http://m.thepostgame.com/blog/road-...um-students-business-tv-ncaa-michigan-tickets
Props to Justin Gaard for Tweeting this, but it's a good read and touted as "lesson to all other programs"... see we aren't the only ones to have student attendance issues, etc.
Here is what we were all saying about this story:
[h=2]
[/h]
It really is quite simple. Tickets are not selling as well for a number of reasons:
1. The coach and the team lose too many games.
2. The coach and the team no longer really compete with the Ohio State.
3. Michigan State has surpassed Michigan within their own state.
4. The Football Program at Michigan is NOT the program of old. By losing as much as they now do,
the Michigan Mystique has lost it's luster.
It will take winning a Big Ten Championship and it will take defeating MSU AND the OSU a number of times before they will
feel that loving feeling for their corn/blues in Ann Arbor.
The students are always the first to bail...
wren has to give
The KILL STAFF SYSTEM
his total support...
And when needed
an honest contrast or two
just to keep this board an honest board...
; 0 )
Reply With Quote
06-08-2014, 12:24 AM
#5
bemidjigopher
Senior Member
<DL class=userstats><DT>Join Date <DD>Nov 2011 </DD><DT>Posts <DD>1,782 </DD></DL>
[h=2]
[/h]
Originally Posted by
imthewalrus 
It really is quite simple. Tickets are not selling as well for a number of reasons:
1. The coach and the team lose too many games.
2. The coach and the team no longer really compete with the Ohio State.
3. Michigan State has surpassed Michigan within their own state.
4. The Football Program at Michigan is NOT the program of old. By losing as much as they now do,
the Michigan Mystique has lost it's luster.
It will take winning a Big Ten Championship and it will take defeating MSU AND the OSU a number of times before they will
feel that loving feeling for their corn/blues in Ann Arbor.
The students are always the first to bail...
Pretty much nailed it on the head
Reply With Quote
06-08-2014, 06:05 AM
#6
hungan1
Senior Member
<DL class=userstats><DT>Join Date <DD>Jan 2011 </DD><DT>Posts <DD>748 </DD></DL>
[h=2]
[/h]
And the Gophers Football program shall rise...
Reply With Quote
06-08-2014, 07:22 AM
#7
imthewalrus
Senior Member
<DL class=userstats><DT>Join Date <DD>Jul 2010 </DD><DT>Posts <DD>1,988 </DD></DL>
[h=2]
In 1953, MSU entered the Big Ten and was a National Championship level elete squad.[/h]
Originally Posted by
hungan1
And the Gophers Football program shall rise...
MSU, coached by Minnesota All-American Clarence Biggie Munn had gone undefeated in 1951 and 1952 and had won National Championships both seasons. They entered the Big Ten in 1953 and tied for the conference championship with Illinois that year. It was clear that MSU was the state of Michigan's team during that 28 game winning streak Munn led the Spartans on. In 1954, MSU was still great. Munn became AD. He promoted Duffy Daugherty to head coach. On his staff were Dan Devine (Missouri and Notre Dame) and Bob Devaney( Nebraska) and Bill Yeoman (University of Houston for over 20 years.) MSU made it tough for Michigan to be Michigan. So did THE OSU who remained very strong to great during the 1950's and early 1960's.
Michigan suffered a very down period for them through out the 1950's and through the early 1960's until Bo Schembeckler took over as the Coach at Michigan. From the mid 1960's through the 70's Michigan regained their place atop the Big Ten Conference in a mighty struggle between the Schembeckler led Corn/Blues and The Ohio State Buckeyes, led by Schembeckler's mentor from earlier coaching experience days and playing days at the University of Miama, Ohio, Woody Hayes.
Right now, MSU has managed to reverse the trend in Michigan again. The Corn/blues have been challenged within the state of Michigan pretty much coinciding with the end of the Lloyd Carr Era. Carr, ironically won a National Championship at Michigan. Schembeckler never did. Yet, most would credit Schembeckler with being MR. MICHIGAN.
