Transfer rumors: Partially due to Tubby style?

ShowinGoldyLove

Active member
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
2,758
Reaction score
0
Points
36
There have been a bunch of rumors from some pretty decent sources (JohnnyGopher, Myron, etc.) about a number of players seriously thinking about transferring, and all sides say that it doesn't seem to be due to a lack of playing time, but instead chemistry/disconnect between the players and coaching staff.

I guess I have a question regarding Tubby's style; do you think his style the past year or so really rubs players the wrong way? One thing I've noticed with a number of our players is that their confidence level has fallen through the floor since they've been here. Now, that may be due to a number of different reasons (not hitting shots, their own insecurities, etc.). However, I have to think that it partially lies on Tubby/coaches.

I'm not insinuating he's a bad coach or his style is too old-school, but when someone makes one mistake in judgment (forced pass, missed defensive assigment, etc.), they seem to be yanked immediately. The problem with this is two-fold:

1) it makes everyone, including players like Bostick, Iverson, Williams, Carter, etc. really nervous out there. You simply can't play basketball scared like that, afraid to trust your instincts.

2) Even more importantly, it forces our team to often be TOO conservative when it comes to certain shots, passing, etc. because they're afraid that if they screw up a play, they'll be sitting on the bench.

I don't know what has happened, but especially this year, I've seen a sense of fear in our players that I haven't before, and it appears that very few, if anyone, has a lot of confidence in what they're doing out there.

Now I know many people on here will say, "too bad, suck it up," "be a man," "Tubby knows best," "I don't want weak minded players on my team anyway," etc. but I think it's bigger than that. It's kind of like last year with Kentucky, Billy Gillespie completely shredded the confidence of every Wildcat on that team, and they all played scared out of their minds. This year, although they've had an upgrade in talent, the same players that were on the team the past few years seem to be playing with a different sense of confidence because Calipari seems to give a longer leash with his players.

Anytime I hear all of these transfer rumors, especially when they aren't supposedly related to playing time, but instead a disconnect between the coaching staff and players, I really start wondering if the coaching staff should share some of the blame. Lord knows we've had enough drama with players not feeling like the coaching staff/administration had their backs this year, it only seems to be getting worse with the players actually on the team...

What does everyone think about Tubby's style and how it affects the players?
 

Tubby plays the guys who play hard and make good decisions. Early in the year, we had the luxury of depth, so you can play the hot hand and run with it, and pull the guys that are making mistakes. Now, we have a core group of guys playing 30+ minutes every night, and I don't see guys getting pulled the way you describe, at least the guys that can play. Rodney is a freshman; he will get yanked sometimes when he messes up. Bostick is just flat out not what we expected. Iverson has struggled at times this year, even when given the chance to play. Carter is the one I would agree with you that he seems to play well enough consistently (on this team as least) to deserve a chance to play more.

The Calipari "giving his guys a longer leash" is not a fair comparison. He has 4 first-round draft picks in the starting lineup. Any coach would give those guys a long leash. Gillespie had nowhere near that talent, and neither does Tubby.
 

I noticed this nervousness or being scared on the court during the Penn State game. Cobbs and Botisck especially played scared, I counted numerous times where they passed up WIDE open shots or driving lanes.
 

life is now easy

These guys are learning for the first time that life is not easy. (typo in subject line) If they cannot take a coach riding them in practice, etc. they should move on. I also think its normal and unfortunately our beat writer decided to take it upon himself to blow the issue up. Not winning favors with the staff..thats for certain.

In the end, I doubt there will be a "wave" of transfers. However, its normal for top programs to have one guy transfer out now and then. Lets watch it play out before we go ape sh$t over this latest development.

If three or 4 guys transfer..then yes, its time to pause and evaluate what went wrong.
 

I think a lot of it is how Tubby has changed. When he became the coach here, he was probably different then than he is now. I remember him saying that he had to lift the guys up. He said said he tried not to be too overbearing on them as they come off of a 9 win season.

Now that he has been here for 3 years, I'm sure the Tubby of today is not the same Tubby of 3 years ago, so some of the kids may not be liking the new Tubby. Tubby at UK was pretty tough, no non-sense kinda coach. I'm sure he's the same at the U now. I think the players are just frustrated. At the end of the season, I'd be surprised if any actually left. There were numerous transfer rumors every year at UK that most never came to fruition.
 



