What more do some of you want?

[BeLikeWisconsin]

This is a question to the few posters who are defending Kill and Teague on this one: Do you expect it to be both ways? You guys/gals are the type that will stick with the Gophs no matter what. Great. We don't have enough of you compared to the "helmet" schools, or dare I saw, Wisconsin.

But, I'd bet you guys complain about the lack of apathy, how the Vikes get all the attention (case in point, multiple articles about the vikes all the time on the SPPP website, rarely a Gopher article) and you want a larger fan base. Well, you got it. And now that we voice our displeasure, you're upset.

This type of stuff comes with large fan bases. Do you think everyone in New York applauds Rex Ryans decisions, or benching A-Rod, etc.? Even locally, in 2011 when the vikes had glaring needs on defense, they spent their first two draft picks on (a) a QB that many thought was a reach, not to mention they had spent $5M on McNabb, and (b) a TE, even though they had a good one in Shiancoe. I remember watching that draft, thinking WTF.

So no, don't think that you can increase the fan base and expect us all to sit on our hands and nod up and down everytime something happens.

I grew up here, a fan of the Twins and Vikings, and when I was a freshman at the U of M, I didn't even know we had a rouser, let alone any of the words to it. I had no clue who any of the football players were either. Yet here I am now, knowledgeable about the backups and where they came from and who the recruits are and such.

You want more people like me, expect to hear dissent from time to time. Or find me a large fan base that doesn't have dissent.

 

[GoodasGold]

I'm in Madison beering up for Saturday's game, so I'm at at bit of a disadvantage, BUT I will tell you that we Gopher fans never complain about the lack of apathy for Gopher sports. Other than that, I really don't know what to say.

 

[LesBolstad]

Yep!

You are correct. Many of the apologists justifying the NC debacle are the types that have sat idly by for 45 years while this program crumbled. Through Smokey Joe, Gutey, Wack, Brew. I just hope JK is not another one to add to that list.

 

[Gopherprof]

I want you to respond in one of the 10,000 threads already talking about the North Carolina game.

 

[Unregistered User]

...the lack of apathy...

Yeah...NO! WAIT!

 

[Great Plains Gopher]

What more do we want? How about a trophy game win on the road? That would do it for me. The N. Carolina thing is way overblown (except maybe for the money). But purely in football terms, Nebraska is far more of a challenge and a draw and we have to play them every year, plus Michigan, Iowa and Wisconsin every year. I don't blame coach for wanting a softer non-con schedule for now.

 

[maroonfive]

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I go to every Gopher home football game regardless of the opponent. I go to see the Gophers play and I really don't care about the opposition.

Go Gophers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RailBaronYarr]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I go to every Gopher home football game regardless of the opponent. I go to see the Gophers play and I really don't care about the opposition.

Go Gophers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don't get the least bit more excited for some games than others because of the opponent? The game at home in 2009 against Cal wasn't any more exciting to you than the SDSU game (regardless of where our season's trajectory had taken us)? USC at home in 2010 didn't hold any more luster than South Dakota did? Wisconsin or Iowa games aren't any more fun than Western Michigan? Come on. Seriously.

Playing respectable programs from conferences somewhat close to the B10 in terms of national prestige is good for us. A loss to a team like UNC on the road (or even at home) similar to the Cal/USC losses doesn't hurt our team's ego. Don't treat them like moral victories if you do lose, but you actually can gain something by winning. We get to visit a true college campus and recruit in a great area (as opposed to repeat games with NDSU, Western Michigan, New Mexico St, etc), our fans get a great road trip, and we get to host an ACC team and their fans here. Game is most likely played on ESPN rather than BTN (as great as BTN is, ESPN holds more weight and will get more eyes outside of diehard B10 fans in B10 country). A win against a team like UNC plus 3 pastries gets us ranked going in to week 5 whereas winning 4 pastry games gets us... maybe a couple votes in one of the major polls. No national attention. You have an easier time selling said game out when you're at home, and the years you play away you still have 7 home games.

We proved both years we played USC and the more recent Cal game that even our crummy teams CAN play close with talented teams, and the hype for the game is most likely what fueled our players to see what their potential truly is. That's my take. It's not a travesty that we cancelled the series, but I am disappointed by it nonetheless. Some years (read: every other year) our Big Ten home slate is a little lean on the exciting games (like, I dunno, 2014 would have been without Iowa, Nebraska, Wisconsin on the schedule). Would be nice to have the option of a slightly exciting game on the NC schedule to draw fans in and possibly sneak a win and REALLY build some momentum team and fan-wise heading into the B10 schedule.

