Vikings Stadium

[Central Valley Bowties]

So the news has reported a Vikings Stadium deal is being pushed before the state legislative session ends in May.

Where I like the Vikings....I love the Gophers. I hope a stadium deal gets pushed thru for the Vikings as I think they are good for the state but do feel the if they Vikings leave Gopher football benefit with more fan interest across the state.

Thoughts on if/when this gets pushed thru?

 

[parkinglotgopher]

The Gophers and the Twins got their stadium deals in the nick of time. Considering the economic climate of the past two years and the pace of the current recovery, coupled with Minnesota's own debt issues, I can't imagine the allocation of public funds to build a profit-turning machine for a billionaire.

 

[Brew_recruit]

The Gophers and the Twins got their stadium deals in the nick of time. Considering the economic climate of the past two years and the pace of the current recovery, coupled with Minnesota's own debt issues, I can't imagine the allocation of public funds to build a profit-turning machine for a billionaire.

only people who don't understand economics think that a vikings stadium only benefits Wilf.

 

[streetfighter]

The Gophers and the Twins got their stadium deals in the nick of time. Considering the economic climate of the past two years and the pace of the current recovery, coupled with Minnesota's own debt issues, I can't imagine the allocation of public funds to build a profit-turning machine for a billionaire.

This.

It will be an atrocious mistake if public funds are allocated for a stadium at this point. Minnesota faces a budget deficit of about $1b this bienium and nearly $6b (projected) for the 2012-13 bienium. That doesn't sound conducive to a new stadium.

 

[streetfighter]

only people who don't understand economics think that a vikings stadium only benefits Wilf.

1) He never said that it only benefits Wilf
2) Nothing about PLG's statement was inaccurate. Wilf IS a billionaire, and a new stadium = a profit turning machine.

 

[GophBen]

only people who don't understand economics think that a vikings stadium only benefits Wilf.

A football-only stadium has little to no impact on a municipality. However, the potential of jobs created right now might be enticing to the schmucks in St. Paul.

 

[Brew_recruit]

A football-only stadium has little to no impact on a municipality. However, the potential of jobs created right now might be enticing to the schmucks in St. Paul.

so it will have little impact on our city? Check your vocab please. Plus you don't know what you are talking about because Zygi never said it would be a football only stadium.

 

[GophBen]

so it will have little impact on our city? Check your vocab please. Plus you don't know what you are talking about because Zygi never said it would be a football only stadium.

You're absolutely right. I always tend to post things I know nothing about. And you're right that it wouldn't be football-only. The monster truck rallies would be vital to Twin Cities.

Since I don't know anything, let me ask you something. How much new money would exist if the Vikings build the stadium? And what would happen if the stadium did not get built and the team moves to Kuala Lumpur? Would money currently spent by Minnesotans on the Vikings evaporate?

 

[FireCosgroveGuy]

A stadium would put about 3,000 people back to work right now, so that impact to people can't be understated.

No general fund money will be used, so please stop crying about that and the deficit. It will almost exclusively be things like Vikings lottery game, ticket tax, memorabilia tax (jerseys, hats, etc), etc.

People sure do hate TCF and Target Field..............

The team paid $18M in taxes in 2008 and over their life has paid a huge amount more than that. So if they leave you automatically lose $18M in taxes paid from the organization.

 

[Handsome Pete]

, I can't imagine the allocation of public funds to build a profit-turning machine for a billionaire.

What a completely idiotic statement. What the hell does building a stadium for the state of Minnesota have to do with "a profit-turning machine for a billionaire"? It is this type of whiny, inferiority-complex drivel that keeps the rest of us from making progress.

By the same ridiculous logic, why should we have a new football stadium for a bunch of STUDENT athletes who shouldn't care where they play?

This moron thinks it is a great idea to turn down a Vikings stadium so we can pay 2 or 3 times as much in five years to lure an NFL team back when the Vikings move to Los Angeles. Give me a break.

 

[GophersInIowa]

You're absolutely right. I always tend to post things I know nothing about. And you're right that it wouldn't be football-only. The monster truck rallies would be vital to Twin Cities.

Yeah, who wants events like Super Bowls and Final Fours?? They do nothing for the economy.

 

[GopherVotary]

Zig will build it himself. He's quite a guy.

 

[loki]

I may be the only guy who wishes the Vikings would just go away. I'm sick of pro basketball and Football because all it has become is "thug life." I still have season tickets for Gopher football but I'm starting to become somewhat disinterested in college football and basketball as well for the same reasons. There are just too many players that are not good people. In regards to helping the economy if I don't spend my money on football I will spend it on something else so in general I would call it draw at best. I figure its the same for other people.

 

[GophBen]

Eh

Yeah, who wants events like Super Bowls and Final Fours?? They do nothing for the economy.

I'm sorry. I should work on my hyperbole. A Final Four is a reasonable expectation if it's indoors. A Super Bowl, however, is not. The NFL seems to be edging closer and closer to keeping it in warm climates to enable more activities during Super Bowl week.

