The resurgence of the Big Ten; bad news for...

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

... the Wisconsin Badgers.

The Big Ten is on the rebound from one of the worst periods of basketball in recent decades. A strong case could be made that NOBODY benefitted more from this horrendous stretch than Bo Ryan and the Badgers.

Think about it. During Bo Ryan's tenure;

> Indiana Hoosiers - virtually irrelevant (Mike Davis? Yikes!)
> Michigan Wolverines - almost nonexistent (ditto on Tommy Amaker)
> Iowa Hawkeyes - definitely below the standards prior to the Alford regime
> Minnesota Gophers - Just now fully recovering (and prospering) from sanction purgatory (not to mention the Monson era)

Even Illinois had a number of years during Bo's time at Wisky where they were off the map.

This has had a two-fold effect on Wisky's success. The obvious is that the level of competition left the Badgers essentially duking it out with MSU, OSU, and at times Purdue and Illinois. Tons of easy wins on the schedule, never a problem to be selected to the NCAA Tournament.

More importantly, Bo's recruiting during this time was SIGNIFICANTLY easier when their closest rivals were in the toilet; Michigan, Iowa, Minnesota, and to an extent even Indiana. Beginning this year or next year, do you really see the likes of Tom Crean, John Beilein, or Tubby Smith losing many recruits to Becky?

How easy was it for Bo to pluck a few players out from under the noses of Amaker, Monson, Davis and Alford? With the current coaches at the Big Ten schools right now, do Kam Taylor, Krabbenhoft, Butch Davis, Devin Harris, Alando Tucker ALL end up going to Wisconsin to play for Bo?

Basketball is a game, unlike football, where one or two recruits CAN make a huge difference. Take one or two players a year over the last 6-8 years off Becky's roster and put them instead on a team like Michigan, Indiana, Minnesota and you're talking about a HUGE difference.

This is not to take anything away from Bo Ryan. He clearly is very good at taking what he has and putting a strong disciplined team on the floor. But for Bo, the Big Ten is just not going to be the easy pickings it's been during his time at Wisconsin up to this point.

The conference looks just loaded. At this point, it would be hard to put Wisconsin ahead of Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State, Minnesota, Purdue, Illinois. That makes them 7th at best and duking it out with Penn State, Northwestern, and a rapidly rebuilding Indiana for the best team in the bottom third of the conference.

 

[GVBadger]

The Badgers have never finished worse the 4th under Ryan. They return two senior guards that have won a ton of games and have a lot of experience in the front court returning.

They also have some young players in their second year in the program that will get a chance to prove they can play.

There are a lot of good players out there. Wisconsin always produces its fair share and the other programs can't take all the good players.

I wouldn't write them off quite yet.

I will agree that the Big Ten is very tough this year. There are going to be no easy games.

 

[Goph in Buckyland]

GV,

I dont think that he writing them off at all. WI still has as good of chance to make the NCAAs as anyone. However, I think he is saying that is more of an uphill climb than it was before.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

The Badgers have never finished worse the 4th under Ryan. They return two senior guards that have won a ton of games and have a lot of experience in the front court returning.

Yes, I'm sure what you're saying is true for the most part.

My point was, during pretty much the entire Bo Ryan era, "never finished worse than 4th under Ryan" unfortunately has amounted to something along the lines of being the best downhill skier in Guatemala. A handful of MAC teams during this time would have accomplished this in my opinion.

Plain and simple, a huge amount of Bo and Becky's success has been a function of the rest of the conference being just plain horrible. He's had virtually no competition ON the court and even more importantly, the competition OFF the court, in the way of recruiting, has been next to nothing as well.

I don't think it would be out of line to predict that Bo will never finish higher than 5th again in the conference. He's no spring chicken and it wouldn't surprise me if a few consecutive 7th-9th place finishes signals to him that perhaps it's time to take up golf.

Like I said, this isn't an indictment of Bo Ryan. He's done a fine job at Wisky during a VERY opportune time. It's just that the conference has collectively decided that it's time to start playing basketball again.

 

[Saber]

That's a pretty bold statement that he'll never finish above 5th again.. even if I hate Wisconsin, they run their painfully boring offense efficiently, and they play pretty good team defense.

But, I do think that without question, the Big 10 has the best collection of coaches of any conference in the country, and that can only lead to a sustained strengthening of the conference, the Badgers just need to step it up as all of your points are pretty valid, and the rest of the conference certainly is stepping up.

 

[UWOle]

... perhaps it's time to take up golf.
QUOTE]

Bo already plays plenty of golf. See the Vander Blue recruitment/debacle.