It has bothered me a bit that Tubby has had such a short leash this year. Anytime Cobbs makes a poor pass or misses a D assignment he's going to the bench. As a player that would get real old after a while. Eventually you have to trust players to learn from their mistakes and to bounce back. In this day and age you need young guys to win. Tubby requires everyone to play like seniors IMO
 

He seems to let Devoe learn from his mistakes. Devoe is not getting pulled after a bad pass, etc. Cobbs is getting pulled because there is a better option.
 

Reminds Me Of 2002 UK Team

22-10 despite A-A Tay Prince and six or seven HS A-A on the roster. Lots of player dissatisfaction stemming from mid-season transfer of Marvin Stone to Louisville.

Ultimately 4 players left the team. HS A-A Rashaad Carruth, frosh PG Adam Chiles, HS A-A Jason Parker, and walk-on (ex-1 year scholarship recipient) Cory Sears.

UK landed good (Kelenna Azuibuike, Antwain Barbour) but not great (Bernard Cote, Brandon Stockton) recruits that year.

Far Tubby sentiment was widespread. Instead UK and Tubby went 32-4 (undefeated in SEC) with #1 AP poll and #1 NCAA seed in 2003.

Turmoil (2002) became triumph (2003).
 



Good Perspective

22-10 despite A-A Tay Prince and six or seven HS A-A on the roster. Lots of player dissatisfaction stemming from mid-season transfer of Marvin Stone to Louisville.

Ultimately 4 players left the team. HS A-A Rashaad Carruth, frosh PG Adam Chiles, HS A-A Jason Parker, and walk-on (ex-1 year scholarship recipient) Cory Sears.

UK landed good (Kelenna Azuibuike, Antwain Barbour) but not great (Bernard Cote, Brandon Stockton) recruits that year.

Far Tubby sentiment was widespread. Instead UK and Tubby went 32-4 (undefeated in SEC) with #1 AP poll and #1 NCAA seed in 2003.

Turmoil (2002) became triumph (2003).


Good stuff, FOT. Obviously, the teams are different in many ways, but Tubby is the same. He has been around this block before. At times though, it has appeared that Tubby has created a bit of "paralysis" in his players, almost Bobby Knight-like. They are so worried about not making a mistake that they can't play the game. Knight and Smith are not the same kind of coach at all, but they just may share that attribute.
 

Listen, Tubby had problems with transfers/legal trouble at UK and it was a yearly thing. Even in that 2003 team had Cliff Hawkins ineligible because of academics during the first semester. His ballyhooed recruiting class of 05 had Joe Crawford trying to transfer his freshman year and Randolph Morris wouldn't even return Tubby's phone calls when he made his decision to declare for the draft. His parents cited his lack of development as a player for why he decided to declare.

Tubby is a good coach and teacher but he has his flaws and faults. One of them is melding the individual talents and egos of a team full of kids with disparate backgrounds, experience and ability.
 

Listen, Tubby had problems with transfers/legal trouble at UK and it was a yearly thing. Even in that 2003 team had Cliff Hawkins ineligible because of academics during the first semester. His ballyhooed recruiting class of 05 had Joe Crawford trying to transfer his freshman year and Randolph Morris wouldn't even return Tubby's phone calls when he made his decision to declare for the draft. His parents cited his lack of development as a player for why he decided to declare.

Tubby is a good coach and teacher but he has his flaws and faults. One of them is melding the individual talents and egos of a team full of kids with disparate backgrounds, experience and ability.

EVERY coach has that. Rick Pitino had all sorts of transfers, legal issues, early departures at Louisville in the 2000's.

Joe Hall, Eddie Sutton, even Adolph Rupp had numerous players transfer from UK.
 

Listen, Tubby had problems with transfers/legal trouble at UK and it was a yearly thing. Even in that 2003 team had Cliff Hawkins ineligible because of academics during the first semester. His ballyhooed recruiting class of 05 had Joe Crawford trying to transfer his freshman year and Randolph Morris wouldn't even return Tubby's phone calls when he made his decision to declare for the draft. His parents cited his lack of development as a player for why he decided to declare.

Tubby is a good coach and teacher but he has his flaws and faults. One of them is melding the individual talents and egos of a team full of kids with disparate backgrounds, experience and ability.

Pitino's UK transfers:

Todd Bearup 1990-91 6-5 G Brigham Young
Jody Thompson 1990-91 6-5 G Pikeville
Carlos Toomer 1991-92 6-4 G St. Louis
Aminu Timberlake1992-93 6-9 F Southern Illinois
Rodrick Rhodes 1994-95 6-6 F Southern California
Jason Lathrem 1995-96 6-5 F Belmont College
Oliver Simmons 1996-97 6-8 F Florida State

Pitino won 1 NCAA, 2 SEC, and 5 SECT in 8 years at UK.

