There goes MSUs season

[From the Barn]

http://michiganmessenger.com/42253/msu-sexual-assault

Well, maybe not. But it won't be the last we hear of this either.

EAST LANSING — Documents obtained by Michigan Messenger show two high-profile Michigan State University basketball players have been accused of committing sexual assault on campus in August. Despite the allegations, prosecutors have declined to take up the case, and the victim disputes the reasons offered for not bringing charges.

 

[SelectionSunday]

That does not sound good. I'm sure the truth will come out eventually, but it does leave me wondering whether the two players involved are upperclassmen or newcomers to the program. Pretty much anyone connected with the MSU basketball program would have to be considered high-profile.

 

[Holy Man]

That does not sound good. I'm sure the truth will come out eventually, but it does leave me wondering whether the two players involved are upperclassmen or newcomers to the program. Pretty much anyone connected with the MSU basketball program would have to be considered high-profile.

I thought Izzo had purged the program of its problem children. I guess not. He could call Tubby for advice on how to handle distractions regarding criminal misconduct allegations. This is not good for the Spartans, and I expect those guys will get some punishment for the behavior, regardless of what the law does. Prosecuters office is smelling like manure here, and the circumstance will float around the program until something definitive and public is done about it.

 

[washgopher]

if this happened in MN, the entire squad would be in jail

 

[Holy Man]

if this happened in MN, the entire squad would be in jail

The thought crossed my mind, as well. At a minimum, it is front page news in a daily that the prosecuters dropped the case in shady circumstances.

 

[Swaggerson]

Oh My!

Wow...this whole thing stinks. I don't understand the lack of prosecution. The whole thing definitely went beyond where the gal was hoping it would. This thing is going to blow up...I expect to see some dismissals from the program.

One should never violate Tom Barnard's "One Weiner" rule.

 

[mnboiler]

I heard something about this earlier and somebody mentioned a the names, I can't remember exactly who but they were freshmen.

 

[matt]

I get the feeling that this is not as bad as it sounds. One of the players confirmed the witness' story and still no charges are filed? I'm not saying that it didn't happen, but I get the feeling this is getting blown out of proportion.

 

[playhosea!]

According to random anonymous internet sources, the two players involved are Appling and Payne, two very high-profile freshmen.

 

[OSUfan]

I get the feeling that this is not as bad as it sounds. One of the players confirmed the witness' story and still no charges are filed? I'm not saying that it didn't happen, but I get the feeling this is getting blown out of proportion.

Confirmed what witness' story? The player confirmed the victim's account for the most part.

Bad news for MSU. I don't have a clue how this is going to turn out. No criminal charges, but will civil charges be filed (and thereby put all the info in the public domain)? Will the university investigate/take action? What will Izzo do to the players? Many unknowns remain.

 

[From the Barn]

It is going to be hard for Izzo not to do something just based on the stupidity of the players putting themselves in this situation.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Different worlds...

Funny thing is, if this was a thread on this board about the same thing happening at Wisconsin, there would have already been at least a dozen Badger fans on here defending the guys that did it.

Frickin' creepy how much they hang around other teams' boards....

 

[Gopher Warrior]

We're probably not the right fans to be whining about an alleged situation in which there were no charges... although, was this the same evening as the Korie Lucious DUI?

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Let The Legal System Work

And I'd trust Izzo to do the right thing at the appropriate time.

 

[bga1]

I get the feeling that this is not as bad as it sounds. One of the players confirmed the witness' story and still no charges are filed? I'm not saying that it didn't happen, but I get the feeling this is getting blown out of proportion.

Boys will be boys eh? You'd think differently if she were your daughter or if perhaps you had one her age. This is awful.

 

[matt]

Boys will be boys eh? You'd think differently if she were your daughter or if perhaps you had one her age. This is awful.

All I am saying is that there is a reason no charges have been filed. People hear sexual assault and they just assume that someone was brutally raped. It is awfully early to be jumping to any conclusions.

 

[Gopher in Texas]

All I am saying is that there is a reason no charges have been filed. People hear sexual assault and they just assume that someone was brutally raped. It is awfully early to be jumping to any conclusions.

Article is pretty clear that no charges were filed because the prosecutors did not think they could get a conviction. Does not mean the players did not do what the victim claimed. One of the players agreed with her statements.

Hopefully she files a civil suit - just to take back control. Would think it better to change schools - going to be tough to stay at MSU.

Bad situation all around.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

Article is pretty clear that no charges were filed because the prosecutors did not think they could get a conviction. Does not mean the players did not do what the victim claimed. One of the players agreed with her statements.

Hopefully she files a civil suit - just to take back control. Would think it better to change schools - going to be tough to stay at MSU.

Bad situation all around.

Just curious.. what was your take on the Mbakwe felony charges?

 

[Gopher in Texas]

Just curious.. what was your take on the Mbakwe felony charges?