Hate to agree with Ogee, but I think UW is really going to struggle in the future. However, I think it begins in the 2010-11 season. For this season, I think the Badgers are under-rated. Two seniors guards with lots of wins and big games under their belts is a great place to start. They should have solid guard depth with two sophomore who have played some real minutes (albeit one more than the other). They should have much more versatility and depth up front to go along with the backcourt. They will have three junior starters, all of whom should be reasonably expected to make big jump in their production. Redshirt freshman Jared Berggren should be the legimate post presence they did not have have last season, and freshman forwards Ryan Evans (redshirt SF) and Mike Bruesewitz (PF) should be able to make spot contributions as necessary from the #9 and #10 positions. That's a lot of shoulds, but I will be very disappointed if UW is not a tournament team again this season.

Next season, the top six in the frontcourt will be back, but the only guards on the roster will be Jordan Taylor, Rob Wilson and true freshman Josh Gasser. That is why losing a talent like Blue is so costly. I like the frontcourt, but if there's little threat from the outside...

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

... perhaps it's time to take up golf.
QUOTE]

Bo already plays plenty of golf. See the Vander Blue recruitment/debacle.

Hate to agree with Ogee, but I think UW is really going to struggle in the future. However, I think it begins in the 2010-11 season. For this season, I think the Badgers are under-rated. Two seniors guards with lots of wins and big games under their belts is a great place to start..... That's a lot of shoulds, but I will be very disappointed if UW is not a tournament team again this season.

No doubt, the experience at guard will really help them this year. Teams usually don't go much further than the guard play takes them and the Badgers have a couple of good ones.

Like you said Ole, beginning with next year, the competition for recruits over the last year or so could really start to catch up with Wisconsin. The conference is just so damn deep, from top to bottom really. No easy nights this year, that's for sure. I think I'm most concerned about Michigan and Beilein; the style of play combined with the recruiting alure of Michigan, they're going to be really really tough in the coming years. Indiana is roaring back already as well, proving that they won't be down for long.

Again, it only takes losing one or two recruits that you were landing 4-6 years ago. I would venture to say that several years ago Blue would have been a Badger from the start and never considered anything else.

The upside is, it will be GREAT for the Big Ten to once again be considered one of the strongest conferences in hoops. It's been too long....

 

[Saber]

Beilein actually had a pretty well-known reputation as the favorite coach of all the other Big East schools because he always played a very tough non-conference schedule and always picked up some big wins against other conferences, but once they got into conference play, he played against teams that had seen his system in action and scouted it a lot and knew how to defend it.

His system is still pretty new right now, so he's doing very well in league play too... and to be fair, he's having much better success recruiting at Michigan than he did at WVU. Still, he didn't recruit either of his current stars, so I'm interested to see how his team performs next year when they're both gone. I'm sure they'll still be good, I just want to see how good.

In the meantime, I'll wish Michigan all the luck in the world in the non-conference and hope that our coaching staff watches a lot of game-tape on them to figure them out. And maybe more importantly, communicate to our kids how to defend it.

 

[Jim V2]

Thanks, Ole. ALways good to hear your perspective.

Not to pile on, but I think Ogee could have said more about Purdue. OBviously they had a nice team last year, and almost assuredly will this year too, but they'd been going through a tough stretch before that. The last years of Keady might not have been the last years if the team had been playing well. Compare that to the reputation they had in the nineties, when Haskins accurately pointed out that the route to the big ten bball championship goes through Indiana--and he was talking about both Indiana teams.


ANd Ogee--I don't know how you can say that about the Hoosiers. I distinctly remember MIke Davis reminding us once or twice that they were the fourth seed in the big ten.

 

[GVBadger]

Yes, I'm sure what you're saying is true for the most part.

My point was, during pretty much the entire Bo Ryan era, "never finished worse than 4th under Ryan" unfortunately has amounted to something along the lines of being the best downhill skier in Guatemala. A handful of MAC teams during this time would have accomplished this in my opinion.

Plain and simple, a huge amount of Bo and Becky's success has been a function of the rest of the conference being just plain horrible. He's had virtually no competition ON the court and even more importantly, the competition OFF the court, in the way of recruiting, has been next to nothing as well.

I don't think it would be out of line to predict that Bo will never finish higher than 5th again in the conference. He's no spring chicken and it wouldn't surprise me if a few consecutive 7th-9th place finishes signals to him that perhaps it's time to take up golf.

Like I said, this isn't an indictment of Bo Ryan. He's done a fine job at Wisky during a VERY opportune time. It's just that the conference has collectively decided that it's time to start playing basketball again.

Going to have to put this one in the file. It is going to go in the same file as the Wisconsin football program is in decline file.

 

[playhosea!]

thought

Given what is going on with Mbakwe, White, and Bostick, maybe now is not the best time to be dancing on the graves of other programs.

 

[Winnipegopher]

I hope so but I will wait and see. I think Wisconsin will do just fine and until they fall apart I will assume they will be a top 3 or 4 team in the Big Ten.

Question: If the situation was flipped and we had Bo Ryan and his success would you trade for a program that had a major scandle, 7 years of lousy coaching and two years of Tubby?

I wouldn't- fiinsh ahead of UW this year and make a run and we'll talk.