University Ave

[RailBaronYarr]

Ok, don't massacre me, this post is half tongue-in-cheek. We've talked about the band marching down University roughly 4,568 times here on this thread. The 2 reasons most often cited are 1) the city's unwillingness to shut down University Ave, even if only for 15 minutes, due to traffic flow concerns leading up to the game and 2) the band/director's unease with the logistics of doing this with all the other gameday activities and the wear/tear the put on the band (despite them doing a full-stadium march around and plaza show before the game).

With regard to point 1):
Came across Goldy's Run via email. Always wanted to participate and perhaps I will this year. I noticed the route the race takes: link, which is literally right down University Ave from the stadium to 14th Ave (Annie's Parlour) for both the 10 mile and 5k runners. I know, a race like this has hardly the number of people compared to a football game. Last year, the 10 mile run alone had ~1,500 runners (link). This year they've added a 5k (not sure if the kid race is new or not). I would assume that in total there would probably be anywhere from 2,500 to 3,000 competitors. Some of these will be family members who come together, others individuals. But keep in mind, many of them will also have spectators come to see them run or finish, oftentimes showing up after University Ave has been closed.

For football games, take out student seats (8,000) and assume full capacity crowd, all of which arrive by car. That's 42k people coming, assume average of 2.5 per vehicle, making for ~16.8k people coming. Remember that many park on West Bank or StP fairground lots (where people would not for a Goldy's Run) and therefore don't use the University Ave by vehicle. Let's say 5k cars in total.

We're talking about probably 3-4k cars coming for the Goldy's Run (course will be blocked off before the race starts) and just over 10k cars arriving for football games (many of which arrive much earlier than an hour before the game for tailgating or eating purposes). I know there IS a difference but it seems odd that this point is stressed so much by the city and U yet they are able to pull it off for a fun run.

Just some thoughts. Blast away

 

[Gopher Bandanna Guy]

Goldy's Run is excellent. You should do it. Good cause, and always fun to mill around on the fieldturf afterwards. I've been doing it since its inception, and always had a great time.

But on to your larger point, isn't the Scholar's Walk wide enough to accommodate the Marching band? I mean what's the attraction to getting University Avenue, other than potentially clogging the sidewalks for patrons of Big Ten, Sally's, etc.? Seems like the band marching thru the safer confines of campus is a better option, with more areas to observe from. If the Scholar's Walk is too narrow for the full band, maybe parse down the size a bit.

 

[Tee09]

Ok, don't massacre me, this post is half tongue-in-cheek. We've talked about the band marching down University roughly 4,568 times here on this thread. The 2 reasons most often cited are 1) the city's unwillingness to shut down University Ave, even if only for 15 minutes, due to traffic flow concerns leading up to the game and 2) the band/director's unease with the logistics of doing this with all the other gameday activities and the wear/tear the put on the band (despite them doing a full-stadium march around and plaza show before the game).

With regard to point 1):
Came across Goldy's Run via email. Always wanted to participate and perhaps I will this year. I noticed the route the race takes: link, which is literally right down University Ave from the stadium to 14th Ave (Annie's Parlour) for both the 10 mile and 5k runners. I know, a race like this has hardly the number of people compared to a football game. Last year, the 10 mile run alone had ~1,500 runners (link). This year they've added a 5k (not sure if the kid race is new or not). I would assume that in total there would probably be anywhere from 2,500 to 3,000 competitors. Some of these will be family members who come together, others individuals. But keep in mind, many of them will also have spectators come to see them run or finish, oftentimes showing up after University Ave has been closed.

For football games, take out student seats (8,000) and assume full capacity crowd, all of which arrive by car. That's 42k people coming, assume average of 2.5 per vehicle, making for ~16.8k people coming. Remember that many park on West Bank or StP fairground lots (where people would not for a Goldy's Run) and therefore don't use the University Ave by vehicle. Let's say 5k cars in total.

We're talking about probably 3-4k cars coming for the Goldy's Run (course will be blocked off before the race starts) and just over 10k cars arriving for football games (many of which arrive much earlier than an hour before the game for tailgating or eating purposes). I know there IS a difference but it seems odd that this point is stressed so much by the city and U yet they are able to pull it off for a fun run.

