and the Buckeyes were coming off their national championship runner-up year with Oden, Conley, etc.
* The following season sent the Buckeyes to the NIT, but since then they have been in the NCAA tournament four consecutive years and will certainly be there again this year.

Penn State:
* The Nittany Lions had just finished season #4 under Ed DeChellis, a 11-19, 2-14 BT campaign.
* DeChellis continued to coach the Nittany Lions for four seasons, marked by a NCAA berth in 2010-11, followed by a resignation to take the Navy job.
* Pat Chambers took over from DeChellis and finished last in the Big Ten last season and appears headed there again this year.

Purdue:
* The Boilermakers were coming off their first NCAA berth in Matt Painter's second season.
* They followed with five consecutive NCAA berths, but will not make the NCAA tourney this season shy of winning the BT tournament.

Wisconsin:
* Bo Ryan had just finished season six in Madison, of six consecutive NCAA berths.
* Wisconsin has continued to appear in NCAA tournaments for the following five seasons with upper-division finishes each year, and will certainly be returning to the NCAA tournament this year.

So, my memory wasn't that off, although I forgot that Purdue was on the cusp of their really good run (but also heartbreaking run with Hummel's injuries) with Painter and I think I thought more highly of Illinois' immediate future than what occurred. I also recall thinking and probably typing that now was the time for Bo Ryan's glory to end its run; he had made hay back at the beginning of his era when Mike Davis, Dan Monson, Tommy Amaker, Steve Alford and Gene Keady (at the end of his career) were on the opposing sidelines, but now Wisconsin's rightful place in the second division of the Big Ten would be assured.

It's quite depressing for me to consider the lost opportunity that existed for the Gophers when this time presented itself; while Michigan State, Ohio State, and Illinois had all recently been to Final Fours or national championship games and Wisconsin had established itself as a consistent upper division presence in Big Ten basketball, there certainly seemed like there was room to move upward and that was before the Sampson scandal landed in Bloomington or the Bruce Webber era ended underwhelmingly in Champaign. The time was ripe for programs to leap into the first division of the Big Ten-Purdue did so, at least for a few years; Michigan appears to have done so solidly; Indiana is back to being Indiana and therefore solidly in the upper division. And while I will concede that these programs may be on more solid footing financially/facilities-wise, the golden opportunity was there for Tubby to take the Gophers to a higher level.

Provide as many excuses as you wish (facilities, Royce White, Devoe, RSIII not developing, Al Nolen's broken foot), you cannot move me off this point-Tubby Smith has drastically underachieved at Minnesota. Whether that's because of complacency, stubbornness, or the game passing him by is immaterial, but it's occurred. This, as others have pointed out, was his year-a solid, veteran starting lineup returning that had experienced a small taste of post-season success in the NIT, aided by a healthy Trevor Mbawke. An upper-division finish, top-20 ranking, and playing to the Sweet Sixteen provided some hope that the abundant recruiting classes that are coming in-state (looking beyond Jones and Vaughn) would catch Gophers fever and see how The Barn could rock for each game. This wasn't a year where the words "bubble" or "RPI" should or could have been part of the conversation. While the Sweet Sixteen and nabbing the top in-state recruits is still a possibility, I think the chances are becoming dimmer by the day.

Excuse me for feeling glum, but when I consider that the Iowa Hawkeyes, who have already changed coaches once since Tubby began at the "U", appear to be in much better shape stepping into 2013-14, I think it's appropriate for Gopher fans to questions whether it's time to go another direction.

Well put

 

[howieramone]

Let me say this once again. THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT TIME.