And just to play nice, I went and figured what the Jock Tax benefit is for an NFL team. Assuming we've got comparable tax levels and Indiana for this subject, revenue collected from visiting teams is roughly a $500,000 a year.

 

[ust4life]

...I can't imagine the allocation of public funds to build a profit-turning machine for a billionaire.

It's comments like these, made by completely ignorant people, that are the exact reason why the Vikings won't get a stadium. For some reason, we never heard a thing about the $14MM of state money used to renovate Orchestra Hall, did we? How much money does Orchestra Hall make for the state? You never heard one complaint from the artsy fartsy's about that, did you? Bring up using public money (which will mostly come in the form of a "use tax" - additional ticket fees, lottery games, merchandise tax, etc.) for a Vikings stadium and you'd think the world was ending. People need to wake up and smell the roses. Factoring in the tax paid by the Vikings alone last year, that's $18MM in funding for the state that we'd be losing. Not only that, but think about all of the bars/restaurants/parking lots that benefit from these events? Been down to a Twins game yet? In the 8 years I've lived in the cities, I've NEVER seen 1st Ave hopping on a week night at 5pm as it is with the new stadium. Think of all the cash going to the state from those establishments.

Wake up and smell the roses...the sooner, the better.

 

[Rotundo]

When the state spent money on orchestra hall did somebody get rich? Zygi's net worth will increase by hundreds of millions the second the stadium is built over and above his contribution. The stadium will provide a place where the business he owns will be able to generate more revenue than the stadium where his business currently plays.

The stadium is about Zygi making more money. Don't kid yourself. He has made a couple hundred million owning the Vikings so far but he wants to make much more. That is his right but is it our duty to help him do this? No.

The vikings have no where to go. They have no real leverage. They say they won't renew the lease after 2011. OK. Where will they playin 2012? There is no other option.

All businesses have employees who pay income tax. Should they all be able to divert their income tax payments and use them to build new offices, plants, etc?

 

[Brew_recruit]

You're absolutely right. I always tend to post things I know nothing about. And you're right that it wouldn't be football-only. The monster truck rallies would be vital to Twin Cities.

Since I don't know anything, let me ask you something. How much new money would exist if the Vikings build the stadium? And what would happen if the stadium did not get built and the team moves to Kuala Lumpur? Would money currently spent by Minnesotans on the Vikings evaporate?

check old stories, the stadium would be an entrainment center

 

[1983]

I will

laugh like hell when the northern Minnesota communist party folks run the Vikes out of town. We should then sell northern Minnesota to North Dakota to get a new team.

 

[mplsbadger]

so we can pay 2 or 3 times as much in five years to lure an NFL team back when the Vikings move to Los Angeles. Give me a break.

This is the best reason to do it. Set aside idealism for a moment and be pragmatic. If the Vikings leave we will get another team. This is not LA. The twin cities rival Green Bay every year as the NFL markets drawing the greatest local share. The new team will be just like the old one except the stadium will cost more, the team will win less, and the tradition will be gone forever. Think Lakers/Timberwolves. Given all of this I'm not willing to call Zygi's bluff.

 

[Brew_recruit]

This is the best reason to do it. Set aside idealism for a moment and be pragmatic. If the Vikings leave we will get another team. This is not LA. The twin cities rival Green Bay every year as the NFL markets drawing the greatest local share. The new team will be just like the old one except the stadium will cost more, the team will win less, and the tradition will be gone forever. Think Lakers/Timberwolves. Given all of this I'm not willing to call Zygi's bluff.

your right, because no teams have ever left this area before....

 

[streetfighter]

laugh like hell when the northern Minnesota communist party folks run the Vikes out of town. We should then sell northern Minnesota to North Dakota to get a new team.

A+ point. Thanks for bringing something intelligent to the conversation...

 

[mnboiler]

Lets not kid ourselves the Vikings need a new stadium sooner rather than later. Most of thier designs they have been really nice but the most recent ones have Teflon roof. Wait, that sounds familiar, isn't that what the Metrodome roof is made out of. So let me get this right Viking, Gophers, and Twins fans have suffered for years under a white puffy sky. Now that two team to get out of it now the only team left to escape wants a NEW Metrodome. Am I missing something here. The Metrodome is terrible and NOW you want to build a new Metrodome. I feel like Lewis Black here. Some people are just stupid.

You don't believe me check out the 6th paragraph in this blog.
http://www.savethevikes.org/2009/12/22/metrodome-next-great-vision-or-pipe-dream/

Those photos look familiar too.

 

[GoAUpher]

The economic benefit arguments for taxpayers don't add up or pan out over the long haul. This has been proven time and again with other stadiums. Even with Final Fours and the occasional (at best) Super Bowl, this is a new building that will go unused most of the year. There are already too many arenas fighting for the non-sports related concerts and events. Building a new Vikes stadium won't increase the number of these events. If anything, all it means is that an event that used to be held somewhere happens at the new stadium. However, building new stadiums do offer short term economic benefits. In this case, it would be a boon to the construction sector at a time when that area of industry is still hurting.