Tubby's UK transfers:

Myron Anthony 1998-99 6-7 F Texas Christian
Desmond Allison 1999-00 6-5 F/G Martin Methodist College
Michael Bradley 1999-00 6-10 C Villanova
Ryan Hogan 1999-00 6-3 G Iowa
Nate Knight 1999-00 6-8 F Brigham Young
Jason Parker 2000-01 6-8 F-C South Carolina
Rashaad Carruth 2001-02 6-3 G Oklahoma
Adam Chiles 2001-02 6-1 G Vincennes Junior College
Cory Sears 2001-02 6-6 F Union College
Marvin Stone 2001-02 6-10 F-C Louisville
Bernard Cote 2003-04 6-9 F Northwestern
Shagari Alleyne 2005-06 7-3 C Manhattan
Rekalin Sims 2005-06 6-8 F Fresno State
Adam Williams 2005-06 6-4 G Marshall

Tubby won 1 NCAA, 5 SEC, and 5 SECT in 10 years at UK.
 



14 transfers in 8 years? That's not positive.
 

All those transfers and Monson couldn't land any of them? That's surprising.
 

I will say this about Tubby and his staff. ... if the Gophers somehow land in the NCAA Tournament this season after all the negative mojo that has surrounded the program, he's done one he*l of a coaching job. I know it's still very much in reach (beginning tonight), but I just get the feeling from player comments (too much talking about guys that aren't playing) that it's just not gonna' happen. It's one of those seasons where you kind of look for the players to take an "us against the world" type of attitude, but I don't get that vibe at all. More of the opposite. ... a fractured team & harping on things they can't control.
 

At this point, Tubby doesn't have to prove anthing to me or anyone else. He has a track record and is a proven winner. The players? Not so much. If we don't make the tourney and the team unravels before our eyes because too many of them are bitching and moaning about the normal trials and tribulations of life...then I am fine with hitting the "reset" button and parting ways with anyone not on board after the year.

My guess is that cooler heads with prevail and we'll only have 1 transfer...which is about right for even programs that are on top. I think Iverson is the only player that really has not developed well under Tubby but he still is young and can be a good contributor. Bostick is just not a good fit but there was nothing wrong with taking a chance. We had 5 guys in his class..not all are going to work out. Carter has his moments. Devoe and RS III are improving each game and look to be very good players for years to come. There is no point in evaluating Williams and Cobbs..too early.

The world is not ending for Gopher fans. Remember, 4 of our next 5 are at the Barn!
 

Most of those transfers didn't go "up" or "over". Most went to smaller programs - the only way they would have the playing time they desired. As for the Gopher "team chemistry", IMO, Ralph gave us the insight. Too many - one is too many - have tried to take over and no one on this team has the ability to do that - yet. Perhaps more ego that talent at this point. Those players are looking elsewhere to place blame. Hopefully, Ralph is "right-on" and the guys are beginning to believe they need each other.

As for pulling players making mistakes and playing tight, what would you do if it's a very close game and you don't have your best, experienced players on the floor? They only needed a little time to catch their breath. Each possession is critical. What would you do?
 

I've always wondered how the starters feel when they open the game playing great, hitting their shots and pummeling the opponent, only to get pulled for the "B" team which promptly loses the lead.

That can't be good for chemistry.
 

Most of those transfers didn't go "up" or "over". Most went to smaller programs - the only way they would have the playing time they desired. As for the Gopher "team chemistry", IMO, Ralph gave us the insight. Too many - one is too many - have tried to take over and no one on this team has the ability to do that - yet. Perhaps more ego that talent at this point. Those players are looking elsewhere to place blame. Hopefully, Ralph is "right-on" and the guys are beginning to believe they need each other.

As for pulling players making mistakes and playing tight, what would you do if it's a very close game and you don't have your best, experienced players on the floor? They only needed a little time to catch their breath. Each possession is critical. What would you do?

There's no way to spin 14 transfers in 8 years. No matter where they are going it means you either have disenchanted players or you have made recruiting errors- recruited guys that couldn't make it at your level or within your style of play.
 


FOT,

You brought up a name that made me shake my head.

Wasn't Jason Parker one of the all-time busts in college basketball?

I know he had injury issues, but man did he fail to deliver.
 

Honestly, Tubby is old style and can rub some players the wrong way. If or not he can be as successful here with the style is yet to be seen, I feel. I am not sure we can afford to lose as many players -- assuming that the players in the rumor are good ones -- when we do not carry as much prestige as KU does. Then again, this season is, say, an aberration.