Just some thoughts. Blast away

The logistics reason is more based on they'd be going from the stadium where all their stuff is to somewhere else, just so they could walk back to the stadium. There's no point. If they were still in Northrop, I'm guessing they'd march down University to the stadium.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

Goldy's Run is excellent. You should do it. Good cause, and always fun to mill around on the fieldturf afterwards. I've been doing it since its inception, and always had a great time.

But on to your larger point, isn't the Scholar's Walk wide enough to accommodate the Marching band? I mean what's the attraction to getting University Avenue, other than potentially clogging the sidewalks for patrons of Big Ten, Sally's, etc.? Seems like the band marching thru the safer confines of campus is a better option, with more areas to observe from. If the Scholar's Walk is too narrow for the full band, maybe parse down the size a bit.

I'm not in disagreement that there are other places that achieve nearly the same thing. I would say marching down the Scholar's Walk has some significance in that it is through campus. I don't think heading down University would clog up the sidewalks along Sally's and Big Ten seeing as they're on Washington But you're right it would clog of patrons of establishments along University and the frat houses. That's what makes it worthwhile. There are already people there who would see the band go through! Marching around the stadium an hour before kickoff is nice, but most fans are not present at that time (other than band enthusiasts, who would be wherever the band is anyway). I don't mean to get in to a huge debate, just pointing out that the city is obviously willing to shut down University Ave for a long while - the route starts and ends on the street, and that includes the 10 mile route that can take upwards of 2 hours to complete for many people. Just pointing out the disparity in logic on their part.

 

[Gopher Bandanna Guy]

Hah! While I was writing 'University Ave and Sally's', something seemed wrong there, but I just rolled with it. I think the fact that University is such a major arterial INTO the area is the problem. But if they decided to reverse the flow of traffic on SE 4th, say up to 35W, then we might have something! Allow incoming drivers access towards the stadium there, and you might have something. I'll have to talk with some of my traffic engineer buds and see if that is even feasible. They'll probably have some obvious reason they'd catch right away.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

Hah! While I was writing 'University Ave and Sally's', something seemed wrong there, but I just rolled with it. I think the fact that University is such a major arterial INTO the area is the problem. But if they decided to reverse the flow of traffic on SE 4th, say up to 35W, then we might have something! Allow incoming drivers access towards the stadium there, and you might have something. I'll have to talk with some of my traffic engineer buds and see if that is even feasible. They'll probably have some obvious reason they'd catch right away.

On a completely unrelated note, I wish they would abolish the one-way pairing of University and 4th Street. Having traffic roll in only one direction with little to no areas of street parking (basically only on 4th for a 2-3 block stretch in the heart of Dinkytown) makes for people to treat it like a high-speed road - I routinely see people driving 40+ on 4th street right through Dinkytown as if the 30 seconds it will save them are so important. Make them both bi-directional roads. Reduce the lane width. People will drive slower, it will be safer for pedestrians (you know, pretty much everyone using the area), and you have a more robust network for cars to both get in and out. Stop treating the area like the only way to get in or out is by car and people will stop using the car as the only way to get in and out.

 

[GoAUpher]

Gonna toss a few details out since I've done Goldy's both years. First, they don't close University for it. Only one lane is closed from 23rd through 14th. They also keep a lane closed from Walnut to the stadium for the finish too but I can't recall how that ends up looking/working since you have to cross University to get into TCF (sorry, I'm more tired by that point). It's not really comparable to a football game or marching the band down University before a FB game in any way. There are not 3 or 4K cars coming for Goldy's. They fill the Maroon/Gold lots and part of lot 37 (which is 1K to 1.5K tops). There may be some folks in the Wash/Oak ramps as well. But nowhere near 3K cars. Plus as I note, the closure to University is different as Goldy's allows for 2 lanes of traffic to keep moving versus closing the whole thing.

I know you're just spitballing so please don't feel like I'm attacking ya.

 

[GoAUpher]

As for Scholars Walk...the issue isn't that it's not big enough for the band (though that might be true since I don't know what they are cool with for minimum # of marchers in width). It's that you don't have enough room for the band plus spectators because there is no room between the Walk and the buildings. Plus the acoustics would be awful. You'd end up with horrible echos from playing in a narrow corridor between brick buildings.

