Troy Stoudermire and a 5th year

EE_Gopher

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I know that you can't have played more than four games to qualify and they have to be at the beginning of the season. I have confirmed that Troy only played the first four.

My question is I am under the assumption that getting a sixth year because of an injury is difficult (such as Royston), but that getting a fifth year (as in in Kirkwood) is pretty automatic.

Am I totally wrong on this?
 

I know that you can't have played more than four games to qualify and they have to be at the beginning of the season. I have confirmed that Troy only played the first four.

My question is I am under the assumption that getting a sixth year because of an injury is difficult (such as Royston), but that getting a fifth year (as in in Kirkwood) is pretty automatic.

Am I totally wrong on this?

Not sure how automatic the situation with Kirkwood actually was. I was under the impression that getting a 5th year medical waiver was a crapshoot and completely dependent on whomever reviews the situation at the NCAA offices.
 

I think getting a 5th year is easy if you have not redshirted yet. However playing in four games might be too many.
 

I'm not expecting it, but I'd like it if it happened. He was really engaged in that game, it's gotta be killing him to not be on the field in what could potentially be his last year.
 

Nate sandell commented on this on twitter when he got hurt at first. He thought it was unlikely. I think there may be a good chance he can get a medical redshirt. But, who knows. Would be helpful next year if its possible.
 


I think getting a 5th year is easy if you have not redshirted yet. However playing in four games might be too many.

Except 4 games is the max...so it's not too many.
 

My question is I am under the assumption that getting a sixth year because of an injury is difficult (such as Royston), but that getting a fifth year (as in in Kirkwood) is pretty automatic.

Am I totally wrong on this?

You're confusing different rules. A medical hardship waiver deals with injuries or illnesses that render a player incapable of competition after the player has already competed in a particular season. A hardship waiver provides a player with an additional year of competition.

Student-athletes are generally given four seasons of competition in a sport. A hardship waiver gives them an additional year to complete.

Student-athletes are also generally under a five-year clock under which to compete in those four seasons. The clock starts when a student enrolls full time (i.e., beginning of their [academic] freshman year of college). A waiver of the five-year rule grants another year of time in which to use the competition years available to the student-athlete.

In Kirkwood's case, he was a true freshman. As he was granted a hardship waiver, starting with 2011-12, he had four years on his clock remaining to compete in four additional seasons. The waiver was most certainly not automatic, but his five-year clock did not need to be addressed.

In Royston's case, he needed a waiver of the five-year rule as his clock had run out. An additional year on the five-year clock can be requested only after the five years have transpired. This waiver was not automatic either, but the waiver requested was quite different than Kirkwood's.

I believe Troy has never redshirted. In other words, this is his fourth season of competition and the fourth year on his clock. So, he has one more year on his five-year clock and may be a candidate for a hardship waiver which would allow him to compete for a fifth season in 2012-13 which would also be his fifth year on the five-year clock.

If he has played in only four games (played in a game means being in the game even for one second, but if I recall correctly he's not played at all since NDSU so he'd be at four), the key for Stoudermire being granted a medical hardship waiver is that he must be incapable of playing the rest of this season. It is not a team or player choice. The determination of him being incapable of competition for the rest of the year must be supported by the physicians in order to be considered by the conference. Kill & crew cannot simply decide to "save him for next year". It's now a medical question. If the docs were to deem him to be unable to play through the remainder of the season, there would appear to be an outstanding chance that he'd be granted a fifth year of competition.

In my article on the injury situation of Gopher basketball center Maurice Walker, I included a football calculation example on one unique piece of the requirements of a hardship waiver as I thought a question like this was likely to arise at some point. You can find that article HERE on GopherHole.
 

If he has played in only four games (played in a game means being in the game even for one second, but if I recall correctly he's not played at all since NDSU so he'd be at four), the key for Stoudermire being granted a medical hardship waiver is that he must be incapable of playing the rest of this season. It is not a team or player choice. The determination of him being incapable of competition for the rest of the year must be supported by the physicians in order to be considered by the conference. Kill & crew cannot simply decide to "save him for next year". It's now a medical question. If the docs were to deem him to be unable to play through the remainder of the season, there would appear to be an outstanding chance that he'd be granted a fifth year of competition.

How much wiggle room is there? How incapable of playing does he have to be? Totally incapable, or is just being a bad idea to play him enough?
 

How much wiggle room is there? How incapable of playing does he have to be? Totally incapable, or is just being a bad idea to play him enough?

It's somewhat subjective. What the doctors are saying is very important. Incapable doesn't mean you're wheelchair-bound or wearing a huge cast.

The docs that administer care provide documentation that is submitted along with the waiver request that establishes the "inability to compete". Two physicians can come to a different conclusion on whether a player can compete. You wouldn't want a program to play any games with the system, but a more 'conservative treatment plan' may be the best route to take if you'd like to try and get a student-athlete another year.

Hardship waivers are administered by the conferences, but if denied, the waiver can then be submitted to the NCAA Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement who can approve a waiver for an injury or illness whose circumstances are determined to warrant relief from the stated criteria.
 



If I remember correctly Troy was evaluated two weeks ago to see if he could play. It was only afterwards, that there was talk of a Medical Hardship Waiver, so I suspect that it will be relatively routine.
 

Warrior, isn't the cut off 30%? So if he appeared in 4 that would be over 30%? Where the talk is with Troy is that they may try and get the 5th yr arguing that he came out in the first series against NDSU and came out halfway through Miami game, so they'd just be hoping for some leniency? That was just my understanding, I may be completely wrong?
 

Warrior, isn't the cut off 30%? So if he appeared in 4 that would be over 30%? Where the talk is with Troy is that they may try and get the 5th yr arguing that he came out in the first series against NDSU and came out halfway through Miami game, so they'd just be hoping for some leniency? That was just my understanding, I may be completely wrong?

Yes, 30% is the max. No leniency required in this situation, though. Take a look at that Maurice Walker article I referenced earlier. In it you'll see the following paragraph (it essentially says that in NCAA Bylaw math, 4 games divided by 12 equals 30%):

J.B. Bauer article said:
Another worthwhile detail is that not all 30 percents are created equal. Dividing a student-athlete's games played by his team's total contests and comparing the resulting percentage to 30 percent is not appropriate. Rather, multiply the total contests by 30 percent and -- this is key -- round up to the nearest whole number. The result is the maximum number of games that are considered to be 30 percent of the team's games. For example, if a basketball team has 31 contests, ten games are considered to be 30 percent (31 * .30 = 9.3, round up to 10) and for a football team with twelve contests, four games are considered to be 30 percent (12 * .30 = 3.6, round up to 4).
 







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