 

[EG#9]

My memory told me that when the Gophers hired Tubby Smith back in '07, not only was I ecstatic to gain a coach with such stature, but I also recall a vacuum that existed in Big Ten basketball at the time-that several similar programs to the Gophers were also going through a similar down stretch and were in transition themselves (outside of Michigan St, Ohio St, and Wisconsin). Checking my memory against the numbers, here's where the respective programs in the Big Ten were at in 1997 and where they are now:

Illinois:
* Bruce Webber was coming off of his fourth consecutive NCAA appearance with the Illini, but the decline was on-two seasons after finishing as NCAA runner-up, the Illini lost double digit games in the regular season and were bounced in first round of tourney.
* In 2007-08, the Illini finish under .500. The following four seasons produce a NCAA berth (round of 64), NIT, NCAA (round of 64) and NIT (last season).
* Webber is fired following the 2011-12 season and replaced by John Groce, who appears to have the Illini on track to reach the NCAA's in his first season.

Indiana:
* Kelvin Sampson was still at the helm of the Hoosiers program stepping into 2007-08 and had his finest team led by DJ White and Eric Gordon. Things fell apart during the season when Sampson was removed from the head coaching job due to ongoing violations and replaced by Dan Dakich, who the Gophers memorably defeated in the BT tournament with Blake Hoffarber's buzzer beater, followed by a first round exit in the NCAA tournament.
* Tom Crean replaces Sampson and the next three seasons are disastrous (8-46 in BT conference).
* Last season, the Hoosiers right the ship, returning to national prominence and a Sweet Sixteen berth.
* This season, the Hoosiers began as pre-season #1 and will be a likely #1 or 2 seed when the NCAA tourney begins.

Iowa:
* Steve Alford resigned at the end of 2006-07 season to take the New Mexico job, following a rocky tenure in Iowa City.
* Alford is replaced by Todd Lickliter, who has three seasons which progressively get worse, winning 6, 5, and 4 games in Big Ten competition Lickliter is fired at the end of the 2009-10 season.
* Fran McCaffery replaces Lickliter and in year three, seems to have the Hawkeyes knocking on the door of the NCAA tournament with a young roster.

Michigan:
* Hired John Beilein in the same off-season, after firing Tommy Amaker.
* Last NCAA tournament appearance: 1998
* In season two (2008-09), Michigan makes NCAA tournament and advances to round to 32.
* Since that season, Michigan followed with a losing year followed by two consecutive seasons of NCAA appearances (round of 32, Sweet Sixteen) and will again go to tournament this season, as a high seed.

Michigan State:
* Tom Izzo had just completed his twelfth season as Spartans head coach.
* Since 2007-08, the Spartans have continued to go to five NCAA tournaments and certainly will follow with a sixth consecutive this season, marking sixteen consecutive seasons of NCAA tournament berths.

Northwestern:
* Bill Carmody had just finished season #7 at Northwestern, a losing campaign (13-18, 2-14 BT).
* In the five seasons since, the Wildcats have went to four NIT's and are vying to return this season, short of a miracle in the BT tourney.

Ohio State:
* Thad Matta and the Buckeyes were coming off their national championship runner-up year with Oden, Conley, etc.
* The following season sent the Buckeyes to the NIT, but since then they have been in the NCAA tournament four consecutive years and will certainly be there again this year.

Penn State:
* The Nittany Lions had just finished season #4 under Ed DeChellis, a 11-19, 2-14 BT campaign.
* DeChellis continued to coach the Nittany Lions for four seasons, marked by a NCAA berth in 2010-11, followed by a resignation to take the Navy job.
* Pat Chambers took over from DeChellis and finished last in the Big Ten last season and appears headed there again this year.

Purdue:
* The Boilermakers were coming off their first NCAA berth in Matt Painter's second season.
* They followed with five consecutive NCAA berths, but will not make the NCAA tourney this season shy of winning the BT tournament.

Wisconsin:
* Bo Ryan had just finished season six in Madison, of six consecutive NCAA berths.
* Wisconsin has continued to appear in NCAA tournaments for the following five seasons with upper-division finishes each year, and will certainly be returning to the NCAA tournament this year.

