The Reaction to Gophers Loss to Illinois Seems Bizarre

DoubleAlum

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2014
Messages
803
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Can someone please shed some light on a few things for us?

Not counting Kill's first season, how many times have the Kill coached Gophers lost in a bona-fide upset (meaning a game where we were expected to win by 10 or more lets say)?

How many times have the Kill coached Gophers won in a bona-fide upset?

How many times was a Kill coached team "upset" badly while he coached at Northern and Southern Illinois, and how many times did they pull an amazing "upset"?

Name a great head coach who was never upset by a team they were highly favored to beat.

To my way of thinking, if Scoggins or Zulgad would write an article on topics such as these I'd be much more inclined to read their stuff. But when they write this inane material about "same old, same old" and "letting the fans down", I lose so much respect for them. I guess to write about something more interesting and thought provoking would require some research and analytical abilities, things in which they must be severely lacking for some reason.
 


Not to mention we were only favored by 3.5
 


Can someone please shed some light on a few things for us?

How many times was a Kill coached team "upset" badly while he coached at Northern and Southern Illinois?

Dunno. I recall Kill's last game at Northern Illinois... #24 NIU was a two and half touchdown favorite in the conference championship game. Choked and got beaten by a Miami (OH) team and their backup QB. If his team didn't get upset badly, he may not be here today. Strange how things work out sometimes.

Don't know what those gents wrote to get you riled up. For me, this wasn't a big surprise. Minnesota is a decent team who beat an awful Michigan team and survived two games they should have taken care of leading up to the Illini game. Ugly loss, no doubt, but the wild talk of Minnesota having turned the corner, college football playoffs, etc. was nutty.

I think during down years in the conference Kill can maybe* get you a winning B1G record here and there... but expecting anything more is unreasonable.
 


Yes, upsets happen in all sports all the time. But if you can't at least understand the extra pain of this one, you're intentionally looking the other way.

Minnesotans (I'll go broader than "Gopher fans") have seen this before. 6-0 then Michigan ... 7-1 then five losses and 55-0 ... win the jug then lose on a dropped punt snap ... beat Ohio State then lose to Indiana ... Mason meltdowns. The answer after all those losses: "same old Gophers."

We wanted to believe this was different. Some day it may be; maybe even this season. But I'm sorry -- starting 6-1, getting excited then losing to Illinois is a story we've seen many, many times. There's time this season to change the narrative, but many of us are back in "I'll believe it when I see it" mode.
 

Yes, upsets happen in all sports all the time. But if you can't at least understand the extra pain of this one, you're intentionally looking the other way.

Minnesotans (I'll go broader than "Gopher fans") have seen this before. 6-0 then Michigan ... 7-1 then five losses and 55-0 ... win the jug then lose on a dropped punt snap ... beat Ohio State then lose to Indiana ... Mason meltdowns. The answer after all those losses: "same old Gophers."

We wanted to believe this was different. Some day it may be; maybe even this season. But I'm sorry -- starting 6-1, getting excited then losing to Illinois is a story we've seen many, many times. There's time this season to change the narrative, but many of us are back in "I'll believe it when I see it" mode.

Let the season play out. A lot can change in 2-weeks. Our team is not as sharp as they were before the last bye, but can come out sharper from this bye. The pain is understandable, but it is the 'declaration' that all is lost and we suck now and that we can't win again that is so tiring. Worse is many of the same folks who are saying that now were talking about Indy a week ago. It is crazy how much folks overreact to a single game (win or lose).
 

Yes, upsets happen in all sports all the time. But if you can't at least understand the extra pain of this one, you're intentionally looking the other way.

Minnesotans (I'll go broader than "Gopher fans") have seen this before. 6-0 then Michigan ... 7-1 then five losses and 55-0 ... win the jug then lose on a dropped punt snap ... beat Ohio State then lose to Indiana ... Mason meltdowns. The answer after all those losses: "same old Gophers."

We wanted to believe this was different. Some day it may be; maybe even this season. But I'm sorry -- starting 6-1, getting excited then losing to Illinois is a story we've seen many, many times. There's time this season to change the narrative, but many of us are back in "I'll believe it when I see it" mode.