Since bringing in Rich Rod as coach, the plight of the Corn/Blues has been a very uncharacteristic period of down hill sledding for the University of Michigan Football Program. MSU has been on an upward trajectory during that same time. Is Brady Hoak the right guy to reverse the downward spiral at Michigan? Time will tell. However, Michigan has entered a very dangerous time for them. IF the role reversal with MSU continues for another five years, while the 113,000 "faithful" Game Day Saturday patrons of the Big House slip away as season ticket buyers and the "product" fails to offer Michigan a fans a chance to be a part of something SPECIAL just by scoring a ticket to the Big House, perhaps the Michigan Program will struggle for a dozen years or until their new...their next SCHEMBECKLER can be found and can be convinced to revive the Corn/Blue tradition. Right now Michigan is suffering from the "we aren't as special as we used to be" blues. There is culture shock going on in Ann Arbor surrounding their football program. They don't even belong on the same field as THE Ohio State Buckeyes right now. And, even worse MSU has surpassed them and continues to be stronger in the very near term outlook.
We, in Minnesota have observed this during the 1950's and early 1960's It DID present Minnesota, and Wisconsin and even iowa a chance to really make some noise in the Big Ten Conference back in the very late 1950's and the very early 1960's. The four strongest teams in the conference for a few years were iowa, wisky, Minnesota and THE Ohio State.
But, my Golden Gophers will NEED to beat their border battle foes, iowa and wisky. And, my Gophers will NEED to show up in Ann Arbor and beat the Corn/Blues in their Big House...and then back in TCF BANK STADIUM to make the kind of run Murray managed to make in the very early 1960's. The odds are long...but...could be possible IF Coach Kill and his staff can find ways to beat the stinking badger, show up for a game in the BIG HOUSE and win it and also beat iowa.
It is a tall order, but, IF MSU and THE OSU can help keep Michigan down for a while, there will be room for my Golden Gopher Football Program to make up some lost ground. But they WILL need to bring the Jug, the Axe and the PIG back to Minneapolis with much more frequency than they have been doing during the Kill Era to even have a prayer.
For the U of M owning the Pig, the Axe and the Jug all at the same time would spark a revival of GOOD TIMES for Football at the University of Minnesota! The record books show us this. A strong MSU and a strong Ohio State are also a part of the equation. Will the stars align?
Beat the stinking badger. Return Floyd to Minneapolis and for God's sake: bring the JUG back home!
<!-- edit note -->
Last edited by imthewalrus; 06-08-2014 at 07:29 AM.
<!-- / edit note -->
wren has to give
The KILL STAFF SYSTEM
his total support...
And when needed
an honest contrast or two
just to keep this board an honest board...
; 0 )
Reply With Quote
06-08-2014, 07:37 AM
#8
SelectionSunday
Senior Member
<DL class=userstats><DT>Join Date <DD>Nov 2008 </DD><DT>Location <DD>Hebron, Illinois </DD><DT>Posts <DD>14,304 </DD></DL>
[h=2]
[/h]
Originally Posted by
imthewalrus
It really is quite simple. Tickets are not selling as well for a number of reasons:
1. The coach and the team lose too many games.
2. The coach and the team no longer really compete with the Ohio State.
3. Michigan State has surpassed Michigan within their own state.
4. The Football Program at Michigan is NOT the program of old. By losing as much as they now do,
the Michigan Mystique has lost it's luster.
It will take winning a Big Ten Championship and it will take defeating MSU AND the OSU a number of times before they will
feel that loving feeling for their corn/blues in Ann Arbor.
The students are always the first to bail...
Couldn't agree with you more, Wren. With regards to MSU, Mark Dantonio said it best after Michigan RB Mike Hart popped off with his "Little Brother" quote in 2007. Immediately after Hart's comment, Dantonio said (of Michigan), "Pride comes before the fall."
Since that time, MSU has won 5 of 6 in the rivalry, not to mention two conference titles (2010, 2013), two Legends Division titles (2011, 2013), a Rose Bowl, and a final #3 national ranking. Meanwhile, Michigan reportedly brings in highly regarded recruiting classes every year, but that recruiting isn't translating to the football field.
And yes, the students always are the first to bail.
<!-- edit note -->
Last edited by SelectionSunday; 06-08-2014 at 07:46 AM.