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

I go to every Gopher home football game regardless of the opponent. I go to see the Gophers play and I really don't care about the opposition.


Go Gophers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Gophers make the schedule and I buy the tickets. Its that simple. We all have different roles but the purpose is the same.

 

[Go4Broke]

The Gophers make the schedule and I buy the tickets. Its that simple. We all have different roles but the purpose is the same.

Amazing!. You just stated in only three short sentences everything we need to know about why the Gopher football team has not won a Big 10 Championship since 1967.

But I can do even better than you just did: The primary reason the Gopher football team has not won a Big 10 Championship since 1967 is that alumni and fans have have allowed the people who run the U to get away with not winning championships and still keep their jobs.

 

[Ron Johnson Super Fan]

Amazing!. You just stated in only three short sentences everything we need to know about why the Gopher football team has not won a Big 10 Championship since 1967.

But I can do even better than you just did: The primary reason the Gopher football team has not won a Big 10 Championship since 1967 is that alumni and fans have have allowed the people who run the U to get away with not winning championships and still keep their jobs.

Yeah, if everyone refused to renew their season tickets and our base went down to zero it would be great for the program. Bet the university would change their minds and allow us to win a national championship in 2013.

 

[mnsports1]

Amazing!. You just stated in only three short sentences everything we need to know about why the Gopher football team has not won a Big 10 Championship since 1967.

But I can do even better than you just did: The primary reason the Gopher football team has not won a Big 10 Championship since 1967 is that alumni and fans have have allowed the people who run the U to get away with not winning championships and still keep their jobs.

If only you would have told us this 45 years ago, we would be going for our 46th straight Nat'l Championship!

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

Amazing!. You just stated in only three short sentences everything we need to know about why the Gopher football team has not won a Big 10 Championship since 1967.

But I can do even better than you just did: The primary reason the Gopher football team has not won a Big 10 Championship since 1967 is that alumni and fans have have allowed the people who run the U to get away with not winning championships and still keep their jobs.

The only control I have over the program is to make the decision to buy season tickets and to support the team or not. Its that simple.

You must be different!

 

[RailBaronYarr]

The only control I have over the program is to make the decision to buy season tickets and to support the team or not. Its that simple.

You must be different!

Not true. As fans or members of the general population there are other things that influence supporting the team. Buying gear, traveling to away games (purchasing tickets through the U), bringing non-fans or people on the fence to the game by purchasing extra tickets, going to tailgate lots owned by the U, watching them play on national TV (more eyes watching increases our liklihood to be carried on better networks and/or increase the revenue we get as part of a deal with ESPN/other). We are in a 2 way relationship with the University of Minnesota as fans (or even people who aren't really fans). Playing in bigger games has an impact on the image of the program and interest from local and national people.

If the University of Minnesota dropped out of the Big Ten and decided to play in the MAC, would you still support the team regardless? Would it still draw the same interest as our current schedule? Would you ever travel to away games? It is not an unconditional relationship. I continue to buy season tickets because I think (even at the price) the atmosphere at the games, the quality of football, and the opponents I get to see my team compete against (including B10 rivals and the special games like USC/Cal/Syracuse) are worth it to me. There is a point where that would no longer be the case. Be it them removing the marching band (I would cancel my tickets immediately) or permanently losing some major B10 teams.

Losing the UNC game due to a B10 scheduling conflict, them dropping out, or another opponent opportunity wouldn't bother me very much. Choosing not to play UNC early in the year to build some momentum for the season simply because they're a "little too tough" and scheduling a team with a nearly guaranteed win so we can maybe go 6+ wins and compete in a bowl to play a team similar to UNC is a little absurd in reasoning to me. Play UNC 50% of the games at home (where your own fan base isn't required to travel to a bowl site), and have a 50/50 shot at a win and build some national reputation (and if you win ALSO go to a bowl)... Or... play a weaker team to ensure that extra win to make sure that even in a down year you get to go to the Little Caesar's Bowl to play someone like Western Michigan. As a fan, I'll take the former. If I were the AD, I'd take the former as well. But that's just me. I'll trust Kill/Teague and pray that in 5 years we've won a B10 title that can be attributed mostly to us scheduling softer teams, and I will eat some serious crow

 

[CP Gopher]

"... play a weaker team to ensure that extra win to make sure that even in a down year you get to go to the Little Caesar's Bowl to play someone like Western Michigan."

Will people be standing at this game? And will the students show up late?