Agree. Also the Purdue game compounds this one because we were lucky to get out of that game with a W. Had we taken care of Purdue easily losing to Illinois wouldn't seem as concerning but the fact that in 3 straight games now we have struggled against very beatable teams it doesn't lead to going into those final 4 games with a lot of confidence considering we will be underdogs in most if not all of them.
 

Kill said we're "tired".

That's what I'm seeing.

Two gut-wrenchers will do that.

Let's rest up.
 



Dunno. I recall Kill's last game at Northern Illinois... #24 NIU was a two and half touchdown favorite in the conference championship game. Choked and got beaten by a Miami (OH) team and their backup QB. If his team didn't get upset badly, he may not be here today. Strange how things work out sometimes.

Don't know what those gents wrote to get you riled up. For me, this wasn't a big surprise. Minnesota is a decent team who beat an awful Michigan team and survived two games they should have taken care of leading up to the Illini game. Ugly loss, no doubt, but the wild talk of Minnesota having turned the corner, college football playoffs, etc. was nutty.

I think during down years in the conference Kill can maybe* get you a winning B1G record here and there... but expecting anything more is unreasonable.

See how easy that was. In two seconds you came up with a more interesting topic than Scoggins and Zulgad. What you brought up about the Miami of Ohio game would've been thought provoking. A lot better than " I guess they aren't that good after all is said and done". Maybe you should get a job as a sports writer for the Strib.
 

Yes, upsets happen in all sports all the time. But if you can't at least understand the extra pain of this one, you're intentionally looking the other way.

Minnesotans (I'll go broader than "Gopher fans") have seen this before. 6-0 then Michigan ... 7-1 then five losses and 55-0 ... win the jug then lose on a dropped punt snap ... beat Ohio State then lose to Indiana ... Mason meltdowns. The answer after all those losses: "same old Gophers."

We wanted to believe this was different. Some day it may be; maybe even this season. But I'm sorry -- starting 6-1, getting excited then losing to Illinois is a story we've seen many, many times. There's time this season to change the narrative, but many of us are back in "I'll believe it when I see it" mode.

You "wanted to believe this was different". Don't you see, this is all about what you wanted to believe rather than what was right in front of you. Did you not watch the non-conference, the NW game, the Purdue game? Did you think we were a great team capable of automatically beating Illinois? As Spoofin pointed out, we were 3.5 point favorites. Do the research. How often is a 3.5 point favorite upset? 20% of the time? 30% of the time? If you didn't realize there was a decent chance we were going to lose to one of NW, Purdue, Mich or ILL, then I submit your expectations were way out of balance. Who told you we were likely to go to a January 1 bowl game? Was it some random rubes on Gopherhole? It sure wasn't Jerry Kill, or Norwood Teague, or Tom Dienhart, or anyone else with any knowledge. So your "wanting to believe" was based on fantasy, not reality. Go Gophers and Go Jerry Kill.
 

The reaction isn't about one game. It's about how one game fit into the big picture. The more you win, the more excitement builds. The casual fans would have been talking about the Iowa game for two weeks. Now, interest will dip. Probably pretty significantly. If they beat Iowa, or better yet, if they beat them soundly, then OSU carries much more intrigue. When games that are bookmarked by fans as sure losses turn into wins, excitement goes through the roof. The opposite is true when a perceived win turns into a loss. I'll never forget walking in front of Stub and Herb's last year behind a couple of NU fans who were clearly dejected after losing last year, saying about the Gopher game, "This one was supposed to be the easy one!" Those guys were certainly steamed about getting upset in a game that they felt confident they would win. That squad rebounded and took down an SEC team in their backyard in their bowl. Either way, November was going to be the crossroads for the Gophers. Do they collapse or do they show some fight and beat somebody that they aren't supposed to?
 

The more you win, the more excitement builds. The casual fans would have been talking about the Iowa game for two weeks.

Why am I supposed to care about the casual fan that jumps on and off the bandwagon based on one game or even a few games? I'll be honest, I don't.
 



