as BayFieldGopher pointed out the other day--what the heck was Nolen doing playing at Indiana--or any of the last few games if his studies were that far behind. I know we dont know all the info but shouldnt Tubby have firmly placed his butt in study hall instead of the recent road trip or even the recent home games? Tighten it up Tubby.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
What I dont understand
- Thread starter Doc1001
- Start date
"Adequate Progress" Is The Key
Recalling the Kevin Payton situation last season, who if I'm not mistaken, graduated in May 2009 after being declared "ineligible" that same semester, Nolen may have an issue with incompletes/credits. So the comments regarding "get to class" or "why don't you get your
work done over the break" are moot.
Instructors have one year to accept work to make up an incomplete and many create a more stringent requirement for those students in an effort to be fair to students who completed the coursework on time. Not too many professors I've dealt with are too jazzed with using their holiday break time for this purpose and they are not required to do so. As a person who has actually worked with college undergraduates (most of them NOT athletes), given the constraints on student-athletes regarding the revamped academic eligibility rules, it precludes them from the advantages that the "I" grade provides for the non-athlete student for that reason alone.
Students are required to maintain a minimum amount of credits per semester to be considered "full-time" and in the non-athletic world that means most students take 15-18 credits as a cushion. To drop a class or take an "I" does not have an impact on that student's full-time status or adequate progress towards graduation (on paper).
Many student-athletes (and other first-generation college students) do not have the organizational skills to successfully handle that credit load. Unfortunately, the practice used by most athletic advising offices is for those student-athletes to carry the minimum credit load of 12 (three 4 credit classes, four 3 credit classes -not common- or some combo that equals 13). This does not leave a lot of room for error or mistakes. One bad semester, if properly timed (in this case, Spring for basketball) won't hurt you since you can complete the "I" or take another course over the summer. However, if this happens with a 12 credit course load in the Fall semester, it's the kiss of death (especially if the Fall semester is preceded by a "catch up" summer).
Now I'm not close enough to the Nolen situation to know what is going on with him, but as a person who has had experience assisting both types of students (athletes and non-athletes) with these issues, I think that both Tubby and the Academic advising office bear greater responsibility for this situation than the average fan thinks. Ultimately, the brunt of the responsibility falls on Nolen, but as I've learned working with first-generation college students, they don't always know when or how to ask for the type of academic assistance they need. If you know a student-athlete is "struggling," a more hands on approach is required. Without knowing more about the situation, I cannot offer solutions and that would a 20/20 hindsight scenario anyway.
The University has always had a suspect academic advising crew because they base their hires on cronyism and academic record, not actual effectiveness and concrete advising skills. This is why the Minnesota has one of the lowest graduation rates in the Big Ten. Other institutions are doing a much better job.
Hope that Nolen works it out and is back on the court soon. Meanwhile, it will be a great opportunity for both Cobbs and Joseph to step up their games.
Recalling the Kevin Payton situation last season, who if I'm not mistaken, graduated in May 2009 after being declared "ineligible" that same semester, Nolen may have an issue with incompletes/credits. So the comments regarding "get to class" or "why don't you get your
work done over the break" are moot.
Instructors have one year to accept work to make up an incomplete and many create a more stringent requirement for those students in an effort to be fair to students who completed the coursework on time. Not too many professors I've dealt with are too jazzed with using their holiday break time for this purpose and they are not required to do so. As a person who has actually worked with college undergraduates (most of them NOT athletes), given the constraints on student-athletes regarding the revamped academic eligibility rules, it precludes them from the advantages that the "I" grade provides for the non-athlete student for that reason alone.
Students are required to maintain a minimum amount of credits per semester to be considered "full-time" and in the non-athletic world that means most students take 15-18 credits as a cushion. To drop a class or take an "I" does not have an impact on that student's full-time status or adequate progress towards graduation (on paper).
Many student-athletes (and other first-generation college students) do not have the organizational skills to successfully handle that credit load. Unfortunately, the practice used by most athletic advising offices is for those student-athletes to carry the minimum credit load of 12 (three 4 credit classes, four 3 credit classes -not common- or some combo that equals 13). This does not leave a lot of room for error or mistakes. One bad semester, if properly timed (in this case, Spring for basketball) won't hurt you since you can complete the "I" or take another course over the summer. However, if this happens with a 12 credit course load in the Fall semester, it's the kiss of death (especially if the Fall semester is preceded by a "catch up" summer).
