Was Michael Dyer down?

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What is that blogger talking about with this "both or neither" nonsense? They are not the same. The pictures clearly show that the palm of Dyer's hand was the only part to touch the ground. In the case of the Arkansas player, the back of his wrist, above the hand, is the part that's touching. Dyer was absolutely not down, and I would actually disagree with the official's assessment of the Arkansas player being down, but there is an easy and clear distinction between the two.
 


To me they are different plays. Dyer is on his hand while Williams is on his wrist. The rule states that the hand is allowed but the wrist isn't. That is what makes the plays different.
 

I dunno. Looks to me like Arkansas is on his wrist moreso than Oregon... If
you wanna argue palmar vs dorsal aspect of the hand maybe a distinction can be made.
 


VACTERL said:
I dunno. Looks to me like Arkansas is on his wrist moreso than Oregon... If
you wanna argue palmar vs dorsal aspect of the hand maybe a distinction can be made.
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I think that is a worthy distinction, although the rule book doesn't seem to be clear on whether that distinction should be made. Personally I think palm or fist should be fine but the top of the hand should be down.
 

grunkiejr said:
To me they are different plays. Dyer is on his hand while Williams is on his wrist. The rule states that the hand is allowed but the wrist isn't. That is what makes the plays different.
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Actually in the picture, Dyer is technically more on his wrist than Williams. The carpals (i.e. wrist bones) and metacarpals articulate and Dyer is supporting his body with both. Williams on the other hand (no pun intended) appears to be touching the ground with only his metacarpals; at least in the still shot.
 

Anyone actually know what the NCAA rule is on being down? I had always thought you were down when 3 or more points of contact touch the ground (2 feet and 1 hand) or you could also be down by contact. I haven't watched the play for a couple of days but it looked to me that Dyer had 3 points of contact touching the ground and in addition to this he was also on top of the defender who was laying on the ground. I think he pretty much just rolled over the defender and kept going. I have never seen anyone called down with 3 points of contact before but it might be in the rule book but just never called. I would have called him down because he used the defender to keep himself up but it happened pretty fast so I might have missed it too.
 

CentralGopher said:
Anyone actually know what the NCAA rule is on being down? I had always thought you were down when 3 or more points of contact touch the ground (2 feet and 1 hand) or you could also be down by contact. I haven't watched the play for a couple of days but it looked to me that Dyer had 3 points of contact touching the ground and in addition to this he was also on top of the defender who was laying on the ground. I think he pretty much just rolled over the defender and kept going. I have never seen anyone called down with 3 points of contact before but it might be in the rule book but just never called. I would have called him down because he used the defender to keep himself up but it happened pretty fast so I might have missed it too.
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Is John Madden a holer? He is very good at clearly explaining which body parts equal other body parts in order to be considered down.
 



CentralGopher said:
Anyone actually know what the NCAA rule is on being down? I had always thought you were down when 3 or more points of contact touch the ground (2 feet and 1 hand) or you could also be down by contact. I haven't watched the play for a couple of days but it looked to me that Dyer had 3 points of contact touching the ground and in addition to this he was also on top of the defender who was laying on the ground. I think he pretty much just rolled over the defender and kept going. I have never seen anyone called down with 3 points of contact before but it might be in the rule book but just never called. I would have called him down because he used the defender to keep himself up but it happened pretty fast so I might have missed it too.
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I don't know for sure what the explicit rule is, but you are definitely not down when both feet and one hand are on the ground.
 

I had thought that if you used a body part other than your feet to keep you up(hand?) you were down by rule although it has to my knowledge never been called. Seems logical to me since you are supposed to run not crawl and you generally start with a hand down if you play on the line. Also seems knit picky so that might be why it has never been called. Anyone know about being down by contact?
 

You are down if any part of your body other than feet of hand touch the ground.

ARTICLE 3. A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle
or declare it dead:

b. When any part of the ball carrier’s body, except his hand or foot, touches
the ground or when the ball carrier is tackled or otherwise falls and loses
possession of the ball as he contacts the ground with any part of his
body, except his hand or foot.
 

I think it is splitting hairs with the hand/wrist thing but he clearly used the defender lying on the ground to keep himself up. Both of Dyer's feet were off the ground while he was on top of the defender and had it not been for the defender he would have landed on the ground so I would say he should have been down by contact but apparently they did not interpret the rule that way.
 



CentralGopher said:
I think it is splitting hairs with the hand/wrist thing but he clearly used the defender lying on the ground to keep himself up. Both of Dyer's feet were off the ground while he was on top of the defender and had it not been for the defender he would have landed on the ground so I would say he should have been down by contact but apparently they did not interpret the rule that way.
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There is no such thing as down by contact in NCAA. That is the NFL. In NCAA some body part other than hand or foot has to touch ground. It is the same in NFL except the runner must be touched by the defense.
 

I believe that the play was called correctly as the rules are written but consider this: If, while Dyer was on top of the Oregon player, the nearest Oregon player (who pulls up on the play) dives in and gives Dyer a shot would a personal foul have been called for a late hit? My guess is yes or at least maybe. Creates a tough situation for rules committees and officials.
 

Oregon fans claim he was down, but what if an Oregon guy blasted him out of nowhere and Dyer fumbles for a scoop-n-score. Then Auburn fans would claim he was down. All about perspective
 

So if he had been blasted by some guy when he was getting up should a late hit been called? The rules need to clear this call up, because I believe in many games he would be called down because the other player was supporting him, his legs and arn were no more supporting him for most of that play than were any of ours. It is obvious the kid thought he was down, they should have called the whistle becasue he quit running. There are lots of plays wher e a running back runs into a pile and never hits the ground because he is laying on offensive and defensive linemen. Should the other team have to unpile and rub him around on the ground for it to be a tackle?
 

I don't know if Dyer was down, but this guy is:
officerdown.jpg
 


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