So, my memory wasn't that off, although I forgot that Purdue was on the cusp of their really good run (but also heartbreaking run with Hummel's injuries) with Painter and I think I thought more highly of Illinois' immediate future than what occurred. I also recall thinking and probably typing that now was the time for Bo Ryan's glory to end its run; he had made hay back at the beginning of his era when Mike Davis, Dan Monson, Tommy Amaker, Steve Alford and Gene Keady (at the end of his career) were on the opposing sidelines, but now Wisconsin's rightful place in the second division of the Big Ten would be assured.

It's quite depressing for me to consider the lost opportunity that existed for the Gophers when this time presented itself; while Michigan State, Ohio State, and Illinois had all recently been to Final Fours or national championship games and Wisconsin had established itself as a consistent upper division presence in Big Ten basketball, there certainly seemed like there was room to move upward and that was before the Sampson scandal landed in Bloomington or the Bruce Webber era ended underwhelmingly in Champaign. The time was ripe for programs to leap into the first division of the Big Ten-Purdue did so, at least for a few years; Michigan appears to have done so solidly; Indiana is back to being Indiana and therefore solidly in the upper division. And while I will concede that these programs may be on more solid footing financially/facilities-wise, the golden opportunity was there for Tubby to take the Gophers to a higher level.

Provide as many excuses as you wish (facilities, Royce White, Devoe, RSIII not developing, Al Nolen's broken foot), you cannot move me off this point-Tubby Smith has drastically underachieved at Minnesota. Whether that's because of complacency, stubbornness, or the game passing him by is immaterial, but it's occurred. This, as others have pointed out, was his year-a solid, veteran starting lineup returning that had experienced a small taste of post-season success in the NIT, aided by a healthy Trevor Mbawke. An upper-division finish, top-20 ranking, and playing to the Sweet Sixteen provided some hope that the abundant recruiting classes that are coming in-state (looking beyond Jones and Vaughn) would catch Gophers fever and see how The Barn could rock for each game. This wasn't a year where the words "bubble" or "RPI" should or could have been part of the conversation. While the Sweet Sixteen and nabbing the top in-state recruits is still a possibility, I think the chances are becoming dimmer by the day.

Excuse me for feeling glum, but when I consider that the Iowa Hawkeyes, who have already changed coaches once since Tubby began at the "U", appear to be in much better shape stepping into 2013-14, I think it's appropriate for Gopher fans to questions whether it's time to go another direction.

Excellent post.

 

[Rouser]

My memory told me that when the Gophers hired Tubby Smith back in '07, not only was I ecstatic to gain a coach with such stature, but I also recall a vacuum that existed in Big Ten basketball at the time-that several similar programs to the Gophers were also going through a similar down stretch and were in transition themselves (outside of Michigan St, Ohio St, and Wisconsin). Checking my memory against the numbers, here's where the respective programs in the Big Ten were at in 1997 and where they are now:

Illinois:
* Bruce Webber was coming off of his fourth consecutive NCAA appearance with the Illini, but the decline was on-two seasons after finishing as NCAA runner-up, the Illini lost double digit games in the regular season and were bounced in first round of tourney.
* In 2007-08, the Illini finish under .500. The following four seasons produce a NCAA berth (round of 64), NIT, NCAA (round of 64) and NIT (last season).
* Webber is fired following the 2011-12 season and replaced by John Groce, who appears to have the Illini on track to reach the NCAA's in his first season.

Indiana:
* Kelvin Sampson was still at the helm of the Hoosiers program stepping into 2007-08 and had his finest team led by DJ White and Eric Gordon. Things fell apart during the season when Sampson was removed from the head coaching job due to ongoing violations and replaced by Dan Dakich, who the Gophers memorably defeated in the BT tournament with Blake Hoffarber's buzzer beater, followed by a first round exit in the NCAA tournament.
* Tom Crean replaces Sampson and the next three seasons are disastrous (8-46 in BT conference).
* Last season, the Hoosiers right the ship, returning to national prominence and a Sweet Sixteen berth.
* This season, the Hoosiers began as pre-season #1 and will be a likely #1 or 2 seed when the NCAA tourney begins.