Why am I supposed to care about the casual fan that jumps on and off the bandwagon based on one game or even a few games? I'll be honest, I don't.
You don't have to care. But I think I can safely assume that the people who run this program want as many people talking Gopher football, buying tickets and buying merchandise as humanly possible. You want people to care one way or another. Apathy is not this program's friend, and it's been prevalent in this state for way too long.
 

Yes, upsets happen in all sports all the time. But if you can't at least understand the extra pain of this one, you're intentionally looking the other way.

Minnesotans (I'll go broader than "Gopher fans") have seen this before. 6-0 then Michigan ... 7-1 then five losses and 55-0 ... win the jug then lose on a dropped punt snap ... beat Ohio State then lose to Indiana ... Mason meltdowns. The answer after all those losses: "same old Gophers."

We wanted to believe this was different. Some day it may be; maybe even this season. But I'm sorry -- starting 6-1, getting excited then losing to Illinois is a story we've seen many, many times. There's time this season to change the narrative, but many of us are back in "I'll believe it when I see it" mode.

Post of the day!!!
 

You "wanted to believe this was different". Don't you see, this is all about what you wanted to believe rather than what was right in front of you. Did you not watch the non-conference, the NW game, the Purdue game? Did you think we were a great team capable of automatically beating Illinois? As Spoofin pointed out, we were 3.5 point favorites. Do the research. How often is a 3.5 point favorite upset? 20% of the time? 30% of the time? If you didn't realize there was a decent chance we were going to lose to one of NW, Purdue, Mich or ILL, then I submit your expectations were way out of balance. Who told you we were likely to go to a January 1 bowl game? Was it some random rubes on Gopherhole? It sure wasn't Jerry Kill, or Norwood Teague, or Tom Dienhart, or anyone else with any knowledge. So your "wanting to believe" was based on fantasy, not reality. Go Gophers and Go Jerry Kill.

That's probably true. In hindsight I feel like an idiot. Again. That's my point.
 

Why am I supposed to care about the casual fan that jumps on and off the bandwagon based on one game or even a few games? I'll be honest, I don't.

You may not.

But a lot of those casual fans are my friends, family and coworkers I see every day. It's a lot funner to be excited about a team when everyone around you is too. Plus if they had won they would probably be playing at 2:30 in two Saturdays, instead of 11.
 

We wanted to believe this was different. Some day it may be; maybe even this season. But I'm sorry -- starting 6-1, getting excited then losing to Illinois is a story we've seen many, many times. There's time this season to change the narrative, but many of us are back in "I'll believe it when I see it" mode.

We had 3 not very impressive wins over fodder teams. We got thumped by TCU. We beat up on a Michigan team that's basically a train wreck. Northwestern and Purdue were games decided by one or two plays. Illinois was decided by the fumble and the missed field goal.

Ya, we might have been 6-1 but I wonder how good we really are. Injuries in the line; a very inconsistent QB; and a defense that might be over-rated. When Northwestern went 97 yards for a TD that was an eye-opener for me. Really good defenses don't let that happen.

The Iowa game might settle it in my mind about this team. Very hopeful for a victory, but I just don't know what Gopher team we'll see. Hell of it is, Nebraska and Wisconsin seem to be getting on the right track, and at one point I really thought we'd split with them. But I am convinced the groundwork is still being laid properly--but maybe not as far along as I had thought. God, I'm already getting psyched for Iowa.
 

For me, I have been following Gopher fb since the Wacker years (I know that will cause anyone to have a negative attitude towards gopher fb). During that time, we never had any reason to get our hopes up as we were perennial cellar dwellers. However, starting with Mason, there was steady improvement with the program that lead to people getting excited. This excitement culminated in the 2003 Michigan game. A game I thought we had in the bag going into the 4th qtr. Most of you know what happened (for those that don't, look it up on the Internet). However, that loss was devastating. That was a game we should have won and gone onto the Rose Bowl. But alas, in typical gopher fashion, we blew the lead and did not go to the Rose Bowl. Then some years later we had the Wis. game, where there was no way to lose, except fumble the punt snap and have Wis. recover the fumble in the end zone. Guess what, in typical gopher fashion, that is exactly what happened. Then there was the Insight Bowl, where we were crushing Texas Tech going into half time. Then the second half starts, and in typical Gopher fashion, we blow our huge lead and lose the bowl game. Leading to Mason's termination.

