Tubby Timeout

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rychart45

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I wish someone had the time to go back and track the effectiveness of timeouts Tubby has taken at the end of first halves. They rarely seem to get us a clean look at the basket, so much so that I've named them "Tubby Timeouts". Yesterday was another example - though Eliason deserves a portion of the blame for trying to go 1 on everyone from half court, the reason he was in that position is because we had to inbound the ball and had a tough time. Am I crazy, or do these timeouts seem to be really ineffective?
 

rychart45 said:
I wish someone had the time to go back and track the effectiveness of timeouts Tubby has taken at the end of first halves. They rarely seem to get us a clean look at the basket, so much so that I've named them "Tubby Timeouts". Yesterday was another example - though Eliason deserves a portion of the blame for trying to go 1 on everyone from half court, the reason he was in that position is because we had to inbound the ball and had a tough time. Am I crazy, or do these timeouts seem to be really ineffective?
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If these things do even out, the odds are defiantly in our favor going forward.
 

This is hilarious, I text my dad and a friend every time this has happened since 09-10 season and we call them Tubby Timeouts as well. I don't get how it could be so lopisided if I were more ambitious I would love to look up the game logs and see how bad it really is. The Duke game drove me nuts, called a timeout and in the timeout didn't tell them on defense(I know we had the ball) to make the ball handler have to move laterally and they promptly drain the 3. Had to say sorry for my language to the extended family.
 

Yeah, can't blame Tubby for yesterday. I'm pretty sure he didn't take a timeout to design a "EE, you take it to the basket with 20 seconds left on the clock" play.
 

It's the timeout that will be subtracted at start of the 2nd half if not used in the first - frankly, I'd rather him "lose it" than "use it."
 


Good grief....I'm sure Tubby didn't set up a play for EE out of the timeout, but I'm sure they understand the only way they don't take the last shot is if they have a wide open layup. EE thought he had a layup and he didn't, it happens he is a 20 or 21 year old kid. Just about every college coach does the same thing and calls the timeout, and if the Gophers would have thrown the ball away or taken a bad shot without the timeout, you would have been bitching that he didn't call a timeout. What bothers me more is that some of you know seem to think you know close to as much as a coach who has won 20 games about 20 seasons in division basketball just because you coached your daughters 3 grade basketball team.
 

I'm aware it's the timeout he will lose - I too would rather we lose it.

Ethomas - of course he didn't draw up the play for EE. I said as much in my original post. My problem isn't that he calls the timeouts - as you said, most coaches do the same. My problem is the incredible lack of production from the timeouts - not only do we rarely score out of them, but we rarely get a good look out of them.

For the record, I don't have any kids, but I have done some coaching.
 

ethomasp31 said:
Good grief....I'm sure Tubby didn't set up a play for EE out of the timeout, but I'm sure they understand the only way they don't take the last shot is if they have a wide open layup. EE thought he had a layup and he didn't, it happens he is a 20 or 21 year old kid. Just about every college coach does the same thing and calls the timeout, and if the Gophers would have thrown the ball away or taken a bad shot without the timeout, you would have been bitching that he didn't call a timeout. What bothers me more is that some of you know seem to think you know close to as much as a coach who has won 20 games about 20 seasons in division basketball just because you coached your daughters 3 grade basketball team.
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+1
 

I'm glad other people notice this. It has become hilarious over the years that we simply can never run a play out of a timeout and score. It simply doesn't happen.
 



We don't know what he drew up out of the timeout because EE thought he had a layup and was called for charging. Everybody thinks they should score about 75% out of the timeout...it just doesn't happen. The Gophers execute at less than 50% (with turnovers and missed shots) and if you look back at the stats, after timeouts, they are going to be close to the same if not a little better. It just seems like a lot less because that is what you remember.
 

ethomasp31 said:
We don't know what he drew up out of the timeout because EE thought he had a layup and was called for charging. Everybody thinks they should score about 75% out of the timeout...it just doesn't happen. The Gophers execute at less than 50% (with turnovers and missed shots) and if you look back at the stats, after timeouts, they are going to be close to the same if not a little better. It just seems like a lot less because that is what you remember.
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I don't think we are expecting 75%, but we are expecting an actual play to be run. Most of the time it consists of the point guard holding the ball till 10 second mark on the shot clock and us getting a crummy shot.
 

ethomasp31 said:
We don't know what he drew up out of the timeout because EE thought he had a layup and was called for charging. Everybody thinks they should score about 75% out of the timeout...it just doesn't happen. The Gophers execute at less than 50% (with turnovers and missed shots) and if you look back at the stats, after timeouts, they are going to be close to the same if not a little better. It just seems like a lot less because that is what you remember.
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You are making up an argument here. I have never requested a 75 percent success rate. I want us to get a look that we otherwise wouldn't get without the timeout - that's the whole point. If we will get the same shot with or without the timeout, don't take it. Why? Yesterday was a prime example - you have to get the ball back in bounds. When that doesn't go well, sometimes things break down and your center decides to dribble drive from thirty feet, resulting in a charge.

For the record, I'm pretty sure you made up the stats in your post.
 

rychart45 said:
You are making up an argument here. I have never requested a 75 percent success rate. I want us to get a look that we otherwise wouldn't get without the timeout - that's the whole point. If we will get the same shot with or without the timeout, don't take it. Why? Yesterday was a prime example - you have to get the ball back in bounds. When that doesn't go well, sometimes things break down and your center decides to dribble drive from thirty feet, resulting in a charge.

For the record, I'm pretty sure you made up the stats in your post.
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I think you're making it up that you have done some coaching.
 