Now I'm not close enough to the Nolen situation to know what is going on with him, but as a person who has had experience assisting both types of students (athletes and non-athletes) with these issues, I think that both Tubby and the Academic advising office bear greater responsibility for this situation than the average fan thinks. Ultimately, the brunt of the responsibility falls on Nolen, but as I've learned working with first-generation college students, they don't always know when or how to ask for the type of academic assistance they need. If you know a student-athlete is "struggling," a more hands on approach is required. Without knowing more about the situation, I cannot offer solutions and that would a 20/20 hindsight scenario anyway.
The University has always had a suspect academic advising crew because they base their hires on cronyism and academic record, not actual effectiveness and concrete advising skills. This is why the Minnesota has one of the lowest graduation rates in the Big Ten. Other institutions are doing a much better job.
Hope that Nolen works it out and is back on the court soon. Meanwhile, it will be a great opportunity for both Cobbs and Joseph to step up their games.
as BayFieldGopher pointed out the other day--what the heck was Nolen doing playing at Indiana--or any of the last few games if his studies were that far behind. I know we dont know all the info but shouldnt Tubby have firmly placed his butt in study hall instead of the recent road trip or even the recent home games? Tighten it up Tubby.
From the fact that they are appealing this, I take it that this was not something that could simply be 'completed' with a bit of extra work. Perhaps he completely failed multiple classes, etc. beyond what could be salvaged by extra work between semesters? In that case, there was nothing to be gained by sitting him earlier then necessary.
TheHofferette
Member
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2008
- Messages
- 871
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 16
Drex96, what a lot of interesting insight into student-athlete academics...I have never really thought about it too much before. it certainly does seem that the coaching staff should be much more aware of all academic situations and attempt to corral a bad situation before the NCAA has to step in. it is hard to blame an 18-22 year old solely for an academic "situation", especially given how much there is going on in a student-athlete's life. this is what adults/mentors/coaches are for and why they are not working in the NBA...student-athletes are part of the NCAA job description.
Friend Of Tubby
Banned
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2008
- Messages
- 7,841
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 36
Recalling the Kevin Payton situation last season, who if I'm not mistaken, graduated in May 2009 after being declared "ineligible" that same semester, Nolen may have an issue with incompletes/credits. So the comments regarding "get to class" or "why don't you get your
work done over the break" are moot.
Instructors have one year to accept work to make up an incomplete and many create a more stringent requirement for those students in an effort to be fair to students who completed the coursework on time. Not too many professors I've dealt with are too jazzed with using their holiday break time for this purpose and they are not required to do so. As a person who has actually worked with college undergraduates (most of them NOT athletes), given the constraints on student-athletes regarding the revamped academic eligibility rules, it precludes them from the advantages that the "I" grade provides for the non-athlete student for that reason alone.
Students are required to maintain a minimum amount of credits per semester to be considered "full-time" and in the non-athletic world that means most students take 15-18 credits as a cushion. To drop a class or take an "I" does not have an impact on that student's full-time status or adequate progress towards graduation (on paper).
Many student-athletes (and other first-generation college students) do not have the organizational skills to successfully handle that credit load. Unfortunately, the practice used by most athletic advising offices is for those student-athletes to carry the minimum credit load of 12 (three 4 credit classes, four 3 credit classes -not common- or some combo that equals 13). This does not leave a lot of room for error or mistakes. One bad semester, if properly timed (in this case, Spring for basketball) won't hurt you since you can complete the "I" or take another course over the summer. However, if this happens with a 12 credit course load in the Fall semester, it's the kiss of death (especially if the Fall semester is preceded by a "catch up" summer).
Now I'm not close enough to the Nolen situation to know what is going on with him, but as a person who has had experience assisting both types of students (athletes and non-athletes) with these issues, I think that both Tubby and the Academic advising office bear greater responsibility for this situation than the average fan thinks. Ultimately, the brunt of the responsibility falls on Nolen, but as I've learned working with first-generation college students, they don't always know when or how to ask for the type of academic assistance they need. If you know a student-athlete is "struggling," a more hands on approach is required. Without knowing more about the situation, I cannot offer solutions and that would a 20/20 hindsight scenario anyway.
The University has always had a suspect academic advising crew because they base their hires on cronyism and academic record, not actual effectiveness and concrete advising skills. This is why the Minnesota has one of the lowest graduation rates in the Big Ten. Other institutions are doing a much better job.
Hope that Nolen works it out and is back on the court soon. Meanwhile, it will be a great opportunity for both Cobbs and Joseph to step up their games.
Player bears primary responsibility for eligibility. He (or she) must do the work to stay eligible.