Iowa:
* Steve Alford resigned at the end of 2006-07 season to take the New Mexico job, following a rocky tenure in Iowa City.
* Alford is replaced by Todd Lickliter, who has three seasons which progressively get worse, winning 6, 5, and 4 games in Big Ten competition Lickliter is fired at the end of the 2009-10 season.
* Fran McCaffery replaces Lickliter and in year three, seems to have the Hawkeyes knocking on the door of the NCAA tournament with a young roster.

Michigan:
* Hired John Beilein in the same off-season, after firing Tommy Amaker.
* Last NCAA tournament appearance: 1998
* In season two (2008-09), Michigan makes NCAA tournament and advances to round to 32.
* Since that season, Michigan followed with a losing year followed by two consecutive seasons of NCAA appearances (round of 32, Sweet Sixteen) and will again go to tournament this season, as a high seed.

Michigan State:
* Tom Izzo had just completed his twelfth season as Spartans head coach.
* Since 2007-08, the Spartans have continued to go to five NCAA tournaments and certainly will follow with a sixth consecutive this season, marking sixteen consecutive seasons of NCAA tournament berths.

Northwestern:
* Bill Carmody had just finished season #7 at Northwestern, a losing campaign (13-18, 2-14 BT).
* In the five seasons since, the Wildcats have went to four NIT's and are vying to return this season, short of a miracle in the BT tourney.

Ohio State:
* Thad Matta and the Buckeyes were coming off their national championship runner-up year with Oden, Conley, etc.
* The following season sent the Buckeyes to the NIT, but since then they have been in the NCAA tournament four consecutive years and will certainly be there again this year.

Penn State:
* The Nittany Lions had just finished season #4 under Ed DeChellis, a 11-19, 2-14 BT campaign.
* DeChellis continued to coach the Nittany Lions for four seasons, marked by a NCAA berth in 2010-11, followed by a resignation to take the Navy job.
* Pat Chambers took over from DeChellis and finished last in the Big Ten last season and appears headed there again this year.

Purdue:
* The Boilermakers were coming off their first NCAA berth in Matt Painter's second season.
* They followed with five consecutive NCAA berths, but will not make the NCAA tourney this season shy of winning the BT tournament.

Wisconsin:
* Bo Ryan had just finished season six in Madison, of six consecutive NCAA berths.
* Wisconsin has continued to appear in NCAA tournaments for the following five seasons with upper-division finishes each year, and will certainly be returning to the NCAA tournament this year.

So, my memory wasn't that off, although I forgot that Purdue was on the cusp of their really good run (but also heartbreaking run with Hummel's injuries) with Painter and I think I thought more highly of Illinois' immediate future than what occurred. I also recall thinking and probably typing that now was the time for Bo Ryan's glory to end its run; he had made hay back at the beginning of his era when Mike Davis, Dan Monson, Tommy Amaker, Steve Alford and Gene Keady (at the end of his career) were on the opposing sidelines, but now Wisconsin's rightful place in the second division of the Big Ten would be assured.

It's quite depressing for me to consider the lost opportunity that existed for the Gophers when this time presented itself; while Michigan State, Ohio State, and Illinois had all recently been to Final Fours or national championship games and Wisconsin had established itself as a consistent upper division presence in Big Ten basketball, there certainly seemed like there was room to move upward and that was before the Sampson scandal landed in Bloomington or the Bruce Webber era ended underwhelmingly in Champaign. The time was ripe for programs to leap into the first division of the Big Ten-Purdue did so, at least for a few years; Michigan appears to have done so solidly; Indiana is back to being Indiana and therefore solidly in the upper division. And while I will concede that these programs may be on more solid footing financially/facilities-wise, the golden opportunity was there for Tubby to take the Gophers to a higher level.