None of this means that the stadium isn't worth building. The same is true of Target Field/TCF and I think that both were good decisions. They both put their teams back where they belonged and in their own stadium. And both will revitalize there respective areas (campus and Warehouse District) in their own ways. The best reason for either was not economic (outside of the benefit to the Twins/Gophers). So lets not pretend anything will be different with a new Vikes arena.

In the end, the one enjoying the best economic benefits will be Wilf. People can deny this all they want but its true. A new stadium skyrockets the value of the franchise. Nothing wrong with that. But there is no need to push this idea aside.

The only worthwhile argument for building a new Vikings stadium is the same one used by supporters of the new Guthrie or Orchestra Hall. Keeping the team in the state is a quality of life issue. People can disagree about whether the Vikes are worth it or not (just like folks will disagree if the artsy fartsy stuff is worth it). But in the end this is a choice to partially subsidize a form of entertainment because it is an asset to the people of Minnesota.

Personally, I don't care one way or the other because I don't believe the Vikes have the leverage to move. The NFL has a good product here with a loyal fanbase, strong history, great rivalries, and solid revenue stream (that is currently hamstrung by the Dome). A stadium will eventually get built. I just don't see them being shortsighted and moving the team out of a strong market when in the end this will happen.

How the pay for it means something. General fund money should be a no-no. "Use taxes" seems promising but the proof is in the pudding (i.e. can they raise enough money to fund the state's end w/o dipping into other sources of revenue).

 

[AhliBobwa]

The economic benefit arguments for taxpayers don't add up or pan out over the long haul. This has been proven time and again with other stadiums. Even with Final Fours and the occasional (at best) Super Bowl, this is a new building that will go unused most of the year. .

Target Field and The Bank were approved in a drastically different economic climate from the one that currently exists. Social services are being slashed across the board all over Minnesota. Hospitals don't have the resources they need, schools are cutting programs that are vital to kids, and unless things get better this is just the tip of the iceberg.

It is completely irresponsible to allocate significant public funds for a new stadium when hospitals, schools, etc., are experiencing devastating budget cuts. Period.

The fact that Wilf/some members of the legislature are pushing for this right now just shows how out of touch they really are.


Does anyone know if there is currently an organized effort opposing public funding for a new stadium?

 

[awag777]

Target Field and The Bank were approved in a drastically different economic climate from the one that currently exists. Social services are being slashed across the board all over Minnesota. Hospitals don't have the resources they need, schools are cutting programs that are vital to kids, and unless things get better this is just the tip of the iceberg.

It is completely irresponsible to allocate significant public funds for a new stadium when hospitals, schools, etc., are experiencing devastating budget cuts. Period.

The fact that Wilf/members of the legislature are pushing for this right now just shows how out of touch they really are.


Does anyone know if there is currently an organized effort opposing public funding for a new stadium?

You're a moron if you think a majority of Minnesotans don't want to keep the Vikings in Minnesota.

And your argument about slashing social services, schools, etc. is obviously a good one, if it were at all relevant. This is not a matter of taking money out of one pocket and putting it in another. It's not like we're going to cut social services, entitlements, etc. and use the money saved for the stadium. Absolutely fallacious argument. NOT building a stadium will not stop those cuts from happening, I guarantee you.

 

[forestlaker]

Education, Health and Human Services take up 70% of the State Budget. How much do you want to set aside for them? Do you think Education will ever say "You've given us enough?"

 

[GoGophers2005]

Construction jobs, construction jobs, construction jobs.
Does anyone against this stadium realize the total lack of construction cranes in the Twin Cities area? I am in the architecture field and although a Vikings stadium will be barely felt in my line of work it will be huge in general construction, mechanical, electrical which are really getting hit hard in this recession. The economy will not be righting itself in this country until we get building things once again.

In saying that, I think we need to throw out the 'what the Vikings bring to the State of Minnesota talk in terms of $$'. It's a debate that nobody is going to win. I will say that if the Vikings really were a cash cow Hennepin County would have hitched their wagon with the Vikings instead of with the Twins. Twins=80 home games....Vikings=10

In saying that, look at all the nice architecture we have helped build in the past 10 years. Guthrie, Science Museum, History Center, Convention Center addition, TCF, Target Field, Xcel Energy Center, Mpls Library, Light Rail. Our airport is one of the nicest in the country (built on user fees not taxes). A Vikings stadium would be a nice exclamation point.

 

[wait!what?]

If the Vikes are allowed/forced to move to a new city then please alter the state consititution to ban trying to lure another team to the city by building a new 1 billion dollar stadium. See North Stars.

 

[streetfighter]

Is there somewhere online that depicts the financing package they are proposing?

 

[RodentRampage]

One big reason that I am glad the Gophers have their own stadium is because if we were still in the dome, the Gophers would again be used as a revenue source for the Vikings, and we'd be forced into the new Vikings stadium for decades more.

That being said, if the Vikings to move, there will be another team here. Many of the people opposed to building a new stadium would then shake their fists and demand "why did you let the Vikings leave?" We'll just wind up spending even more for a stadium to entice a team to move here than we would if we built a new Vikings stadium.

Maybe the NFL should expand by a few more cities so that there is no longer a credible threat of moving to another city.