Due to the off-the-court issues, we do have a few players grumbling. To other players, they are funny, charming, personable teammates to feel empathetic about. That interpersonal dynamic may have a factor, who knows? And, the losses and the general sense of disappointment so far probably are putting some heat on the coaches, as well.

All in all, the buck stops there with Tubby. For his own sake, this thing about transfers hopefully withers away as we win more games at home, again hopefully.
 

FOT,

You brought up a name that made me shake my head.

Wasn't Jason Parker one of the all-time busts in college basketball?

I know he had injury issues, but man did he fail to deliver.

Yes, Jason Parker had "off court" issues at both UK and South Carolina. He failed 4 "tests" at UK.

He was injured at UK in 2001-02 but his issues were not the result of that injury. He last played at a JuCo in Florida but DNF there, either.

Parker was actually eligible to attend UNC (his first choice) in 1999 but UNC miscalculated his GPA (in honors classes from HS days) and denied his entry as a Non-Qualifier per NCAA Prop 48 rule.
 

Listen, Tubby had problems with transfers/legal trouble at UK and it was a yearly thing. Even in that 2003 team had Cliff Hawkins ineligible because of academics during the first semester. His ballyhooed recruiting class of 05 had Joe Crawford trying to transfer his freshman year and Randolph Morris wouldn't even return Tubby's phone calls when he made his decision to declare for the draft. His parents cited his lack of development as a player for why he decided to declare.

Tubby is a good coach and teacher but he has his flaws and faults. One of them is melding the individual talents and egos of a team full of kids with disparate backgrounds, experience and ability.

Likewise Adolph Rupp had many transfers from UK. The following list (39 in the 30 seasons listed) does not includes DOZENS MORE who transferred as freshmen at UK:

Adrian Back 1941-42 6-0 G Navy
Bruce Boehler 1941-42 5-11 G Bowling Green
Bill Hamm 1942-43 - F New Mexico State A&M
Clyde Parker 1942-43 6-0 G Louisville
Maurice Bell 1943-44 5-8 G Alabama
Truett DeMoisey 1943-44 6-5 F Ohio State
Glen Parker 1943-44 5-10 G Louisville
Don Whitehead 1943-44 6-0 F Bowling Green
Al Reynolds 1944-45 - F Michigan State
George Vulich 1944-45 6-8 C Long Island
Deward Compton 1945-46 6-5 C Louisville
Darrell Lorance 1945-46 6-1 F Missouri
Bob Brannum 1946-47 6-5 C Michigan State
Malcolm McMullen 1946-47 6-5 F/C Xavier
Albert Cummins 1947-48 5-10 G Michigan State
Joe Hall 1948-49 6-1 G Sewanee
Robert Henne 1948-49 6-1 G Utah State
Arlan King 1949-50 6-3 F Hanover College
Lindle Castle 1950-51 5-11 G Morehead
Guy Strong 1950-51 6-0 G Eastern Kentucky
Ronald Clark 1951-52 6-9 C/F Springfield College (MA)
Cliff Dwyer 1951-52 6-8 C Chipola Junior College
Houston Nutt 1951-52 6-1 F Oklahoma A&M
Dan Swartz 1951-52 6-4 C Morehead
Clay Evans 1953-54 5-9 G Morehead
Pete Grigsby 1953-54 5-10 G Kentucky Wesleyan
Bill Bibb 1954-55 6-4 F Kentucky Wesleyan
Linville Puckett 1954-55 6-0 G Kentucky Wesleyan
Howard Dardeen 1958-59 6-4 F Indiana State
Bobby Slusher 1958-59 6-4 F Cincinnati
Bernard Butts 1960-61 6-0 G Miami
Don Rolfes 1962-63 6-7 C Cincinnati
Mickey Gibson 1963-64 6-3 F UNC-Asheville
Bob Tallent 1966-67 6-1 G George Washington
Benny Spears 1967-68 6-3 G -
Greg Starrick 1968-69 6-2 G Southern Illinois
Randy Noll 1969-70 6-7 F Marshall
Steve Penhorwood 1970-71 6-4 G Xavier
Mark Soderberg 1970-71 6-10 C Utah

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Players/Morris_Randolph.html Randolph Morris got better every year at UK. Although not listed at the link, he made 1st team All-SEC in 2007.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Players/Crawford_Joe.html Likewise Joe Crawford got better every year at UK. He was frutrated with PT as a freshman guard playing behind Rajon Rondo and Patrick Sparks (at guard) and Kelenna Azubuike (at wing).
 




Top Bottom