Two glaring weak areas.

Bayfieldgopher

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1. Rebounding. This will be an issue during the BT season. Our young guys need to mature physically and the whole team needs to react to the ball. MSU made us look silly. DJ did not hold up at all on the boards.

2. Inability to shut down good shooting guards. I posted this earlier and got ripped for it but Nolen is not a shut down defender. His lone strength is his quick hands and he relies too much on that. He is bad at working through screens and plays lazy D when after his man cuts without the ball and ends up in poor position on the weakside to defend his man when the ball is reversed. I believe that most of our opponents had guards led their team in scoring to this point. Hoffarber seldom is in good weakside position and ends up flying at the shooter in mid air. I think Joseph has the potential to be a better D player than Nolen.
 

Adding a Bobby Jackson threat on offense plus a year of Big Ten experience for both Iverson and Sampson would make a huge difference.
 

Can anyone name a freshman other than Courtney James who was able to make an immediate impact for us in the post in conference play? Iverson and Sampson are works in progress.

Hoffarber, Westbrook, and Bostick all have limitations on the defensive side of the court. Hopefully Williams is eligible next fall because his size and athleticism would be plus in this area.
 

I would add an interior presence offensively to your list of weaknesses.
 

1. Rebounding. This will be an issue during the BT season. Our young guys need to mature physically and the whole team needs to react to the ball. MSU made us look silly. DJ did not hold up at all on the boards.

2. Inability to shut down good shooting guards. I posted this earlier and got ripped for it but Nolen is not a shut down defender. His lone strength is his quick hands and he relies too much on that. He is bad at working through screens and plays lazy D when after his man cuts without the ball and ends up in poor position on the weakside to defend his man when the ball is reversed. I believe that most of our opponents had guards led their team in scoring to this point. Hoffarber seldom is in good weakside position and ends up flying at the shooter in mid air. I think Joseph has the potential to be a better D player than Nolen.


You are right, you're gonna get ripped because you are using the wrong game to try and make a bad argument against one of the Gophers best players (and arguably the most consistent presence on the floor this season).

Nolen is still one of the best defenders in the Big Ten (if not the country) but he is NOT the top SCORER on the team. The so-called scorers on this team (Hoffarber and Westbrook, in particular) did not do their jobs on the offensive end and the post rebounding (as well as Hoffarber, Westbrook and Busch) was atrocious. Also, MSU had four excellent guards who were in rotation both on defense and offense. Minnesota had..Nolen.

Nolen cannot win a game by himself and certainly, Lucas didn't win the game by himself for MSU--he just got the most points. MSU owned both the offensive and defensive boards (esp Suton, Morgan and Ibok) and most of Gopher players could not keep up with the Spartans in the foot race that was the second half. Tubby also made some mistakes from the bench, so this loss was definitely a "team effort." Not sure why he was "saving" Sampson, Iverson and even Williams in second half--he should have told them to keep taking it to Suton, Morgan and Ibok because if they had gotten the MSU bigs in foul trouble (or fouled out) Minnesota's might have gotten more open shot opportunities down the stretch.

MSU is a top-tier team. Good loss for the Gophers at this point in the season.
 


The so-called scorers on this team (Hoffarber and Westbrook, in particular) did not do their jobs on the offensive end and the post rebounding (as well as Hoffarber, Westbrook and Busch) was atrocious. Also, MSU had four excellent guards who were in rotation both on defense and offense. Minnesota had..Nolen.

Nolen cannot win a game by himself
Before you go off on anyone else, note that both Hoffarber & Westbrook had right around their season averages for scoring, and Hoffarber had just as many rebounds as Nolen (4) in less minutes, and right on his season average (which is both Hoffarber & Nolen's season averages).

The 3 MSU players that Westbrook and Hoffarber traded off guarding were a combined 10-28 from the field, hardly "shooting the lights out." I think we'd take that percentage if we played them again.

Lucas played 36 minutes, Nolen 33; Nolen was guarding him practically every second he was in there. Lucas scored 24 points. This isn't to say that it was all Nolen's fault, as defense is played as a team, but he simply couldn't get around the ball screens fast enough, and simply lost Lucas going off screens. That's not the norm with Nolen, he looked really tired out there (as most of our team did), and couldn't seem to keep up with the faster Lucas.

Blaming the rest of the Gophers while saying, "Minnesota had...Nolen" is both unfair to the other Gophers and overemphasizes Nolen's game when he flat out didn't play well. There is plenty of blame to go around after the way everyone played; win as a team, and lose as a team.
 

Weaknesses exposed by MSU were many.

Nolen may be the best player on the team, inclusing scoring.

BH is a spot up shooter, not much more at this point.

LW gets out of control (still) at times.

Bigs are still young and inexperienced.
 

Before you go off on anyone else, note that both Hoffarber & Westbrook had right around their season averages for scoring, and Hoffarber had just as many rebounds as Nolen (4) in less minutes, and right on his season average (which is both Hoffarber & Nolen's season averages).

The 3 MSU players that Westbrook and Hoffarber traded off guarding were a combined 10-28 from the field, hardly "shooting the lights out." I think we'd take that percentage if we played them again.

Lucas played 36 minutes, Nolen 33; Nolen was guarding him practically every second he was in there. Lucas scored 24 points. This isn't to say that it was all Nolen's fault, as defense is played as a team, but he simply couldn't get around the ball screens fast enough, and simply lost Lucas going off screens. That's not the norm with Nolen, he looked really tired out there (as most of our team did), and couldn't seem to keep up with the faster Lucas.

Blaming the rest of the Gophers while saying, "Minnesota had...Nolen" is both unfair to the other Gophers and overemphasizes Nolen's game when he flat out didn't play well. There is plenty of blame to go around after the way everyone played; win as a team, and lose as a team.