 

[GoAUpher]

On a completely unrelated note, I wish they would abolish the one-way pairing of University and 4th Street. Having traffic roll in only one direction with little to no areas of street parking (basically only on 4th for a 2-3 block stretch in the heart of Dinkytown) makes for people to treat it like a high-speed road - I routinely see people driving 40+ on 4th street right through Dinkytown as if the 30 seconds it will save them are so important. Make them both bi-directional roads. Reduce the lane width. People will drive slower, it will be safer for pedestrians (you know, pretty much everyone using the area), and you have a more robust network for cars to both get in and out. Stop treating the area like the only way to get in or out is by car and people will stop using the car as the only way to get in and out.

They've been fighting this battle here in Madison to on Johnson and East Washington leading away from the Capitol to the east. For FORTY YEARS. Cars will win out in this type of battle. =)

 

[RailBaronYarr]

They've been fighting this battle here in Madison to on Johnson and East Washington leading away from the Capitol to the east. For FORTY YEARS. Cars will win out in this type of battle. =)

It's really sad. College campuses are honestly among the most pedestrian-heavy areas in our country. Only NYC and possibly the urban cores of SF and Boston could compete with colleges on number of people walking or biking to school/work. Cars have a place, I'm not advocating to take them away from everyone, but honestly the design of our roads (they're no longer streets) focuses solely on the speed/throughput of autos, with a secondary focus on auto safety and a distant third focus on ped safety. The painted green bike lanes are a joke as few, if any, car drivers pay attention or give proper right of way.

Thanks for the info on the run. I would have assumed more in attendance via car given the number of runners. Also thought all of University was closed based on a picture that showed 2+ lanes of people at the start line. My bad. And as a former bando, agree with you on all points regarding the Scholar's Walk.

 

[Fuzzy Rumpton]

Deleted

GoAUpher covered the limited lane closures already

 

[husker70]

If you ever wonder why something is the way it is, it is because its just the way someone wants it. Now if Coach Kill came out and stated I want the band on University Avenue as part of the game experience, make it happen. Do you have any doubt that's the way it would be.

 

[GoAUpher]

Do you have any doubt that's the way it would be.

Yes, yes I do. I'd love for the U to take a "come at me bro" stance with the City but I'm not sure it would work out the way they want. What they need to do is get Gopher fans/stakeholders/boosters to lobby the City to make changes. Tell us what they want, where the roadblocks are, and ask for our help in vocalizing a request for change. All the City hears right now is the VERY loud voices of the neighborhood associations.

Also, as has been mentioned before, keep in mind that closing University even for a short period means that high $ donor lots lose a main route of ingress and the University Ave Ramp (highest donor level) loses it's only entrance for that period. It's that sort of thing that makes me wonder if the U even wants the band on University.

 

[husker70]

Just how long does it take to March down University? 15 minutes? 20? If you knew when they would be on The Avenue, park to your car in the ramp and join the parade. If you have no interest in the band, arrive 15 minutes later. We are not talking about the Rose Bowl parade.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

Regarding 4th/University Aves.. interesting that streets.mn came out with a post, how timely. http://www.streets.mn/2013/02/06/4131/

Perhaps making the streets on campus more versatile and flexible would allow 1) better safety and 2) alternate routes in and out of campus (by car).

 

[GoAUpher]

Just how long does it take to March down University? 15 minutes? 20? If you knew when they would be on The Avenue, park to your car in the ramp and join the parade. If you have no interest in the band, arrive 15 minutes later. We are not talking about the Rose Bowl parade.

No argument from me. Just pointing out that money talks and convenience (i.e. get to show up whenever with a minimal amount of issues) is one of the reasons you spend that extra dough.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

No argument from me. Just pointing out that money talks and convenience (i.e. get to show up whenever with a minimal amount of issues) is one of the reasons you spend that extra dough.

Ah, one of the reasons why this whole "arms race" has negative consequences. Gotta pander to the people with money. Collegiate atmosphere and gameday experience be damned! Those high rollers need to park near the stadium whenever they damn well please, and can't be bothered to wait 15 minutes to do so! Throw it in the list of all the things that detract from the game in the name of making money (in-game promotions, 11 am kickoffs to accommodate TV, etc etc).

 

[GopherRock]

Just how long does it take to March down University? 15 minutes? 20? If you knew when they would be on The Avenue, park to your car in the ramp and join the parade. If you have no interest in the band, arrive 15 minutes later. We are not talking about the Rose Bowl parade.