Tubby as a Recruiter - How Good?

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BrewsterBooster

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So how good is Tubby at recruiting? Recruiting is getting good players who make a solid contribution to the program.

Better than Kundla?
Better than Fitch?
Better than Musselman?
Better than Dutcher?
Better than Haskins?
Better than Monson?
 

BrewsterBooster said:
So how good is Tubby at recruiting? Recruiting is getting good players who make a solid contribution to the program.

Better than Kundla?
Better than Fitch?
Better than Musselman?
Better than Dutcher?
Better than Haskins?
Better than Monson?[/QUOTE

Don't know
Not enough info
Not even close
Nope
Nope
Yes

It's hard to say how good he is. If I had to guess, I'd guess he's a great person to person recruiter who can close based on his character and persona. Trusted by parents. As far as effort and creativity, from an outsider's perspective he appears a tad bit lazy and reactive.
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BrewsterBooster said:
So how good is Tubby at recruiting? Recruiting is getting good players who make a solid contribution to the program.
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Is that your definition?? I think that has more to do with coaching and players improving under the coaching staff. As far as recruiting I think Tubby has done well as far as getting the players he goes after but at times settles. When recruiting, in most cases, nobody knows whether a player is going to make a solid contribution to the program or end up riding the bench for 4 years.
 

an indirect answer is who is his best recruit?

Rodney?
Trevor (2 yrs)
RS3?
someone who has not played for us yet?
 

THE Chitown Gopher said:
an indirect answer is who is his best recruit?

Rodney?
Trevor (2 yrs)
RS3?
someone who has not played for us yet?
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I don't think you can really count Trevor as a Tubby recruit...it seemed like he was coming back home no matter who was the coach (family, fiance, child, etc.).

Betty White could've been coaching our team, and Mbakwe would still be a Gopher IMO.
 


ShowinGoldyLove said:
I don't think you can really count Trevor as a Tubby recruit...it seemed like he was coming back home no matter who was the coach (family, fiance, child, etc.).

Betty White could've been coaching our team, and Mbakwe would still be a Gopher IMO.
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Once you throw qualifiers into the mix like this, it takes any sense of debate and crushes it and makes it all arbitrary. There are many recruits through the years that came to the U regardless of whether Betty White, Bea Arthur or Dutcher were coaching. So unless we're going to go player by player and pull them out because they were coming here regardless, we just have to give each coach the benefit of the doubt for the guys they signed and go from there.

IMO, Tubby's issues aren't "recruiting" per se, as much as they are developing and/or keeping guys here. We didn't land hardly any out of state Top 100 kids under Clem in the ten years he was here (Vo, Q, Courtney and Chuck T may be the exception; Bobby is a juco so he doesn't count in Top 100 HS lists, but the out of state recruiting isn't dripping with Top 100 kids) whereas Tubby has brought in some solid Top 100 out of state kids already: Devoe, RS3, Hollins, etc. If we had kept and developed the core group of guys that Tubby signed, I am not sure if we'd be in the "sky is falling" mode that we're in now. A comparison of developing players though, Clem v. Tubby would be a landslide victory for Clem, if the first four seasons are the comparison.

Go Gophers!!
 

I'd echo Bleed's statements. I would say that Clem got us to a final four..however, I was shocked at how poorly he could sell that aspect to land a solid recruit after. I think Tubby blows Clem away in terms of recruiting. Clem, as Bleed has pointed out, is well ahead of Tubby in terms of development.
 

BleedGopher said:
Once you throw qualifiers into the mix like this, it takes any sense of debate and crushes it and makes it all arbitrary. There are many recruits through the years that came to the U regardless of whether Betty White, Bea Arthur or Dutcher were coaching. So unless we're going to go player by player and pull them out because they were coming here regardless, we just have to give each coach the benefit of the doubt for the guys they signed and go from there.