For the record, SGL you are a "homer" for Hoffarber (in your eyes he can do NO wrong) and I tend to lean that direction for Nolen.

My "diatribe" edited for content is this: "Minnesota had ... Nolen" and if he "flat out didn't play well" (your words) what does that say about the rest of the team? I rest my case.
 

For the record, SGL you are a "homer" for Hoffarber (in your eyes he can do NO wrong) and I tend to lean that direction for Nolen.

My "diatribe" edited for content is this: "Minnesota had ... Nolen" and if he "flat out didn't play well" (your words) what does that say about the rest of the team? I rest my case.
Wrong. Sure, I'm a fan of Hoffarber, and have been since I started watching him play him back in his junior year of high school, but I call it like I see it. I talked about his need to better his defense even before his freshman season started last year, as well as doing more than just spotting up on the perimeter. I do the same to every player, both positive and negative.

I've been a Gopher fan with season tickets way before Hoffarber came here, and will be after he leaves. More recently, the past 4 years I've been a member of GopherHole I've loved talking about players, the team, and our program. Nadine does a great job running this site, and I look forward to many more years of conversations with other Gopher fans.

When someone berates nearly every player on our team except for Nolen (when he didn't even play well), I'm going to call them on it. Period.

And you're the one that said "Minnesota had...Nolen," not me. Using your own words to prove your point doesn't make much sense.

Either way, time to move on. It doesn't really matter. We have a huge game coming up tomorrow, and that's what matters. Go Gophs!
 



Wrong. Sure, I'm a fan of Hoffarber, and have been since I started watching him play him back in his junior year of high school, but I call it like I see it. I talked about his need to better his defense even before his freshman season started last year, as well as doing more than just spotting up on the perimeter. I do the same to every player, both positive and negative.

I've been a Gopher fan with season tickets way before Hoffarber came here, and will be after he leaves. More recently, the past 4 years I've been a member of GopherHole I've loved talking about players, the team, and our program. Nadine does a great job running this site, and I look forward to many more years of conversations with other Gopher fans.

When someone berates nearly every player on our team except for Nolen (when he didn't even play well), I'm going to call them on it. Period.

And you're the one that said "Minnesota had...Nolen," not me. Using your own words to prove your point doesn't make much sense.

Either way, time to move on. It doesn't really matter. We have a huge game coming up tomorrow, and that's what matters. Go Gophs!

My original post was in response to Bayfield's criticism of Nolen's defensive ability which I found offensive.

My "diatribe" edited for content is this: "Minnesota had ... Nolen" and if he "flat out didn't play well" (your words), what does that say about the rest of the team? I rest my case. I added a comma, does that make it more clear for you?

Using my own words to re-emphasize my point was a lot nicer and more concise that the 7 paragraph diatribe I had intended to post. But since that obviously missed the mark...

You are right, that wasn't Nolen's best game:

14 pts including 4 - 4 FT (both team highs)
2-4 from 3 pt line (4-8 total FGS)
7 asts (also team high)
4 rebounds (tied for 2nd with Hoff)
1 block
1 steal
3 TOs
3 fouls

However, on Wednesday the only stat line (player) that was better on the floor was Lucas. But the only stat that Nolen cares about is "70 - 58" unlike some other Gopher teammates (yes, I'm talking about Westbrook).

Let's talk about "team ball" for a second:

Nolen got 7 assists, Hoffarber got 1 assist, the rest of the team 0. Hmmm.

Rebounding: Iverson 7, Nolen 4, Hoffarber 4, Johnson 2, five other Gophers (including "Mr. Hustle") one each for team total 22 rebounds. Guess they were all too busy playing "defense" to crash the boards--offensive and defensive.

The Gopher team stat sheet was filled with "zeros" which is ironic considering the only "zero" Nolen had was the one on his jersey. We can all agree that it wasn't one of the Gophers best games, nor was it one of Nolen's best games. This is actually a good thing--it means the Gophers could/should beat MSU on their court next month if they play well.

BTW: SGL you give yourself too much credit. You have NEVER made a negative observation about Hoffarber. About other Gophers, both positive and negative, but Hoffarber, never a harsh word only flowery, glowing praise to the point of hero worship. Proving my point, your mind read "nearly every player on the team except Nolen," my post listed the names Hoffarber, Westbrook and Busch. For example, I didn't criticism Iverson--for his first Big Ten game, I thought he held his own. He'll have to do better as the season progresses, and his play to date would indicate he will do just that.

In case you haven't noticed, I'm not a Hoff Hater but he is not immune from criticism (nor is Nolen).

Yeah, the Gophers should put this game behind them, but let's hope that "out-manned, out-muscled, out-rebounded" doesn't become a Gopher team theme for the Big Ten season. All this talk of "wait until next year" is rubbish--get it done THIS YEAR.

That has to be the attitude of the Gopher players and their fans. JMHO
 

Another opinion

We were at the game with a friend who played point guard for the Gophers about 40 years ago. He hasn't followed the team lately but offered up his unbiased opinion. There were just a few players who impressed him - mostly Lucas and Nolen. He thought Nolen looked tired in the second half but thought he was a great player. He thought Lucas was potential NBA material. He also criticized the double team on Lucas, making a valid point that as the focus went to stopping Lucas, we were out of position to rebound.

I still say the biggest problem with this team is our inexperienced centers. It forces the rest of the team to pick them up rather than strengthening their own game. Its very, very tough to win a BT game w/o a significant inside presence, which we didn't have - yet. Bayfield, I really don't understand your focus on Nolen. I find it very surprising and perplexing.

BTW, the other friend who came to the game with us was from Michigan, who told us this year, its all about which team shows up. Guess which team we played?
 




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