What role does S&C play in injury prevention?

[El Amin Fan]

I know Coach Kill was very vocal about our S&C coach, and often called him the best in the country. Our guys seemed to get bigger, faster and stronger throughout their career. I am curious what role S&C should play in injury prevention. We had a lot of injuries this past season. Is that pure coincidence that so many happened in one season or could our S&C program contributed to this, or at least was it not as effective in preventing injury as it should be? I saw the Vikings fired their S&C coach this past week after quite a few guys had pectoral injuries. That was a series of injuries in the same physical location so I can see a need to re-evaluate, but I'm curious if the U has done any analysis reviewing our S&C program. Now that we appear to be moving to more agile and quicker linemen, does that change the S&C program as well?

 

[Pompous Elitist]

This is one of those areas that has to be purely speculation. There are a lot of different approaches to strength and conditioning.

A couple years ago the team started doing some yoga training, probably due to the success of this guy: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/31/s...n-redefines-strength.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1

Stanford has an admirable program in many ways, and their team has been noticeably free of major injury issues in recent years. Perhaps a focus on flexibility and functional strength vs hitting numbers on squats etc has some merit. Perhaps smaller, more mobile linemen vs trying to develop maulers has merit.

Muscle imbalances, should they develop are going to cause problems. Same goes for poor lift technique, lack of recovery time which are the coaches responsibility. Perhaps guys are being brought back too soon from minor injuries. Perhaps the cleats are too long for turf. Better to slip than blow an ACL.

I've learned the hard way about many of these injury issues, so it is near to my heart. We have to trust the coaches, but if we can't keep guys on the field the philosophy needs to be reviewed.

 

[nsmike]

S&C helps but they have to be combined with good technique on the field. I've had a suspicion that there was something wrong with the O-line and have wondered if technique might be part of it. After he was fired, Limegrover admitted, that being both the OC and OL Coach was too much and he wasn't giving proper attention to either. I think that that was part of the reason Coach Claeys insisted on a full time O-line coach.

 

[#2Gopher]

S&C helps but they have to be combined with good technique on the field. I've had a suspicion that there was something wrong with the O-line and have wondered if technique might be part of it. After he was fired, Limegrover admitted, that being both the OC and OL Coach was too much and he wasn't giving proper attention to either. I think that that was part of the reason Coach Claeys insisted on a full time O-line coach.

I keep hearing that Limegrover admitted he wasn't givivg the proper attention to his duties. Where was Kill through all this?

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

This is one of those areas that has to be purely speculation. There are a lot of different approaches to strength and conditioning.

A couple years ago the team started doing some yoga training, probably due to the success of this guy: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/31/s...n-redefines-strength.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1

Stanford has an admirable program in many ways, and their team has been noticeably free of major injury issues in recent years. Perhaps a focus on flexibility and functional strength vs hitting numbers on squats etc has some merit. Perhaps smaller, more mobile linemen vs trying to develop maulers has merit.

Muscle imbalances, should they develop are going to cause problems. Same goes for poor lift technique, lack of recovery time which are the coaches responsibility. Perhaps guys are being brought back too soon from minor injuries. Perhaps the cleats are too long for turf. Better to slip than blow an ACL.

I've learned the hard way about many of these injury issues, so it is near to my heart. We have to trust the coaches, but if we can't keep guys on the field the philosophy needs to be reviewed.

Flexibility is everything. Period. They should be doing yoga 3 times a week, without a doubt.

I am absolutely amazed at the lack of flexibility that MOST college football players have. It's astounding. Big guys are the worst. Looking around at the beginning of practice every day when I was playing, during our stretch session, I couldn't believe the number of guys that had trouble just touching their toes.

Good example (maybe a coincidence, but I doubt it); Jonathan Ogden, the long time LT for the Ravens, goes to the same yoga class that I do, has for a very long time. By my rough count, he missed a whopping 7 games in his first TEN SEASONS with the Ravens, 7 of those seasons he didn't miss a start.

Flexibility is by FAR AND AWAY the most critical part of staying healthy. I don't know how much of a focus it is with the Gophers NOW, but it should probably be even more of a focus.

 

[MaxyJR1]

https://www.facebook.com/1500ESPN/posts/1101434619887178


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[Spoofin]

Flexibility is everything. Period. They should be doing yoga 3 times a week, without a doubt.

I am absolutely amazed at the lack of flexibility that MOST college football players have. It's astounding. Big guys are the worst. Looking around at the beginning of practice every day when I was playing, during our stretch session, I couldn't believe the number of guys that had trouble just touching their toes.

Good example (maybe a coincidence, but I doubt it); Jonathan Ogden, the long time LT for the Ravens, goes to the same yoga class that I do, has for a very long time. By my rough count, he missed a whopping 7 games in his first TEN SEASONS with the Ravens, 7 of those seasons he didn't miss a start.

Flexibility is by FAR AND AWAY the most critical part of staying healthy. I don't know how much of a focus it is with the Gophers NOW, but it should probably be even more of a focus.

Well, if Jonathan Ogden does yoga and doesn't get hurt much then clearly the Gophers need to do more yoga. I can't think of any more proof needed for that conclusion.

 

[BarnBoy]

Flexibility is everything. Period. They should be doing yoga 3 times a week, without a doubt. I am absolutely amazed at the lack of flexibility that MOST college football players have. It's astounding. Big guys are the worst. Looking around at the beginning of practice every day when I was playing, during our stretch session, I couldn't believe the number of guys that had trouble just touching their toes. Good example (maybe a coincidence, but I doubt it); Jonathan Ogden, the long time LT for the Ravens, goes to the same yoga class that I do, has for a very long time. By my rough count, he missed a whopping 7 games in his first TEN SEASONS with the Ravens, 7 of those seasons he didn't miss a start. Flexibility is by FAR AND AWAY the most critical part of staying healthy. I don't know how much of a focus it is with the Gophers NOW, but it should probably be even more of a focus.