<!-- / edit note -->
Reply With Quote
06-08-2014, 08:04 AM
#9
Bayfieldgopher
Senior Member
<DL class=userstats><DT>Join Date <DD>Nov 2008 </DD><DT>Posts <DD>6,658 </DD></DL>
[h=2]
[/h]
Originally Posted by
imthewalrus
MSU, coached by Minnesota All-American Clarence Biggie Munn had gone undefeated in 1951 and 1952 and had won National Championships both seasons. They entered the Big Ten in 1953 and tied for the conference championship with Illinois that year. It was clear that MSU was the state of Michigan's team during that 28 game winning streak Munn led the Spartans on. In 1954, MSU was still great. Munn became AD. He promoted Duffy Daugherty to head coach. On his staff were Dan Devine (Missouri and Notre Dame) and Bob Devaney( Nebraska) and Bill Yeoman (University of Houston for over 20 years.) MSU made it tough for Michigan to be Michigan. So did THE OSU who remained very strong to great during the 1950's and early 1960's.
Michigan suffered a very down period for them through out the 1950's and through the early 1960's until Bo Schembeckler took over as the Coach at Michigan. From the mid 1960's through the 70's Michigan regained their place atop the Big Ten Conference in a mighty struggle between the Schembeckler led Corn/Blues and The Ohio State Buckeyes, led by Schembeckler's mentor from earlier coaching experience days and playing days at the University of Miama, Ohio, Woody Hayes.
Right now, MSU has managed to reverse the trend in Michigan again. The Corn/blues have been challenged within the state of Michigan pretty much coinciding with the end of the Lloyd Carr Era. Carr, ironically won a National Championship at Michigan. Schembeckler never did. Yet, most would credit Schembeckler with being MR. MICHIGAN.
Since bringing in Rich Rod as coach, the plight of the Corn/Blues has been a very uncharacteristic period of down hill sledding for the University of Michigan Football Program. MSU has been on an upward trajectory during that same time. Is Brady Hoak the right guy to reverse the downward spiral at Michigan? Time will tell. However, Michigan has entered a very dangerous time for them. IF the role reversal with MSU continues for another five years, while the 113,000 "faithful" Game Day Saturday patrons of the Big House slip away as season ticket buyers and the "product" fails to offer Michigan a fans a chance to be a part of something SPECIAL just by scoring a ticket to the Big House, perhaps the Michigan Program will struggle for a dozen years or until their new...their next SCHEMBECKLER can be found and can be convinced to revive the Corn/Blue tradition. Right now Michigan is suffering from the "we aren't as special as we used to be" blues. There is culture shock going on in Ann Arbor surrounding their football program. They don't even belong on the same field as THE Ohio State Buckeyes right now. And, even worse MSU has surpassed them and continues to be stronger in the very near term outlook.
We, in Minnesota have observed this during the 1950's and early 1960's It DID present Minnesota, and Wisconsin and even iowa a chance to really make some noise in the Big Ten Conference back in the very late 1950's and the very early 1960's. The four strongest teams in the conference for a few years were iowa, wisky, Minnesota and THE Ohio State.
But, my Golden Gophers will NEED to beat their border battle foes, iowa and wisky. And, my Gophers will NEED to show up in Ann Arbor and beat the Corn/Blues in their Big House...and then back in TCF BANK STADIUM to make the kind of run Murray managed to make in the very early 1960's. The odds are long...but...could be possible IF Coach Kill and his staff can find ways to beat the stinking badger, show up for a game in the BIG HOUSE and win it and also beat iowa.
It is a tall order, but, IF MSU and THE OSU can help keep Michigan down for a while, there will be room for my Golden Gopher Football Program to make up some lost ground. But they WILL need to bring the Jug, the Axe and the PIG back to Minneapolis with much more frequency than they have been doing during the Kill Era to even have a prayer.
For the U of M owning the Pig, the Axe and the Jug all at the same time would spark a revival of GOOD TIMES for Football at the University of Minnesota! The record books show us this. A strong MSU and a strong Ohio State are also a part of the equation. Will the stars align?
Beat the stinking badger. Return Floyd to Minneapolis and for God's sake: bring the JUG back home!
Classic! Great post Wren!! Thanks.