I think it was appropriate that he was charged (based on what I read about the case).

I do not know if he was guilty or not. As far as I know, he has been a model citizen at the U. Makes me think he probably was innocent (hard to believe someone that violent would not get in trouble again). I think Tubby (and Izzo) would not allow him on the team if they knew he was guilty. Which is fine with me.

Trevor was punished - unfairly, if he was innocent. The victim appears to be satisfied - someone cared about what happened to her and did something about it.

 

[KSBGopher]

In Minnesota, this story hits like the Titanic into an iceberg.

In East Lansing, two ships just pass in the night.

Different cities with different stakes. Sad as it is, a lot of this is probably based on necessity and love of tradition. In a town of 50,000 and a city built around the college and its sports, who would want to take that down?

 

[NateDawgUM]

Different cities with different stakes. Sad as it is, a lot of this is probably based on necessity and love of tradition. In a town of 50,000 and a city built around the college and its sports, who would want to take that down?

East Lansing is a suburb of Lansing. The metro area has 500,000 people and is built around the Michigan State Government.

Obviously the Spartans are a huge deal in the Lansing area, but it's definitely not a podunk town that has nothing but the University.

 

[KSBGopher]

East Lansing is a suburb of Lansing. The metro area has 500,000 people and is built around the Michigan State Government.

Obviously the Spartans are a huge deal in the Lansing area, but it's definitely not a podunk town that has nothing but the University.

I guess what I said was a little ridiculous. But think about the alleged laptop theft by Royce being pursued throughout the better part of a year and this case which seemed to pop up and be resolved within a few months...it did go to the Ingham county DA's office who then proceeded to drop it (pop ~300-350k).

The main point I wanted to stress would be the different reaction if this happened at the U. I guess the only thing I could think of was the fact that the Lansing area is smaller and the people of Lansing absolutely love the Spartans. I would love to hear more reasons other than the case "requires the evidence of force" when it is accompanied with a corroborated story of men blocking doors and not allowing a girl to leave a room.

 

[Justinc882]

As (i think) the only spartan that posts here occasionally I'd like to bring this to you guys. Stuart Dunnings the DA released a statement today saying that his office investigated this and that they came to the conclusion that no crime had been committed. As to the player corroborating the claim was no true.

http://spartannation.com/?p=14330

 

[Gopher in Texas]

As (i think) the only spartan that posts here occasionally I'd like to bring this to you guys. Stuart Dunnings the DA released a statement today saying that his office investigated this and that they came to the conclusion that no crime had been committed. As to the player corroborating the claim was no true.

http://spartannation.com/?p=14330

Thanks - makes more sense. Forgot cardinal rule to not believe everything that is posted on the internet or in a newspaper.

 

[Mulligan]

I guess what I said was a little ridiculous. But think about the alleged laptop theft by Royce being pursued throughout the better part of a year and this case which seemed to pop up and be resolved within a few months...it did go to the Ingham county DA's office who then proceeded to drop it (pop ~300-350k).

The main point I wanted to stress would be the different reaction if this happened at the U. I guess the only thing I could think of was the fact that the Lansing area is smaller and the people of Lansing absolutely love the Spartans. I would love to hear more reasons other than the case "requires the evidence of force" when it is accompanied with a corroborated story of men blocking doors and not allowing a girl to leave a room.

We don't know everything about the MS case; just as we don't know everything that went on with White. If this had happened at the U, Hennepin County would have handled the prosecution. Not the U. Really looking forward to a season of players getting in trouble all over the Big Ten, and having people still whining about how our priorities are all screwed up because poor Royce couldn't play. Over the years the legal system seems to function pretty much the same in all Big Ten places although many people here seem to be in two different camps. One, we're morally superior, especially to Wisconsin and Iowa. Or on the opposite side, if we weren't such liberal pussies, we could win more games because it's just guys being guys.

 

[KSBGopher]

We don't know everything about the MS case; just as we don't know everything that went on with White. If this had happened at the U, Hennepin County would have handled the prosecution. Not the U. Really looking forward to a season of players getting in trouble all over the Big Ten, and having people still whining about how our priorities are all screwed up because poor Royce couldn't play. Over the years the legal system seems to function pretty much the same in all Big Ten places although many people here seem to be in two different camps. One, we're morally superior, especially to Wisconsin and Iowa. Or on the opposite side, if we weren't such liberal pussies, we could win more games because it's just guys being guys.

To address your post: A) no one ever claimed the U would handle such a case. That would be absolutely absurd. The alleged laptop theft was referred to the city of Minneapolis' attorneys - the only part the U played in the case was responding to the complaint.

B) Legal systems vary in a great degree from state-to-state. So if your argument is that all the BT schools have a similar legal system, your argument isn't only wrong but ridiculously uninformed.