IMO, Tubby's issues aren't "recruiting" per se, as much as they are developing and/or keeping guys here. We didn't land hardly any out of state Top 100 kids under Clem in the ten years he was here (Vo, Q, Courtney and Chuck T may be the exception; Bobby is a juco so he doesn't count in Top 100 HS lists, but the out of state recruiting isn't dripping with Top 100 kids) whereas Tubby has brought in some solid Top 100 out of state kids already: Devoe, RS3, Hollins, etc. If we had kept and developed the core group of guys that Tubby signed, I am not sure if we'd be in the "sky is falling" mode that we're in now. A comparison of developing players though, Clem v. Tubby would be a landslide victory for Clem, if the first four seasons are the comparison.

Go Gophers!!
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You are right Bleed, I went back and looked at Clem and he was less impressive as a recuiter than I recalled. I will add Randy Carter and Arriel McDonald to your out of state list, but his recruiting overall was not as good as Tubby's thus far. It did seem like every year he was in the finals for a real big time guy and would miss. He was in the finals for Webber, Iverson, Fortson and others but coud not close the deal.
 

Now, obviously, everything I'm about to say is solely based on the general impression I get because I have no first hand knowledge of Tubby's recruiting techniques (as I'm sure most of us don't). I feel there are two poles on the recruiting-style spectrum, and Tubby represents one while the other is occupied by Calipari. If a recruit is looking for a good, honest coach to help mold him into a man then I believe Tubby is a fine recruiter. But, if he is wowed by a glitzy salesman then Tubby is probably not that effective. The coach Cal comparison is flawed, though, because they are recruiting to two different situations, but I do believe that Tubby is limited in the type of athlete that he can woo (which may be a positive...I don't know).

It's times like this that I'm glad FOT is banned...I just don't think I could handle another list of players that Tubby recruited to Kentucky.
 



ShowinGoldyLove said:
I don't think you can really count Trevor as a Tubby recruit...it seemed like he was coming back home no matter who was the coach (family, fiance, child, etc.).

Betty White could've been coaching our team, and Mbakwe would still be a Gopher IMO.
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Betty White couldn't nor wouldn't come to Minneapolis to coach the Gophers. She is Hot in Cleveland.
 


As Bleed pointed out, if we had a Senior Devoe, Junior Royce, and Junior Justin Cobbs coming back, we likely would not be talking about Tubby's recruiting right now. We'd be starting Sampson, Mbakwe, White, and Joseph with Andre Hollins competing with Cobbs for the PG spot and Iverson/Eliason/Austin Hollins off the bench. We'd likely be debating where the Gophers stand in relation to MSU and tOSU coming in to 2011-2012 season.

Obviously, that's not what the roster looks like, and the players that replaced the missing players are the biggest cause for concern with Tubby's recruiting. I certainly don't like the fact that we have 5 lightly regarded Spring recruits on our roster right now. I also don't like the fact that we have not been in a legitimate recruiting battle of any note since Cory Joseph and have not won one since Royce White. I do like that Tubby has landed every Minnesota kid he's wanted and he's been at a disadvantage that the state hasn't produced the talent it usually does in 2010, 2011, or what appears to be a down 2012.
 

Tubby's "recruiting" is fine, he's landed some really good players, has beaten out plenty of good schools for recruits, and has netted top 100 players almost each year. That's what I personally consider recruiting, getting good players to come to your school. I feel like he has done this. Now, some will include other aspects to recruiting, including player retention, development, etc. This is where things get a little hazy.

Some feel like none of his recruits have improved, which I say is ridiculous, but I'm not gonna argue this since a lot of it is kind of subjective. But the aspect that can't be denied is his ability thus far to retain his talent, whether it's his fault or not. I've said it numerous times, but that is what's holding this program back. Not his ability to bring good players in, but keeping them here. I feel like that aspect is gonna get much, much better as these next few years go by. I feel like he's recruiting more all-around kids, not just talent, who will accept his coaching, and be good reps for the U as well.
 



THe other aspect to consider is that he is recruiting players for HIS type of program. (the same could be said for Bo Ryan), We are not going to get the McDonald's all americans, but we will get some guys will will most likley stick around for 4 yrs, play good D and have a well above average Hoops IQ (Hollins, RS3).
 

1. It bothered me when I heardTubby say something this season like "What I do has worked for me in the past, so why change". That is the statement of a coach that is letting the game go by. The saying "Adopt or Die" comes to mind.