A missed shot at the buzzer is better than a turnover or a shot too soon giving the other team a chance to cut into the lead. I think some of you have no idea how hard it is even to get a shot off in major college basketball. You have to realize that the other team has great athletes that are doing everything they can to keep the Gophers from getting off a good shot as well.
 

Howie - what exactly am I stating that is so absurd in this thread? Instead of attacking me, explain why I'm wrong.

Ethomas - you realize that after a timeout yesterday, we both a)took a shot too early and b) turned the ball over. I get it's hard to get a shot. I really do. I'm saying that if you are going to get a bad shot with or without the timeout, why are you taking the timeout?
 

What stats did I make up? You honestly think the Gophers execute at over 50% on their first shots in the half court offense? They get a lot of their points on second chance points and some in transition. I don't know the stats...you are right, but they aren't 50% in their half court offense on first shots when you factor in turnovers, and that is what you would get if you hold for the last shot.
 

Same argument, different day. If it works, great job Tubby. If it doesn't, Tubby sucks.
 

Ethomas - I've never once mentioned a stat like 50 percent in this thread. You said yourself you don't know the stats. Case closed.

Dr. Don - not that at all. I've never said Tubby sucks. I'm wondering why we are so ineffective coming out of timeouts at the end of the first half. I was hoping to have some productive discussion about whether others notice this or not, but there clearly is a "how dare you question Tubby" crowd on this board that can't come up with anything more constructive than me coaching third grade girls or saying it is the "same argument, different day". Really appreciate your contribution to this thread.
 

EE took the shot because he thought he had a layup, and I'm sure it was his understanding that the only way he was going to take a shot is if he had a clear path to the basket for a layup. He made a mistake, and it was a bad stretch for the Gophers, but it happens when you have 20 and 21 year olds playing basketball against extremely athletic players. I was pissed off and bitching at it too. We should have gone into the locker room with at worst a 5 point lead and possibly a 7 or 8 point lead....I get it. It turned out Memphis missed their shot out of a timeout also so we still had a 5 point lead. My point is that it just seems like we don't score out of a time out because that is what you remember, but if you were to look at stats, overall we probably have better possessions after timeouts than we do without them. I think we also have unrealistic expectations out of the timeouts. Thats what I'm saying. Yeah it sucked what happened yesterday and I was like what the hell also, but it is not different for almost any other team and hardly a reason to rip Tubby in my opinion.
 

I never said you did mention 50%...I said the Gophers execute at less than 50% on first shots in their half court offense, but some of you expect them to score 75% out of a timeout. You didn't say you expect them to score 75% of the time out of a timeout, but thats the attitude that comes across.
 

rychart45 said:
Dr. Don - not that at all. I've never said Tubby sucks. I'm wondering why we are so ineffective coming out of timeouts at the end of the first half. I was hoping to have some productive discussion about whether others notice this or not, but there clearly is a "how dare you question Tubby" crowd on this board that can't come up with anything more constructive than me coaching third grade girls or saying it is the "same argument, different day". Really appreciate your contribution to this thread.
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The reason Don is saying "same argument, different day" is that this same discussion has been brought up every year. Each and every year someone starts a thread wondering why we don't have "more" success coming out of a TO. The problem is that no one can state anything concrete, by the way of numbers, efficiency, or comparison to any other team in the nation, on what that rate of success is.

Each and every year it turns into a tiresome pissing match where people parse statements, throw out suppositions, and bitch and moan.

Thus, same argument, different day.
 

Is it that Tubby does a poor job of setting up a play? Or is it that the players don't execute the play correctly?
 

Or that the other team's defense disrupts the plan? There's way more to this than blaming Tubby.
 

mplarson7 said:
Or that the other team's defense disrupts the plan? There's way more to this than blaming Tubby.
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Truth. It's almost as if things like these have complicated factors that make it nearly impossible to pin down on any one issue. Weird, eh?
 

Yeah, a lot of you guys don't get my issue. Oh well.

I hope he calls timeout today and we score.
 


I think this is a lot to do about nothing.. I think Tubby's plays from under the basket after a timeout are usually pretty good, often we find a guy free for a quick layup or look. So which timeout situation plays are we talking about, or are we cherry picking times that don't work before halftime.. ignoring success of other times?

Regardless..great win! :)
 

Case in point....in the second to last possession of the game, we call a time out and Andre Hollins gets fouled and goes to the line. Last possession of the game we don't call a timeout and the ball gets tipped to the backcourt and we get bailed out on a foul on a half court shot at the buzzer!!! The whole point is you don't notice or at least comment when the timeout gets Andre to the foul line or when no timeout causes the ball to be tipped to the back court and we hardly get any shot at all. Unbelievable....if they would have called the timeout and they would have gotten the shot off they did from half court you would have been ripping Tubby for calling the timeout. He doesn't call a timeout and I hear crickets from you guys when we are heaving the ball from half court!!!
 

I don't keep a notebook full of these examples. I will admit we've been better thus far this year in the past. But I am fairly certain in prior years we've been quite autrocious out of timeouts.... I don't have nor do I care to research (because its not that big of a deal to me) imperical evidence to support my claim... I just know.
 

I am talking specifically about timeouts taken on the last possession of the first half. I feel like he takes them because he doesn't want to "lose" the timeout, when in actuality it is unnecessary to take a timeout and potentially counterproductive. Today was a prime example - we took a timeout to set up...a long, contested three by Austin? We could have gotten the same shot without a timeout. In the end, it's probably not a big deal - I was mostly looking to see if others noticed the same thing. It seems some have.

Ethomas - I've tried, but you clearly don't understand what I'm talking about.
 

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