C) I was not arguing on a moral ground. I was arguing on a ground more aligned with common sense. Rape victims are less likely to report the issue due to embarrassment and shame. The fact that this woman went forward to file a complaint should give her some kind of legitimacy regardless of your political alignment.

No matter what this was in response to, I certainly hope you did not get a political vibe from my comment. It was meant merely to establish that a recent case relating to a case within the U of M was handled quite differently than this case was. Regardless of the facts the police have at hand, this should have been investigated further. I read the articles released (by Ingraham county as well as the Michigan Messenger) and am convinced that this should be looked into further.

 

[MinneMike]

The investigative report is fairly disgusting, as one would expect. One of the two players collaborated the victim's account but both sexually assaulted her. Remarkably it appears there will not be any legal charged filed.

 

[matt]

The investigative report is fairly disgusting, as one would expect. One of the two players collaborated the victim's account but both sexually assaulted her. Remarkably it appears there will not be any legal charged filed.

Have you read the official report?

 

[Mulligan]

B) Legal systems vary in a great degree from state-to-state. So if your argument is that all the BT schools have a similar legal system, your argument isn't only wrong but ridiculously uninformed.

C) I was not arguing on a moral ground. I was arguing on a ground more aligned with common sense. Rape victims are less likely to report the issue due to embarrassment and shame. The fact that this woman went forward to file a complaint should give her some kind of legitimacy regardless of your political alignment.

No matter what this was in response to, I certainly hope you did not get a political vibe from my comment. It was meant merely to establish that a recent case relating to a case within the U of M was handled quite differently than this case was. Regardless of the facts the police have at hand, this should have been investigated further. I read the articles released (by Ingraham county as well as the Michigan Messenger) and am convinced that this should be looked into further.

Well, here we go.

Regarding B. Not a legal mind, but do you really believe laws regarding sexual assault are that different from place to place? How about the system after the complaint? Police investigate using pretty much a common protocol. They then file a report. The prosecutor reads the report, investigates further, and then makes a decision to proceed. If he proceeds, then it moves into the courts. Just because one person might have made a questionable decision, doesn't mean legal systems don't work basically the same way.

Regarding C. I also read the stories and on the surface, yes, I think the prosecutor screwed up based on what I read. But we don't know everything even if we read a couple of articles. If the prosecutor did screw up, this isn't over. It'll be interesting to see what happens regarding not only what the DA's office does, what Izzo does, but if there's civil action.

Regarding Royce. At MS the police weren't looking for other people and it seems that at least one of the people investigated was pretty forthcoming. If the police weren't leaning on somebody for more information just how should it have been investigated further? Stupid to compare a laptop theft investigation that lasted months and a rape investigation wrapped up in days and then draw all sorts of conclusions from them. Just because the more serious crime was cleared in a shorter time means nothing.

Well, we're back in the football game. Deserves my full attention.

 

[KSBGopher]

Well, here we go.

Regarding B. Not a legal mind, but do you really believe laws regarding sexual assault are that different from place to place? How about the system after the complaint? Police investigate using pretty much a common protocol. They then file a report. The prosecutor reads the report, investigates further, and then makes a decision to proceed. If he proceeds, then it moves into the courts. Just because one person might have made a questionable decision, doesn't mean legal systems don't work basically the same way.

Regarding C. I also read the stories and on the surface, yes, I think the prosecutor screwed up based on what I read. But we don't know everything even if we read a couple of articles. If the prosecutor did screw up, this isn't over. It'll be interesting to see what happens regarding not only what the DA's office does, what Izzo does, but if there's civil action.

Regarding Royce. At MS the police weren't looking for other people and it seems that at least one of the people investigated was pretty forthcoming. If the police weren't leaning on somebody for more information just how should it have been investigated further? Stupid to compare a laptop theft investigation that lasted months and a rape investigation wrapped up in days and then draw all sorts of conclusions from them. Just because the more serious crime was cleared in a shorter time means nothing.

Well, we're back in the football game. Deserves my full attention.

This may not be what you are looking for, but yes the state laws regarding all sorts of sexual conduct vary from state-to-state. Federal law can dictate certain cases, but each states legislature and court decides what constitutes sexual assaults by enacting statutes or by the prior court decisions of the state. In egregious sexual assaults it will generally be the same, but the more specific and questionable the circumstances the more a judge or a prosecutor will have to examine the precedent of his or her specific state. I don't know much about police and state prosecution protocol, but I'll assume for the sake of argument that it is the same.

With regard to your comment: "just because the more serious crime was cleared in a short time means nothing." That may be the case in a lot of situations - perhaps where a person accuses another of murdering her parent when the person accused either did not exist or resides in another country and it is obvious that they could not have committed the crime. But in cases where, on the fact, the complaint is legitimate I think, as do most people, that a more serious crime should be investigated with more diligence than a less serious case. Would you want the police or state prosecution to spend the same amount of time on an alleged murder or an alleged rubber bander assault case?