 

[Gopherprof]

Amazing!. You just stated in only three short sentences everything we need to know about why the Gopher football team has not won a Big 10 Championship since 1967.

But I can do even better than you just did: The primary reason the Gopher football team has not won a Big 10 Championship since 1967 is that alumni and fans have have allowed the people who run the U to get away with not winning championships and still keep their jobs.

These Gopherhole circle jerks are fun and all, but they always inevitably lead to a vast overestimation of the importance of fans on the product.

The primary reason why the Gophers haven't won a Big Ten title since 1967 is because Ohio/Pennsylvania/Michigan/Illinois high school football absolutely smokes Minnesota high school football and we've had an impossible time trying to fill in the gap by recruiting guys from Texas and Florida (in large part because most of the guys we're getting from those states are the leftovers that the big programs don't want).

Look at the list of Gophers in the NFL since the 1970s. It's a veritable list of "who's that?" Sure, there have been a handful of guys (Decker, Spaeth, Barber, Eslinger, Maroney, Carter), but not nearly enough.

Iowa and Wisconsin have been extreme exceptions to the rule due to, frankly, an incredibly impressive player development program that took years to develop (and both of those schools have also done a much better job of recruiting the Chicago-area due to their proximity), but in most cases you can draw a pretty straight line from nearby high school talent to college success.

Certainly we could have had higher expectations over the years, but there are huge structural issues that hold the U back. We are incredibly geographically isolated from the main areas of football talent, and this simply isn't a football-crazy state that's going to make up the difference.

I think some people want to believe if only we cared a little more, or stood a little more during the games, or demanded more of the administration, that we could turn the program around. It's not that easy.

 

[RodentRampage]

But I can do even better than you just did: The primary reason the Gopher football team has not won a Big 10 Championship since 1967 is that alumni and fans have have allowed the people who run the U to get away with not winning championships and still keep their jobs.

If people just stopped attending games, stopped buying Gophers gear, stopped donating, somehow that would make Gopher football better?

The U has made a long string of mistaken hires. The last time the Gophers won 6 Big Ten games in a season was under Cal Stoll in 1973. The Gophers were 4-4 in the Big Ten his final three seasons. The Gophers haven't put together three consecutive non-losing seasons since than. Firing Cal Stoll was a mistake.

Then the Gophers hired Joe Salem. He had a good record as a D-II coach, but no D-I experience. He was hired because of his Minnesota connections. Mistake.

Lou Holtz took the Gophers out of the ditch, but when he left after two years, the U hired Gutekunst. Gutekunst kept the Gophers mediocre for 4 of his 6 seasons, but two of his seasons were awful. The Gophers didn't take any steps forward.

Then we hired Wacker. He had a losing record as a head coach, and went on to lead the Gophers to the worst era in Gophers history.

The U hired Brewster, who had no experience as a head coach or a coordinator.

 

[disco]

These Gopherhole circle jerks are fun and all, but they always inevitably lead to a vast overestimation of the importance of fans on the product.

The primary reason why the Gophers haven't won a Big Ten title since 1967 is because Ohio/Pennsylvania/Michigan/Illinois high school football absolutely smokes Minnesota high school football and we've had an impossible time trying to fill in the gap by recruiting guys from Texas and Florida (in large part because most of the guys we're getting from those states are the leftovers that the big programs don't want).

Look at the list of Gophers in the NFL since the 1970s. It's a veritable list of "who's that?" Sure, there have been a handful of guys (Decker, Spaeth, Barber, Eslinger, Maroney, Carter), but not nearly enough.

Iowa and Wisconsin have been extreme exceptions to the rule due to, frankly, an incredibly impressive player development program that took years to develop (and both of those schools have also done a much better job of recruiting the Chicago-area due to their proximity), but in most cases you can draw a pretty straight line from nearby high school talent to college success.

Certainly we could have had higher expectations over the years, but there are huge structural issues that hold the U back. We are incredibly geographically isolated from the main areas of football talent, and this simply isn't a football-crazy state that's going to make up the difference.

I think some people want to believe if only we cared a little more, or stood a little more during the games, or demanded more of the administration, that we could turn the program around. It's not that easy.

While I agree with most of this, how would you explain Nebraska's success over the years?

 

[Gopherprof]

While I agree with most of this, how would you explain Nebraska's success over the years?

A few unique set of circumstances and events, but primarily an insane personal and financial commitment to the team that honestly can only be fostered somewhere where there is literally no competition. Nebraska has facilities that are really second to none, and an established pipeline to Texas that predates football on television.