Along comes Brewster. He has a rough first season, but hey, it is his first season so that should be expected. In his second season, we get off to a great start. Heading into our game against NW on Nov. 1, we are 8-1 with our only loss to OSU. NW was by no means a power house or great team. In fact, their starting qb was out, putting the odds even greater in MN's favor for a win. NW plays MN tough, but MN looks good. The game looks like it is going to end in a tie and go into OT, which should favor MN since they seemed to be the better team. However, in typical MN fashion, an Adam Weber pass deflects off Eric Decker's hands leading to an INT for a TD, leading to a NW victory. MN did not win another game that season. From there Brewster's tenure went into a tailspin leading to his termination.

Now under the Kill, he struggled mightily his first season. No big deal, this program was a dumpster fire when Kill took over. The second season, we saw marked improvement, with a 6 win season and a bowl appearance, which we lost. By all accounts, the season was a success. Last year we saw even greater improvement over 2012, with a record of 8-2 (the two losses to MICH and Iowa (trophy games)) heading into the game against Wis. We lost this game and did not notch another win for the rest of the season.

Now this year, we start off strong (albeit against a weak schedule), rattling off 6 six wins and one loss against a real team, i.e. TCU. Many people on here leading up to that game claimed we had a legitimate shot at winning and many on here were predicting a win. We get blown out and all of a sudden everyone is down playing how good we are. Many are making excuses that TCU is a really good team and we are young and that we really did not have a chance. Nevertheless, excitement was building going into the TCU game and that loss did reduce, but not deflate, the excitement for the Gophers as the Purdue game had great attendance. We then go on a nice winning streak, ending with a squeaker against Purdue (not a very good team based on its record). Although we beat Purdue it was an ugly win and causes concern for those of us that have watched these gophers for many years. However, it is a win and we are 6-1 creating lots of excitement among the gopher faithful and the casual fan (which the program desperately needs).

We go into Ill, a team by any measure is one, if not the worst fb team in the big 10. Minnesota coming in with its 6-1 record and a strong running game against a defense that cannot stop the run should handle this game no problem. Many people here expecting our backups to get plenty of reps in the 3rd qtr. due to MN's domination. However, in typical MN fashion, we struggle and with a lead in the dwindling minutes of the 4th qtr, Cobb coughs up the ball for a scope and score leading to MN's defeat.

So as you can tell, MN has been down this road many times before. Build up excitement, then have a huge let down that the program cannot recover from for the rest of the season, leading to apathy towards gopher fb. I am not predicting that it will happen again this season, but I will not be surprised if it does. I am also not saying that Kill cannot break the MN curse, but I am not willing to anoint him as MN's savior yet.

However, with this history, you should be able to understand that when MN loses a game it should, by any measure win, it creates frustration among some of us gopher fans. I will give Kill the benefit of the doubt to a certain point, but the longer he gets into his tenure, the less doubt I will give him. He is in year four, so my doubt level is dramatically less than year 1 and I would like to see us win the easy games. The man is making over 2 million a year, it is not too much to ask him to win the games he should.
 

Go away

You "wanted to believe this was different". Don't you see, this is all about what you wanted to believe rather than what was right in front of you. Did you not watch the non-conference, the NW game, the Purdue game? Did you think we were a great team capable of automatically beating Illinois? As Spoofin pointed out, we were 3.5 point favorites. Do the research. How often is a 3.5 point favorite upset? 20% of the time? 30% of the time? If you didn't realize there was a decent chance we were going to lose to one of NW, Purdue, Mich or ILL, then I submit your expectations were way out of balance. Who told you we were likely to go to a January 1 bowl game? Was it some random rubes on Gopherhole? It sure wasn't Jerry Kill, or Norwood Teague, or Tom Dienhart, or anyone else with any knowledge. So your "wanting to believe" was based on fantasy, not reality. Go Gophers and Go Jerry Kill.