Team academic advisor bears secondary responsibility. He (or she) must keep players and coach aware of eligibility status and work to be done.
Coaching staff bears least responsibility. Their job is primarily to COACH the players.
SelectionSunday
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2008
- Messages
- 24,714
- Reaction score
- 4,870
- Points
- 113
Usually in cases like this, someone (in addition to the student-athlete) will pay a steep price for what has occurred. There's just too much money involved in big-time college basketball and football. I don't think it's fair, the responsibility should fall mostly on the kid, but someone (other than Al) will ultimately take the brunt of the blame. Big-time athletics is a cut-throat, bottom line business.
Response to Friend of Tubby
Respectfully I'd like to respond to your comment.
The Head Coach and coaching staff bears a great responsibility to the student athlete. If you have played at the D1 level or if you have been associated with the D1 level then you know the rigourous schedule of practices, meetings, and travel, coupled with classes and study time.
Your defense of the coach Smith's level of responsibility makes me think that maybe you don't understand college athletics. Either that or you are just defending Coach Smith no matter the case.
A coaching staff is suppose to moniter a student athlete's classes and academic activity. Furthermore, the coaching staff should be there to supply guidance and help,(team study halls, tutoring, etc..). Something broke down here. The athlete's time and resources outside of class are dictated by the coach. I remind you, this is D1 Men's Basketball.
I'm not saying the student does not bear the main responsibility, of course he/she does. What I am saying is that because of the demands placed on the student athlete, checks and resources should be in place to help them.
Respectfully I'd like to respond to your comment.
The Head Coach and coaching staff bears a great responsibility to the student athlete. If you have played at the D1 level or if you have been associated with the D1 level then you know the rigourous schedule of practices, meetings, and travel, coupled with classes and study time.
Your defense of the coach Smith's level of responsibility makes me think that maybe you don't understand college athletics. Either that or you are just defending Coach Smith no matter the case.
A coaching staff is suppose to moniter a student athlete's classes and academic activity. Furthermore, the coaching staff should be there to supply guidance and help,(team study halls, tutoring, etc..). Something broke down here. The athlete's time and resources outside of class are dictated by the coach. I remind you, this is D1 Men's Basketball.
I'm not saying the student does not bear the main responsibility, of course he/she does. What I am saying is that because of the demands placed on the student athlete, checks and resources should be in place to help them.
FOT no friend of Tubby
+1
Respectfully I'd like to respond to your comment.
The Head Coach and coaching staff bears a great responsibility to the student athlete. If you have played at the D1 level or if you have been associated with the D1 level then you know the rigourous schedule of practices, meetings, and travel, coupled with classes and study time.
Your defense of the coach Smith's level of responsibility makes me think that maybe you don't understand college athletics. Either that or you are just defending Coach Smith no matter the case.
A coaching staff is suppose to moniter a student athlete's classes and academic activity. Furthermore, the coaching staff should be there to supply guidance and help,(team study halls, tutoring, etc..). Something broke down here. The athlete's time and resources outside of class are dictated by the coach. I remind you, this is D1 Men's Basketball.
I'm not saying the student does not bear the main responsibility, of course he/she does. What I am saying is that because of the demands placed on the student athlete, checks and resources should be in place to help them.
+1
Great post, Drex. I suspect the disaster w/Clem complicates. This means that the academic advising done requires transparency and the oversight cannot be done by the athletic department.
I have been mentoring a brilliant college student (ACT 35 in English)w/ a mess of a family background and it amazes me the problems she got into with no one advocating and advising beyond the institution.
I have been mentoring a brilliant college student (ACT 35 in English)w/ a mess of a family background and it amazes me the problems she got into with no one advocating and advising beyond the institution.
Great post, Drex. I suspect the disaster w/Clem complicates. This means that the academic advising done requires transparency and the oversight cannot be done by the athletic department.
I have been mentoring a brilliant college student (ACT 35 in English)w/ a mess of a family background and it amazes me the problems she got into with no one advocating and advising beyond the institution.
Thanks Moonlight--seen a lot of students like the one you described.
The transparency issue doesn't preclude the coaching staff from getting progress reports and making recommendations to the advising staff. People forget that Gangelhoff was an administrative assistant, not an academic advisor. Much of that mess was the result of implied complacency, not academic advising.
TheHofferette
Member
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2008
- Messages
- 871
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 16
I have often wondered if our University has extra checks and balances regarding our student-athletes because of the Gangelhoff scandal...anyone know if the U has different policies than other institutions??