Your avatar image checks out...

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Your avatar image checks out...

Well that goes without saying...

But it doesn't change the fact that you avoid injury by working on your flexibility. Plain and simple. Doesn't have to be yoga but it better be something.

 

[BarnBoy]

Well that goes without saying...

But it doesn't change the fact that you avoid injury by working on your flexibility. Plain and simple. Doesn't have to be yoga but it better be something.

I was talking about the flexibility on display in your avatar... your post was about flexibility. Wasn't a shot at you.

 

[corcoran1]

I believe the team did some yoga a year or two ago and stopped for some reason. That is purely from memory, so maybe I am wrong. Teams have to make choices about where to spend their time. I am not arguing we should not be doing Yoga, just that right or wrong teams have to figure out where they will be investing their S&C time.
I am a hadmong the least informed on here on S&C, but based on everything Coach k has said since he got here, they evaluate how everything is working after every off season, probably starting about Feb 4. Given the impact injuries to both lines have had on our last two seasons, evaluating everything we are doing on both lines from recruiting, to technique, and S&C would seem to be fair game.

 

[husker70]

First you have to catalog the injuries and time lost or playing at say less than 80 percent. You cannot count or ascribe broken bones or concussions to this. Probably the most frequent injuries are lower body. Knees, ankles, or foot.

I am sure Coach Klein has all the numbers to work with.

Catching a ball and breaking a finger or three could drop you into the less than 80% category or possibly not playing. Twisting an ankle, spraining an ankle, plantar factitious, or a tear to the metatarsal tendon, or other foot problems would also be taken out of the study.

So that leaves hip pointers, torn hamstring, knee tendons, Achilles tendon. Most important in any conditioning is some form of dynamic stretching. The stretching is key lengthening the muscle. And allows a full range of motion. Weight training without some dedicated time to dynamic stretching, yoga, or other is a recipe for torn muscles, tendons, and more.

Again see coach Klein.

 

[Ole]

We stayed very healthy in 2014, were bit badly by injuries in 2015.

I'll throw a theory out there: We beat the hell out of our team playing TCU toe to toe, and never recovered.

In 2014 Cobb had a ton of carries and held up until the very end, Leidner and Maxx both overcame nagging injuries by sitting out the SJSU game. Our O-line remained intact for the most part, and the defense stayed healthy at the top of the depth chart, especially the secondary. Our S&C guys looked like geniuses that season.

Key injuries to Lauer, Campion, Bjorkland, Christensen, and Pirsig killed the offense up front. I absolutely blame Limegrover for not having better depth there and not managing the injured guys better. Something that was being done in technique or practice left our upperclassmen OL beat to hell and broken down.
Add in Leidner's foot injury and that was a recipe for disaster regardless of the promising young running backs contributions. This was a power running team that couldn't run power or protect the QB on play-action.
The O couldn't control the ball which trickled down to every aspect of the program including our defense and special teams.
The scheme tweeks and new techniques up front on offense might make as much of a difference to the injury situation as anything S&C will do this offseason, as will an infusion of youth to the OL and good experienced depth at TE.

 

[nsmike]

We stayed very healthy in 2014, were bit badly by injuries in 2015.

I'll throw a theory out there: We beat the hell out of our team playing TCU toe to toe, and never recovered.

In 2014 Cobb had a ton of carries and held up until the very end, Leidner and Maxx both overcame nagging injuries by sitting out the SJSU game. Our O-line remained intact for the most part, and the defense stayed healthy at the top of the depth chart, especially the secondary. Our S&C guys looked like geniuses that season.

Key injuries to Lauer, Campion, Bjorkland, Christensen, and Pirsig killed the offense up front. I absolutely blame Limegrover for not having better depth there and not managing the injured guys better. Something that was being done in technique or practice left our upperclassmen OL beat to hell and broken down.
Add in Leidner's foot injury and that was a recipe for disaster regardless of the promising young running backs contributions. This was a power running team that couldn't run power or protect the QB on play-action.
The O couldn't control the ball which trickled down to every aspect of the program including our defense and special teams.
The scheme tweeks and new techniques up front on offense might make as much of a difference to the injury situation as anything S&C will do this offseason, as will an infusion of youth to the OL and good experienced depth at TE.

Nice summation. I'd like to add that while S&C doesn't help with concussions technique does.

 

[Spoofin]

Does Plastic Man have any eligibility left? Dude is ultra-flexible.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

I think you can just have a pile of bad luck with injuries.

I feel like if there was a specific verifiable program that prevents injuries .... everyone would be doing that.

No doubt doing some work helps, but I don't think the outcome is a sure deal.

I see S&C coaches tossed after injury seasons at all levels of sport. Team gets better and new guy is praised, until that isn't the case anymore...

Otherwise I think it is a lot of dumb luck and guesswork.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

If economics is the dismal science (and it is), then S&C is the dingy science.

To my knowledge, there is no widespread database of injuries by type, severity, by team that could be cross referenced with a particular coaching scheme, field type, environmental factors, etc.

If a coach is "old school", and we probably have a few here, then guys are probably going to be pushed to the point of muscle imbalances, thus injury-prone. They will probably be rushed back too soon or not given a real off season to rehab, so you get lingering injuries.