Reply With Quote
06-08-2014, 08:09 AM
#10
ruppertflywheel
Senior Member
<DL class=userstats><DT>Join Date <DD>Nov 2008 </DD><DT>Posts <DD>7,865 </DD><DT>Blog Entries <DD>
1 </DD></DL>
[h=2]
[/h]
Typical student: " Let's see, do I buy season football tickets, or do I buy the new multi- functional Galaxy Samsung
so I can text, Twitter, and Facebook. my life away" Student sales by in large are down all over the country. The new
self centered, self serving generation would rather spend time plastering their mugs and what ever else all over Facebook. TCF was setup for 10,000 student sales. I believe we only captured that number, or close to it the first year. You can't even get the students there with giveaways. I believe the night game with Syracuse was the only
successful giveaway promotion. I really don't know how Woody can address the situation other than flat out going
undefeated over the course of the season. Minnesota, along with Indiana and Northwestern rank among the worst
In the B1G. Don't know what the situation is with Rutgers and Maryland. As a 35 year season ticket holder it is perplexing and a rather sad state of a key element in Gopher football.
Reply With Quote
06-08-2014, 08:18 AM
#11
BJN
Senior Member
<DL class=userstats><DT>Join Date <DD>Feb 2014 </DD><DT>Posts <DD>170 </DD></DL>
[h=2]
[/h]
Brandon said, “We all think of every home Michigan football game like a miniature Super Bowl.”
I don’t know any Michigan fans who think that. Quite the opposite, they think Michigan football games are the antidote for the artificial excess of the Super Bowl.
After the 2013 Notre Dame game, Brandon said, “You’re a 17-18 year old kid watching the largest crowd in the history of college football with airplanes flying over and Beyonce introducing your halftime show? That’s a pretty powerful message about what Michigan is all about, and that’s our job to send that message.”
Is that really what Michigan is all about? Fly-overs, blaring rock music, and Beyonce? Beyonce is to Michigan football what Bo Schembechler is to — well, Beyonce. No, Michigan is all about lifelong fans who’ve been coming together for decades to leave a bit of the modern world behind – and the incessant marketing that comes with it – and share an authentic experience fueled by the passion of the team, the band and the students. That’s it.
This is spot on. Turn college sports into a business and people will treat it like one. Most are fed up at paying overpriced prices to see a corporate hack-show and the attendance figures throughout college football reflect this.
Reply With Quote
06-08-2014, 08:36 AM
#12
Pompous Elitist
Senior Member
<DL class=userstats><DT>Join Date <DD>Aug 2013 </DD><DT>Location <DD>Southern California </DD><DT>Posts <DD>346 </DD></DL>
[h=2]
[/h]
Originally Posted by
Unregistered User
I employ a similar mantra at work:
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Software development...
Reply With Quote
06-08-2014, 08:44 AM
#13
Pompous Elitist
Senior Member
<DL class=userstats><DT>Join Date <DD>Aug 2013 </DD><DT>Location <DD>Southern California </DD><DT>Posts <DD>346 </DD></DL>
[h=2]
[/h]
"I’ve come to believe it’s not scandal that will bring down college athletics, but greed. How long can these numbers, fueled by increasingly unhappy fans, continue to skyrocket before they come crashing down to earth"
That was an excellent article. The author makes many good points. If you haven't read it, please do.
Not to hijack the thread, but the quote above is the heart of the matter. Make the experience special (and relatively cheap!), field a competitive team, and make the players stories and their development accessible to the fans.
The push to professionalize the sport along with the gross greed of many administrators, coaches, and players is what will destroy the sport. Many of us are disillusioned with the fake drama and lazy players of the NFL. The last thing we want is THAT to happen to college football.
<!-- edit note -->
Last edited by Pompous Elitist; 06-08-2014 at 09:11 AM.
<!-- / edit note -->
Reply With Quote
06-08-2014, 08:45 AM
#14
MNGoldenGophers1
Go4 Homer
<DL class=userstats><DT>Join Date <DD>Sep 2009 </DD><DT>Location <DD>Gold Country </DD><DT>Posts <DD>1,543 </DD></DL>
[h=2]
[/h]
The consensus of most everyone seems to be that winning will cure all woes. Although I don't disagree that winning is key, I think the article suggests that consistently winning big is the only way you'll keep fans if you treat them like crap. I think I read in SI years ago an article about the Washington Nationals move from the old to new stadium. The person who wrote it described it like your old vs. new friends. Your old friend (stadium) never asked for much. In other words, you could park for a couple of bucks, buy cheap seats at just about any game, and buy a healthy lunch (beer and dog) for a few bucks and you didn't mind much if he won or lost. The new friend on the other hand is always hitting you for more money. Monthly rent like parking, next-to-non-existent cheap seats, weekly grocery store receipts for a beer and brat, etc. I think this corporate culture to extract every possible penny out of fans has left them with the rightful attitude of "I don't give a sh!t about you (i.e., team/owner) unless you give me the ultimate fix of winning big time."