Provide as many excuses as you wish (facilities, Royce White, Devoe, RSIII not developing, Al Nolen's broken foot), you cannot move me off this point-Tubby Smith has drastically underachieved at Minnesota. Whether that's because of complacency, stubbornness, or the game passing him by is immaterial, but it's occurred. This, as others have pointed out, was his year-a solid, veteran starting lineup returning that had experienced a small taste of post-season success in the NIT, aided by a healthy Trevor Mbawke. An upper-division finish, top-20 ranking, and playing to the Sweet Sixteen provided some hope that the abundant recruiting classes that are coming in-state (looking beyond Jones and Vaughn) would catch Gophers fever and see how The Barn could rock for each game. This wasn't a year where the words "bubble" or "RPI" should or could have been part of the conversation. While the Sweet Sixteen and nabbing the top in-state recruits is still a possibility, I think the chances are becoming dimmer by the day.

Excuse me for feeling glum, but when I consider that the Iowa Hawkeyes, who have already changed coaches once since Tubby began at the "U", appear to be in much better shape stepping into 2013-14, I think it's appropriate for Gopher fans to questions whether it's time to go another direction.

I agree with most of what you posted. Although despite our struggles, bubble and RPI are only in the conversation for those frustrated. The reality is, if you didn't see the pattern of when our losses occurred...just opening a paper (okay, logging onto the computer) for the first time this year, and you looked at our record, RPI, wins, etc. RPI and bubble would not be in the conversation. We are not a bubble team, depsite the iowa debacle. Truth is, its a weird year as those close to the program (us, local media, etc) are pulling our hair out. However, those around the country, while not thinking the gophers are all that, consider us a solid NCAA team no matter how you slice it. None of my statements hide the fact that I wish Tubby had done better to this point.. but I am looking at the bright side. This team will likely be in the tourney and we have played non BT teams well under Tubby. This is why I would like to wait until the final game is played before I show up at Norwood's office with my demands for a new coach and direction written on a 10 foot scroll. Hey, the ink is ready, so who knows.. but I am going to wait it out.

 

[BleedGopher]

I agree with most of what you posted. Although despite our struggles, bubble and RPI are only in the conversation for those frustrated. The reality is, if you didn't see the pattern of when our losses occurred...just opening a paper (okay, logging onto the computer) for the first time this year, and you looked at our record, RPI, wins, etc. RPI and bubble would not be in the conversation. We are not a bubble team, depsite the iowa debacle. Truth is, its a weird year as those close to the program (us, local media, etc) are pulling our hair out. However, those around the country, while not thinking the gophers are all that, consider us a solid NCAA team no matter how you slice it. None of my statements hide the fact that I wish Tubby had done better to this point.. but I am looking at the bright side. This team will likely be in the tourney and we have played non BT teams well under Tubby. This is why I would like to wait until the final game is played before I show up at Norwood's office with my demands for a new coach and direction written on a 10 foot scroll. Hey, the ink is ready, so who knows.. but I am going to wait it out.

Rouser brings up a good point - the national opinion of Tubby and this current Gophers team is much better than the local one, and it has been for years. It's why we tend to get so much national attention at the beginning of seasons and some irrational exuberance when we get hot like we did earlier this year, or earlier in past seasons. The national reporters don't have to endure the game in and game out frustrations we do here since we watch every game and don't view Tubby or the Gophers in a vacuum. I'm not sure how much Teague will factor this in, but if he does make a move on Tubby he better have an immediate hire ready to go (within a week or so) as the national media will likely take some shots at him/us as the national opinion likely exists that Minnesota is lucky to have Tubby. Hopefully Teague blocks that out and makes whatever decision he believes is right for the program, but at the end of the day, holding on to Tubby for a season too long is likely a safer choice for an AD new to his role, though if he dares to be a great AD and not a safe AD, hard decisions need to be made, if Teague believes that is the direction at the end of the season.