So nobody should every have dreams, aspirations or hope? If my dad worked in a factory, I should expect to do so for the next 45 years and be grateful? If I "wanted to believe this was different" (my life) I'm an idiot? Shame on me for wanting more? That's your philosophy.

"based on fantasy, not reality" : have you EVER trusted in anyone? believed in anyone? ever in your life?
Because obviously you have never experienced success. You have also not experienced the heartache, the feeling that striving for success, striving to reach the top of the mountain, only to get punched in the mouth and pushed back. You don't know what feels like because you are too afraid to dream! You go through life moping around and expecting the sky to fall in.

Personally, I'm going to put my fricking tent back up. I going to climb back up that dang mountain and come November 8th I'm going to be convinced Minnesota claims the pig! I'm fully aware I might get bloody but I will never subscribe to your philosophy of believing my team can't win. You my friend are depressing! And if it took you two degrees to reach that philosophy, please get your money back or please try for a third because I believe there is still hope for you.
 

At the risk of sounding snarky - the team with the better athletes usually wins. MN fans (IMHO) have a regrettable tendency to over-rate their own players. Yes, the Gophs have shown improvement under Kill, and the overall athleticism of the team is better - but every power-5 conference team has good athletes. I don't want to re-open the star rating debate, but if you want to have a superior team, you need superior athletes, and the Gophers just don't have a lot of those caliber of players.

At their current stage of development, the Gophers need to play a very specific type of game to win - run the ball effectively, complete some passes, avoid turnovers, play solid defense, create some turnovers, and win the special-teams battle. When they turn the ball over, miss passes, and make the kind of mistakes they made against Illinois, it doesn't matter whether they're playing the best team or the worst team in the conference. When the Gophers can play a poor game and still win, then we can say the program has taken a step forward. They aren't there yet.
 

See how easy that was. In two seconds you came up with a more interesting topic than Scoggins and Zulgad. What you brought up about the Miami of Ohio game would've been thought provoking. A lot better than " I guess they aren't that good after all is said and done". Maybe you should get a job as a sports writer for the Strib.

Please don't feed his already monster ego. He also said this at the end:

I think during down years in the conference Kill can maybe* get you a winning B1G record here and there... but expecting anything more is unreasonable.

He hates Kill and shows up whenever things are down to rip him anyway he can. He is the first to pound his own chest when one of his predictions are correct and makes every excuse in the book when he is wrong.
 

These fools who write about sports should bother to follow college football.
Who did Illinois lose to that makes everyone to believe they are "terrible"? Washington (coached by Chris Peterson, one of the winningest coaches in the sport)?

Minnesota is their best win to date. But they haven't lost to a bad team.
Unless you believed Minnesota was one of the 15 best in the country, @ILL was always a game they could easily have lost.

These writers all fool themselves into thinking the B1G actually has any cupcakes. Yet, even Indiana beat the defending SEC East Champion.
 

These fools who write about sports should bother to follow college football.
Who did Illinois lose to that makes everyone to believe they are "terrible"? Washington (coached by Craig Peterson, one of the winningest coaches in the sport)?

Minnesota is their best win to date. But they haven't lost to a bad team.
Unless you believed Minnesota was one of the 15 best in the country, @ILL was always a game they could easily have lost.

These writers all fool themselves into thinking the B1G actually has any cupcakes. Yet, even Indiana beat the defending SEC East Champion.

The irony of your first paragraph is great.
 

Now that the dust has settled, a likely possibility is that Illinois is a better team than most thought - they're 4-4 and could be bowl-bound. Also, the Gophers were wildly over-hyped by BTN and others after struggling past NW and Purdue. We still don't have a Big Ten QB (Leidner, 40% Saturday - and can't really run, though he throws a good long ball) and that has to be addressed. Yet I feel Gophers would have won Saturday if Limey had showed the Illini something they didn't expect in the first half instead of running on almost every first down and having Cobb picking up 2 yards per carry for two quarters.
 