2. The off court problems of Royce White & Trevor have hurt more than anyone imagines.

3. Too many distractions from actually coaching; a) Off-court issues. b) one of Tubby's folks dying right at the start of this season. c) The time away spent working on his charities.

Getting back to point #1 above; Is Tubby really doing what he's always done? Is he working as hard? Is he as enthusiastic? Or has he gotten too comfortable?
Maybe this past season will be a wake-up call.
 

I'd say his recruiting there has been pretty good considering he had no Big Ten ties before going there. There hasn't been a whole lot of high major talent in your area the last few years but he's locked up the best guys in your state since he's been there. He's pulled top 100 talent from the south and canada.

I think your team is going to be really good next year with the additions of Hollins, Coleman and Welch. A better Rodney Williams and Austin Hollins, you guys have some freakish athletes. Your team has huge upside and it's the kind of athletic team that should be able to go deep in the ncaa tournament and win 25 plus games.
 

Clem had decent recruiting and success because under his leadership, the u of m program was shady. The players recieved a lot of under the table benefits. Primarily academic benefits but i would not be surprised if financial benefits were used in recruiting also...

Tubbys recruiting classes have been solid and that he has had trouble keeping players here and out of trouble.

If tubby were a shady coach, he could have had more success. If he woulda helped sweep royces troubles under the rug, provided nolen with unethical academic assistance, provided devoe, iverson, or any recruit financial assistance. The gophers would be having greater success.
But tubbys a stand up guy and with continued faith in being a good person who runs a positive program, success will come with time.
 

bga1 said:
You are right Bleed, I went back and looked at Clem and he was less impressive as a recuiter than I recalled. I will add Randy Carter and Arriel McDonald to your out of state list, but his recruiting overall was not as good as Tubby's thus far. It did seem like every year he was in the finals for a real big time guy and would miss. He was in the finals for Webber, Iverson, Fortson and others but coud not close the deal.
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I'd add Jayson Walton too. I think he was top 75.
 

I don't want anybody to short change Monson as a recruiter (not talking about his coaching ability here). He recruited 2 McDonalds All Americans in Rickert and Humphries (I don't care how they arrived on campus) and 4 of the best players during the Tubby era in Nolan, Hoffarber, Johnson, and Westbrook. If Tubby could do this I think we'd all be happy. Maybe this years class along with Mbakwe and possibly Rodney by the time he's a senior will look just as good.
 

If we give Monson credit for recruiting Nolen and Hoffarber and Johnson then Tubby must get credit for development of these players..... just sayin...
 

Mikie S said:
1. It bothered me when I heardTubby say something this season like "What I do has worked for me in the past, so why change". That is the statement of a coach that is letting the game go by. The saying "Adopt or Die" comes to mind.

2. The off court problems of Royce White & Trevor have hurt more than anyone imagines.

3. Too many distractions from actually coaching; a) Off-court issues. b) one of Tubby's folks dying right at the start of this season. c) The time away spent working on his charities.

Getting back to point #1 above; Is Tubby really doing what he's always done? Is he working as hard? Is he as enthusiastic? Or has he gotten too comfortable?
Maybe this past season will be a wake-up call.
Click to expand...

While last season sucked the big one...I am still willing to trust Tubby to right the ship. His track record is too good to just say "the game has passsed him by". I'm sure he looked back and said what happened? However, if you take a step back you realize that what happened was he had a top 15 team that went off the tracks once he lost both his point guards. Specifically Nolen. Nolen healthy all year this team is dancing and nobody is talking about this stuff. Perhaps Tubby said that he needed to add more depth at guard to prevent a melt down again..thats logical. However the team was very good when healthy...so why change everything or a lot. Yes, he needs to add more depth and change a few things but its not like we that far away from good things last year. Another year like this and I will start to wonder where we are headed, until then, last season is an anomoly in my book.
 

If we give Monson credit for recruiting Nolen and Hoffarber and Johnson then Tubby must get credit for development of these players..... just sayin...

You're right about Tubby getting the credit for developing these players but as far as a recruiter, I haven't seen enough from Tubby to say that he is better than Monson, Clem, or any other coach we've had here. It must be the lack of a practice facility.
 

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