Go Gophers!!

 

[station19]

Rouser brings up a good point - the national opinion of Tubby and this current Gophers team is much better than the local one, and it has been for years. It's why we tend to get so much national attention at the beginning of seasons and some irrational exuberance when we get hot like we did earlier this year, or earlier in past seasons. The national reporters don't have to endure the game in and game out frustrations we do here since we watch every game and don't view Tubby or the Gophers in a vacuum. I'm not sure how much Teague will factor this in, but if he does make a move on Tubby he better have an immediate hire ready to go (within a week or so) as the national media will likely take some shots at him/us as the national opinion likely exists that Minnesota is lucky to have Tubby. Hopefully Teague blocks that out and makes whatever decision he believes is right for the program, but at the end of the day, holding on to Tubby for a season too long is likely a safer choice for an AD new to his role, though if he dares to be a great AD and not a safe AD, hard decisions need to be made, if Teague believes that is the direction at the end of the season.

Go Gophers!!

That's what the TV guy said during the Wisconsin game. Does he think Tubby is that great or is MN that poor a destination. Either way it was a pathetic statement.

Teague seems like a guy more than willing to make bold decisions. Joel had a habit of letting coaches hang around too long.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Coolhand, thanks for doing this research and posting another one of your well thought out pieces. It's good to look back with some historical perspective, especially now that enough years have passed to allow perspective.

The other thing that concerns me in the present day is that, like you mentioned, Iowa is gaining what looks like sustainable traction. They're not just going to be better next year; they'll likely finish ahead of us in the conference standings this year. Purdue will be back; make no mistake. And then there's Nebraska, who has a lot of advantages and will only require time to become a solid contender. And what about the new programs, when and if they come in? As your thesis states, we had a chance to make some hay when Tubby arrived. There was a crack. "We coulda been a contenda." This year we're underachieving with what should have been Tubby's best team. Next year we're going to be looking up at a lot of teams in the standings unless we overachieve. I'm feeling your glumness.

 

[march madness]

ncaa or bust

That's what the TV guy said during the Wisconsin game. Does he think Tubby is that great or is MN that poor a destination. Either way it was a pathetic statement.

Teague seems like a guy more than willing to make bold decisions. Joel had a habit of letting coaches hang around too long.

This team seems like it could play better against good non-big ten teams. I will wait and see how we perform in the dance, barring a bigger collapse. It is something to consider long term though, if we want to recruit athletes for defense that have big holes in their games, knowing how hard it is to push the pace in the big ten. Athletes, not counting the late spring signings, that definitely aren't.

 

[Cayman]

I agree with most of what you posted. Although despite our struggles, bubble and RPI are only in the conversation for those frustrated. The reality is, if you didn't see the pattern of when our losses occurred...just opening a paper (okay, logging onto the computer) for the first time this year, and you looked at our record, RPI, wins, etc. RPI and bubble would not be in the conversation. We are not a bubble team, depsite the iowa debacle. Truth is, its a weird year as those close to the program (us, local media, etc) are pulling our hair out. However, those around the country, while not thinking the gophers are all that, consider us a solid NCAA team no matter how you slice it. None of my statements hide the fact that I wish Tubby had done better to this point.. but I am looking at the bright side. This team will likely be in the tourney and we have played non BT teams well under Tubby. This is why I would like to wait until the final game is played before I show up at Norwood's office with my demands for a new coach and direction written on a 10 foot scroll. Hey, the ink is ready, so who knows.. but I am going to wait it out.

Good post. I also like our chances in the tournament so long as we can get there and get at least a 7 seed or so.

I would like to point out a couple of small factual errors in coolhand's post. Illinois did not make the NIT last year, and Michigan hasn't made the Sweet Sixteen since 1994. Michigan lost in the first round last year to John Groce's 13 seed Ohio team, who did make the Sweet Sixteen.