Now that the dust has settled, a likely possibility is that Illinois is a better team than most thought - they're 4-4 and could be bowl-bound. Also, the Gophers were wildly over-hyped by BTN and others after struggling past NW and Purdue. We still don't have a Big Ten QB (Leidner, 40% Saturday - and can't really run, though he throws a good long ball) and that has to be addressed. Yet I feel Gophers would have won Saturday if Limey had showed the Illini something they didn't expect in the first half instead of running on almost every first down and having Cobb picking up 2 yards per carry for two quarters.

How many posts were there calling Dienhart an idiot for ranking the individual units so low during the preseason after the Michigan victory?
 

You "wanted to believe this was different". Don't you see, this is all about what you wanted to believe rather than what was right in front of you. Did you not watch the non-conference, the NW game, the Purdue game? Did you think we were a great team capable of automatically beating Illinois? As Spoofin pointed out, we were 3.5 point favorites. Do the research. How often is a 3.5 point favorite upset? 20% of the time? 30% of the time? If you didn't realize there was a decent chance we were going to lose to one of NW, Purdue, Mich or ILL, then I submit your expectations were way out of balance. Who told you we were likely to go to a January 1 bowl game? Was it some random rubes on Gopherhole? It sure wasn't Jerry Kill, or Norwood Teague, or Tom Dienhart, or anyone else with any knowledge. So your "wanting to believe" was based on fantasy, not reality. Go Gophers and Go Jerry Kill.

Well said! Excellent post.
 


Saturday's game was NOTHING compared to the 1916 loss to Illinois. Gophers were favored by 49.5 points in some books. Zuppke brought
his Illini to Northrup Field and knocked off the Gophers, 14-9, costing us what everyone expected to be a National Title.

In CFB, you NEVER have the same team each week. That's the bottom line. You win some you shouldn't, and you lose some you
shouldn't. Illinois is now 4-4, so they aren't THAT bad. We are a very young team yet, and that means we're gonna be way up, and
way down. Without a solid and deep senior class, that's what you're gonna have.

This year's team never felt to me to be a division winner. A contender-yes- but too young in too many areas.

You are what your record says you are: 6-2, 3-1. We're on our way to a nice season. Perfect? No. Nice? Yes!
 

So nobody should every have dreams, aspirations or hope? If my dad worked in a factory, I should expect to do so for the next 45 years and be grateful? If I "wanted to believe this was different" (my life) I'm an idiot? Shame on me for wanting more? That's your philosophy.

"based on fantasy, not reality" : have you EVER trusted in anyone? believed in anyone? ever in your life?
Because obviously you have never experienced success. You have also not experienced the heartache, the feeling that striving for success, striving to reach the top of the mountain, only to get punched in the mouth and pushed back. You don't know what feels like because you are too afraid to dream! You go through life moping around and expecting the sky to fall in.

Personally, I'm going to put my fricking tent back up. I going to climb back up that dang mountain and come November 8th I'm going to be convinced Minnesota claims the pig! I'm fully aware I might get bloody but I will never subscribe to your philosophy of believing my team can't win. You my friend are depressing! And if it took you two degrees to reach that philosophy, please get your money back or please try for a third because I believe there is still hope for you.

Have dreams and aspirations for your own life. Stop putting your insane dreams and aspirations on a collegiate football team. That's delusional. You my friend seem very depressed and downtrodden and I feel for you. I'm happy as a clam with my life, my family, my friends, etc. I hope my alma mater has a winning season cause it's fun. Lots of fun. I love Jerry Kill and what he's doing at the school. I would never tell them they let me down. That's just so selfish. For you to call me names and disparage me like you did says to the world you are a very defeated, depressed and confused man who puts way too much meaning into a football team. These kids come and go in 4 or 5 years. They move on with their lives and build dreams and aspirations of their own, while you wait for the next group of kids to come along and fulfill your life with a winning season. Dare I remind you that this is about those kids, those coaches and the school. It's not about you. Grow up and leave these collegiate athletes alone and stop conveying to them and the world how disappointed these kids and coaches made you. Instead, tell them you're proud of them and thank them for their effort, for their sacrifices, for their talents and their great wins this season. This is about their hopes and dreams, not yours!
 




Top Bottom