I don't know a lot about the fan feeling situation at Nebraska. I'm guessing season tickets cost an arm and a leg. But I will say this about my experience in Lincoln, I found very affordable parking and tailgating. I was shocked you could leave the stadium and re-enter without any hassles. I was pleasantly surprised you could buy a real latte for $2 and a variety of real meal items for a bit more. It felt like the University of Nebraska was trying hard to give the fans a break on the cost of food and drinks. My wife and I thought, why can't it be like this everywhere? It felt good despite our beloved Gophers getting drubbed from the get go. I think teams could learn something about showing a little love to fans even while they're reaching into our pants pockets.
So yes, winning comes first. But be ready for a mass exodus if that is the only thing fans can get out of the experience. My 2-cents.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
Reply With Quote
06-08-2014, 09:32 AM
#15
UpnorthGo4
Moral Compass
<DL class=userstats><DT>Join Date <DD>Nov 2008 </DD><DT>Posts <DD>2,897 </DD></DL>
[h=2]
[/h]
Originally Posted by
MNGoldenGophers1
So yes, winning comes first. But be ready for a mass exodus if that is the only thing fans can get out of the experience. My 2-cents.
+1 If the Gophers start winning year in and year out but the cost and experience of going to their games isn't much different than going to a Vikings game I will find something else to do with my time on Saturdays. The realignment of conferences and the other changes currently going on in Division I football is already starting to turn me off to it.
<!-- edit note -->
Last edited by UpnorthGo4; 06-08-2014 at 09:36 AM.
<!-- / edit note -->
Reply With Quote
06-08-2014, 09:39 AM
#16
TrapperDoo
Senior Member
<DL class=userstats><DT>Join Date <DD>Oct 2010 </DD><DT>Posts <DD>203 </DD></DL>
[h=2]
[/h]
Yet more evidence that money is ruining college football. No wonder the players want to unionize - everyone is taking a bigger piece, so why not the players, without whom there would be no game? Too bad, so sad...
Reply With Quote
06-08-2014, 09:52 AM
#17
tikited
Me
<DL class=userstats><DT>Join Date <DD>Nov 2008 </DD><DT>Location <DD>Right behind you </DD><DT>Posts <DD>7,152 </DD></DL>
[h=2]
[/h]
Originally Posted by
MNGoldenGophers1
I don't know a lot about the fan feeling situation at Nebraska. I'm guessing season tickets cost an arm and a leg. But I will say this about my experience in Lincoln, I found very affordable parking and tailgating. I was shocked you could leave the stadium and re-enter without any hassles. I was pleasantly surprised you could buy a real latte for $2 and a variety of real meal items for a bit more. It felt like the University of Nebraska was trying hard to give the fans a break on the cost of food and drinks.
My wife and I thought, why can't it be like this everywhere? It felt good despite our beloved Gophers getting drubbed from the get go. I think teams could learn something about showing a little love to fans even while they're reaching into our pants pockets.
So yes, winning comes first. But be ready for a mass exodus if that is the only thing fans can get out of the experience. My 2-cents.
It is easier to do this in Nebraska, but the point is well taken.
Aloha Mr. Hand
Reply With Quote
06-08-2014, 10:08 AM
#18
Ski U Master
Senior Member
<DL class=userstats><DT>Join Date <DD>Nov 2008 </DD><DT>Posts <DD>2,525 </DD></DL>
[h=2]
[/h]
You can make minor adjustments to this for nearly any team:
Originally Posted by
imthewalrus
It really is quite simple. Tickets are not selling as well for a number of reasons:
1. The coach and the team lose too many games.
2. The coach and the team no longer really compete with Wisconsin.
3. Vikings have surpassed the Gophers within their own state.
4. The Football Program at Minnesota is NOT the program of the 1960s. By losing as much as they now do, the Minnesota tradition has lost it's luster.