We've had chances at very good seasons that have been ruined by injuries/transfers/suspensions. The 2009-10 team went 9-9 in the Big Ten regular season (12-10 counting tourney games (winning Big Ten record under Tubby, wut?)), two of those losses were by 1 point to the eventual Big Ten co-champs, and two others came in overtime. If we had Royce White and Trevor Mbakwe that year, we could have won the Big Ten, or at least gotten top 3 or so, at least a 12-6 conference regular season record. Then there was 2010-11, when we lost Justin Cobbs, Al Nolen, and Devoe Joseph, all three of our point guard options, in under a year. I have been a big Tubby backer, but whether it's his fault or not, I am getting a little tired of being disappointed these last 3 seasons.

 

[coolhandgopher]

Rouser and Bleed, you guys bring up good points-I think I'm feeling a bit desperate where the Gophers are concerned; although I can't look into a crystal ball, I am concerned that a finish somewhere between 6-8 in the Big Ten with a first round exit in the NCAA tourney will not spark much excitement amongst the fan base or recruits and when I look at the current roster for next season doesn't inspire thoughts of a climb out of mediocrity.

Again, I'm being quite gloomy; if the NCAA tournament has taught us anything over the years it is that favorable match-ups can propel a team into the Sweet 16 or even Elite Eight and as has been stated, the success for Tubby's Gophers against teams outside of the Big Ten has been solid. I sure hope I begin eating my words beginning with Wednesday night's game against the Buckeyes.

 

[BleedGopher]

Rouser and Bleed, you guys bring up good points-I think I'm feeling a bit desperate where the Gophers are concerned; although I can't look into a crystal ball, I am concerned that a finish somewhere between 6-8 in the Big Ten with a first round exit in the NCAA tourney will not spark much excitement amongst the fan base or recruits and when I look at the current roster for next season doesn't inspire thoughts of a climb out of mediocrity.

Again, I'm being quite gloomy; if the NCAA tournament has taught us anything over the years it is that favorable match-ups can propel a team into the Sweet 16 or even Elite Eight and as has been stated, the success for Tubby's Gophers against teams outside of the Big Ten has been solid. I sure hope I begin eating my words beginning with Wednesday night's game against the Buckeyes.

I think you are 100% right that a 6-8 place BT finish and a first round NCAA exit will not create excitement, nor should it. If that's the fate we have, we'll find out all we need to know about Teague's vision for the Athletic Department. Is he a safe or bold AD.

Go Gophers!!

 

[station19]

I think you are 100% right that a 6-8 place BT finish and a first round NCAA exit will not create excitement, nor should it. If that's the fate we have, we'll find out all we need to know about Teague's vision for the Athletic Department. Is he a safe or bold AD.

Go Gophers!!

What about the 6-8 and one ncaa win? Will that create excitement?

 

[march madness]

One ncaa win might be a treading water year.

 

[BleedGopher]

What about the 6-8 and one ncaa win? Will that create excitement?

I don't think so, but I don't think Teague makes a move if we win an NCAA tourney game, but that's just my gut instinct. I think at this point we have three chances for true excitement around the program left this year:

- Beating a #1 ranked Indiana team at home (as long as we don't follow it up with a bad loss right away)
- Winning the Big Ten Tourney title
- Making it to the Sweet 16 or better

And the latter is the most important, obviously.

Go Gophers!!

 

[Bad Gopher]

Teague seems like a guy more than willing to make bold decisions. Joel had a habit of letting coaches hang around too long.

It's clear so far that Teague is reshaping the athletic department comprehensively. He hasn't been shy about moving things around and moving things out. That old orange chair your parents bought in 1964 is at the curb.