It also helped that they had one of the best college coaches in the history of football to drop into their lap in the 1960s and never leave.

I do think, however, that Nebraska will never return to what they used to be. The expansion of the college football world into larger multi-regional conferences really hurt their ability to recruit Texas, and the move to the Big Ten has only exacerbated that.

But again, those are exceptions. We can strive to be the exception, of course, but simply thinking that those programs were successful because they demanded more is foolish and ignorant at best.

 

[we will win this week?]

Isn't it great that we can tell our grandchildren, we were there when the gophers canceled two games with the mighty North Carolina Tar Heels. Marking the end of relevance for this once proud program.
Let's just show up and cheer the gophers on to victory.
Beat Wisconsin-Go Gophers!

 

[littlebigboy]

If you stick with Coach Kill and let him build this program the right way you will be able to be proud of the Gophers. If you look at these other programs or Helmet schools as some call them, check the age of most of the starters, they are 3-4-5th yr players and not 1-2-3rd yr players, Until Kill or any coach here can get to this point we will continue to lose. Give the man support and if 5 yrs. down the line he hasn't built the pgm back up like he has done before then don'[t piss around fire him then. You do not build a pgm in 2-3 yrs, it doesn't happen, at least not often.

 

[WHB Brewer]

A few unique set of circumstances and events, but primarily an insane personal and financial commitment to the team that honestly can only be fostered somewhere where there is literally no competition. Nebraska has facilities that are really second to none, and an established pipeline to Texas that predates football on television.

It also helped that they had one of the best college coaches in the history of football to drop into their lap in the 1960s and never leave.

I do think, however, that Nebraska will never return to what they used to be. The expansion of the college football world into larger multi-regional conferences really hurt their ability to recruit Texas, and the move to the Big Ten has only exacerbated that.

But again, those are exceptions. We can strive to be the exception, of course, but simply thinking that those programs were successful because they demanded more is foolish and ignorant at best.

Then what about the rise of Boise St. In This new modern era where Nebraska can no longer compete?

 

[WHB Brewer]

If you stick with Coach Kill and let him build this program the right way you will be able to be proud of the Gophers. If you look at these other programs or Helmet schools as some call them, check the age of most of the starters, they are 3-4-5th yr players and not 1-2-3rd yr players, Until Kill or any coach here can get to this point we will continue to lose. Give the man support and if 5 yrs. down the line he hasn't built the pgm back up like he has done before then don'[t piss around fire him then. You do not build a pgm in 2-3 yrs, it doesn't happen, at least not often.

My thoughts exactly. Let's be a little more patient here.

 

[Gopherprof]

Then what about the rise of Boise St. In This new modern era where Nebraska can no longer compete?

The rise to what? I never said Nebraska would never compete, I said they would never be what they used to be. Boise State doesn't even come close to what Nebraska used to be.

 

[BeLikeWisconsin]

The Gophers make the schedule and I buy the tickets. Its that simple. We all have different roles but the purpose is the same.

Are you like this with everything in your life? Do you hire a guy to paint your house, and if he forgets to tape and put down plastic, and he gets paint on your trim and carpet, do you just shrug you shoulders and say, "He does the painting and I pay him. It's that simple. His role is to paint, mine is to pay." And do you call him back for repeat business? OR, do you critique his work, and if he doesn't fix it, you find a new painter?

This is what we are doing - criticizing the work of a product that WE pay for (tickets, merchandise, sitting through commercials, taxes to build the stadium, etc.).

If no one criticized the painter, he would never strive to be better, would he?

 

[BeLikeWisconsin]

If only you would have told us this 45 years ago, we would be going for our 46th straight Nat'l Championship!

No, but the program building that we want to see would have STARTED 45 years ago. Where do you think we'd be with a 45 year head start?????????

 

[BeLikeWisconsin]

If people just stopped attending games, stopped buying Gophers gear, stopped donating, somehow that would make Gopher football better?

No, but I would provide the MOTIVATION. Cut off a source of millions of dollars and I think the U might take notice.

 

[BeLikeWisconsin]

If you look at these other programs or Helmet schools as some call them, check the age of most of the starters, they are 3-4-5th yr players and not 1-2-3rd yr players, Until Kill or any coach here can get to this point we will continue to lose.

Hmmm, so in Kill's 3rd and 4th years, when he was going to play North Carolina, his players would have that experience, right? He kept Shortell here, who would be in his 3rd and 4th years, same for RBs, WRs, lineman, etc.

Your point again????