It will take consistent winning seasons and it will take defeating Wisconsin and Iowa a number of times before they will start feeling that loving feeling for the maroon and gold in Minneapolis.
The students are always the first to bail...
06-09-2014, 09:04 AM
#19
imthewalrus
Senior Member
<DL class=userstats><DT>Join Date <DD>Jul 2010 </DD><DT>Posts <DD>1,988 </DD></DL>
[h=2]
That one was for you Bayfield. I think you are one of the very few...[/h]
Originally Posted by
Bayfieldgopher
Classic! Great post Wren!! Thanks.
posters left around this site that still enjoy taking a peak at Big Ten history and how it may relate to the U of M Football Program.
One point of interest for me is what would appear to be the simple fact that the most direct way to a conference championship for the Gophers would appear to be the huge task of defeating the 3 oldest trophy game foes that have been historically on the schedule the most frequently. Going all the way back to the Bierman Days: championships were pretty much always won when the Maroon & Gold defeated Michigan, Iowa and Wisconsin all in the same season. (OF course, back in Bierman's days, those three games accounted for a larger percentage of the conference games played because the Conference Schedule contained less games than it does today.) Of course, wins over Michigan have been very few and far between. Therefore, a win over Michigan becomes critical to this idea.
The two years Murray Warmath won Conference Championships were 1960 and 1967. Both years, Murray's Boys defeated the Maize & Blue, the Hawkeyes and the Badgers.
One of these days when I have some extra time, I'll go back through Mr. Thrall's incredible History of Golden Gopher Football work and make sure that has been the case. Just off the top of my head, I only recall seeing wins over all three in years that Conference Championships were won or shared.
So: I think it might be a good bet to say that in any year you see the Maroon & Gold bring all three of those oldest trophys home, there just might be a Conference Divisional Championship trophy sitting with the pig, the axe and the jug. I will try to review the records just to make sure some day. I don't know why, but I find going through those old Conference Standings Charts to be an act of love. So much of the joy and pleasure I get from being a Golden Gopher Football Fan comes from the fact that fans have been enjoying this football stuff, caring about how their team does, feeling as though by being a fan today, we share so many traditions, great moments coming from incredible wins that changed the plight of the team very positively and yes, even crushing, painful and costly losses
that left fans saying and thinking: "If only....we could have....would have...should have..."
I know there are probably a few other fans who value the history of the Big Ten Conference. But, you certainly are one of those fortunate fans who do hold the history of this Conference in high esteem. It makes going to games on campus so great. It makes going to games on a campus in Champaign, West. Laf.,Evanston, Madison, Iowa City, Lincoln, (We Gopher Fans have a LONG history of games with Nebraska even when they weren't in the Big Ten) Columbus, Ann Arbor, State College, Bloomington and East Lansing a chance to participate in a long-standing tradition. I even look forward to making trips to Rutgers and Maryland. And I REALLY do enjoy talking to old-timer Badger and Hawkeye Fans. Most of them that I have taken time to visit with before and after games share many great memories of their teams and games that they had with my team. There is a kind of "BIG TEN" kinship that over rides the significance of just the game that was played that day. There are a lot of great Big Ten Fans out there and it is always good to know something about all the other Conference Teams so that a person can be a good guest when visiting other Big Ten Game Day Saturday Settings.
So, we will have a chance to MAYBE think Pasadena some year when the Pig, the Axe and the Jug are all resting safely in Minneapolis on campus at the University of Minnesota. At least, that is the way our history says it has to happen.
<!-- edit note -->
Last edited by imthewalrus; 06-09-2014 at 09:10 AM.
<!-- / edit note -->
wren has to give
The KILL STAFF SYSTEM
his total support...
And when needed
an honest contrast or two
just to keep this board an honest board...
; 0 )
Reply With Quote
06-09-2014, 10:14 AM
#20
wait!what?
Senior Member
<DL class=userstats><DT>Join Date <DD>Jul 2009 </DD><DT>Posts <DD>2,181 </DD></DL>
[h=2]
[/h]
wha? pasadena?
no offense.
Reply With Quote