I don't think whatever happens, if anything happens, is going to be a Saturday night massacre where the angel of death swoops in out of nowhere. We don't know what kind of working relationship has been established between Tubby and Norwood. If that aspect of it is a good scene - if Teague feels he can work with Smith to get things on track - that will be a definite factor. If, on the other hand, a strong relationship hasn't developed, or if Tubby has been a difficult employee to supervise, I don't like his chances to stick around in the short or medium term. Relationships matter. It's total speculation and so dependent on the relationships, but some sort of honorable exit strategy for Smith should be recognized as a possibility. If something like that happens, it may end up being far different from what occurred at Kentucky. This might be a far more amicable parting of the ways.

 

[station19]

It's clear so far that Teague is reshaping the athletic department comprehensively. He hasn't been shy about moving things around and moving things out. That old orange chair your parents bought in 1964 is at the curb.

I don't think whatever happens, if anything happens, is going to be a Saturday night massacre where the angel of death swoops in out of nowhere. We don't know what kind of working relationship has been established between Tubby and Norwood. If that aspect of it is a good scene - if Teague feels he can work with Smith to get things on track - that will be a definite factor. If, on the other hand, a strong relationship hasn't developed, or if Tubby has been a difficult employee to supervise, I don't like his chances to stick around in the short or medium term. Relationships matter. It's total speculation and so dependent on the relationships, but some sort of honorable exit strategy for Smith should be recognized as a possibility. If something like that happens, it may end up being far different from what occurred at Kentucky. This might be a far more amicable parting of the ways.

Good points and bold noted.

I still remember that bit in Tubby's contract extension, something about the 'two parties can re-address the extension' after this season. I know GW said it meant nothing, but I just have a strange feeling about that. Probably just me.

 

[mplarson7]

Michigan made it to the Sweet Sixteen? I seem to recall them losing to Ohio in their opening game last year...

 

[coolhandgopher]

Michigan made it to the Sweet Sixteen? I seem to recall them losing to Ohio in their opening game last year...

I messed up on that one; the way I was reading Beilein's Wikipedia entry, I saw it as they made it into the Sweet Sixteen (I still have a tough time about the play-in games being deemed opening round contests).

 

[Rouser]

I messed up on that one; the way I was reading Beilein's Wikipedia entry, I saw it as they made it into the Sweet Sixteen (I still have a tough time about the play-in games being deemed opening round contests).

I had to smile at the Wikipedia reference. The bible of modern reference I agree with you and Bleed that a 6 to 8 finish and a first round bounce in the tourney does nothing for me and a change may be needed. But if we change now, it needs to be a splash (Shaka, etc) or else, why bother at this point.

This all said, can we just get a Sweet 16 run and get everybody all happy again?

 

[beavergopher]

Let me say this once again. THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT TIME.

You are correct. We should wait till Nebraska and Penn State pass us by. To actually expect results from our HOF(laugh) coach would not be very Minnesota nice.
Should we give Tubby another extension so we don't hurt his self esteem?

 

[BarnBurner]

Rouser brings up a good point - the national opinion of Tubby and this current Gophers team is much better than the local one, and it has been for years. It's why we tend to get so much national attention at the beginning of seasons and some irrational exuberance when we get hot like we did earlier this year, or earlier in past seasons. The national reporters don't have to endure the game in and game out frustrations we do here since we watch every game and don't view Tubby or the Gophers in a vacuum. I'm not sure how much Teague will factor this in, but if he does make a move on Tubby he better have an immediate hire ready to go (within a week or so) as the national media will likely take some shots at him/us as the national opinion likely exists that Minnesota is lucky to have Tubby. Hopefully Teague blocks that out and makes whatever decision he believes is right for the program, but at the end of the day, holding on to Tubby for a season too long is likely a safer choice for an AD new to his role, though if he dares to be a great AD and not a safe AD, hard decisions need to be made, if Teague believes that is the direction at the end of the season.

Go Gophers!!

I dont think there was much "irrational exuberance" earlier in the season. The team was performing to the expectations of how an experienced team with senior leadership and a ncaa champ winning coach should be performing.