The offense has to play a lot better

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EG#9

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I was surprised their wasn't the (almost) weekly thread on Limegrover after this game and that most people seem to focus on a "shaky" game by the defense and not on the offensive failures of the day. I found the offense to be both predictable and ineffective for the vast majority of the game. If your defense gets a stop with 6 minutes left in the game to preserve a 7 point lead and you take over on the 50 yard line...you need to put the game away. The Gophers had one effective run from Cobb for 11 yards, then did nothing and were forced to punt the ball back. The defense then stops Northwestern AGAIN, giving the Gophers the ball back needing just one first down to ice the game. The team failed a second time to put the game away and had to punt it back to the Wildcats giving them another chance to pull off another of their patented miracles against the Gophers.

Putting up 17 points, rushing for 3 yards a carry, and passing for 153 yards is not going to win many games. It was enough to get the job done today, but only because of outstanding special teams play and good defense. I am also concerned about David Cobb handling 30 very tough carries this week and the increased reluctance to put Williams/Kirkwood/Edwards in for a series to ease the burden on him a bit. I thought he was great today considering he rarely had any room to run, but 30 carries week and week out will see diminishing returns in the form of production or injury.

This is not to take away from the fact that this was a good win today and probably the best Leidner has looked throwing the ball in his career.
 

Give the NU defense some credit. Aside from TCU they are by far the best defense the Gophers have faced. Their DBs and LBs are as good if not better than the Gophers. Also the Gopher WRs are nothing special allowing the safeties to crowd the box.
 

EG#9 said:
I am also concerned about David Cobb handling 30 very tough carries this week and the increased reluctance to put Williams/Kirkwood/Edwards in for a series to ease the burden on him a bit. I thought he was great today considering he rarely had any room to run, but 30 carries week and week out will see diminishing returns in the form of production or injury.
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Agree. I've been wondering about this myself a lot lately. I mean Cobb's got 154 carries on the season (which puts him up amongst the nation's leaders), while Berkly Edwards has 19, Rodrick Williams Jr. has 14, and Donnell Kirkwood has all of 11, and when looking at that, all I can think is "Really???"

It's cool to ride your stud horse and all, but there's a real danger of riding him straight into the ground, especially a between the tackles runner who takes a pounding like Cobb does. We're going to (badly) need him to be as fresh and strong as possible when we face that four game gauntlet at the end of the season, so it's difficult for me to understand why the coaches won't give these other players some run. Depth at RB was supposed to be one of our strengths this season, but if that's true, we surely aren't taking advantage of it, and I don't know if that's because these other players are lacking in some way so far as blocking or receiving ability goes, or what exactly the deal is, but when the trio of them has 44 carries between them while Cobb has 150+, that just seems obviously and terribly askew, and it's also risky business, because I do not wish to see him get beat up and worn down when it's not necessary that he should have to carry virtually the entire load at RB. That's ridiculous in my opinion.
 

Everybody knew going into this game it was going to be a field position game with low points and not a lot of yards gained. I too would love if we had a more explosive offense but honestly our offense looked pretty dang good today. Leidner was hitting passes left and right and not just easy passes either. He hit some nice long outs that are not easy throws and that pass to Maxx was a thing of beauty. He had 2-3 passes dropped that hit receivers in the hands and then the one (yes ONLY ONE) horrible pass that got picked off. He went 10/15 for 150 some yards and ran in 2 touchdowns. This is exactly what we need of him every week and we will win a lot of games. NW was committed to stopping the run and Cobb still almost had 100 yards.

Yes it would have been nice for our offense to seal the deal in the end but to say "our offense needs to play a lot better" is a gross exaggeration. Our defense is one of the best in the big 10 and can win games for us too. Our offense just needs to do every week what they did this week.
 

EG#9 said:
I was surprised their wasn't the (almost) weekly thread on Limegrover after this game and that most people seem to focus on a "shaky" game by the defense and not on the offensive failures of the day. I found the offense to be both predictable and ineffective for the vast majority of the game. If your defense gets a stop with 6 minutes left in the game to preserve a 7 point lead and you take over on the 50 yard line...you need to put the game away. The Gophers had one effective run from Cobb for 11 yards, then did nothing and were forced to punt the ball back. The defense then stops Northwestern AGAIN, giving the Gophers the ball back needing just one first down to ice the game. The team failed a second time to put the game away and had to punt it back to the Wildcats giving them another chance to pull off another of their patented miracles against the Gophers.

Putting up 17 points, rushing for 3 yards a carry, and passing for 153 yards is not going to win many games. It was enough to get the job done today, but only because of outstanding special teams play and good defense. I am also concerned about David Cobb handling 30 very tough carries this week and the increased reluctance to put Williams/Kirkwood/Edwards in for a series to ease the burden on him a bit. I thought he was great today considering he rarely had any room to run, but 30 carries week and week out will see diminishing returns in the form of production or injury.

This is not to take away from the fact that this was a good win today and probably the best Leidner has looked throwing the ball in his career.
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You are right on the money. Our team is theoretically built to close out close games by running out the clock and failed on two chances yesterday. Play calling in the fourth quarter was not even vanilla. Too bland to be given a name. D Jones on a fly sweep once in a while might have been a nice compliment to Cobb up the gut over and over.
 


Yes, but as one of those guys who likes to point out the problems of over-conservatism on offense, I've tired of lamenting about it. Overall, it didn't seem that the play calling was excessively conservative the whole game, but as you pointed out, it sure was toward the end. On the other hand, they didn't turn the ball over, either. Clearly the staff was putting a lot of trust in the defense, which I found a bit odd considering that the D wasn't exactly stuffing the Northwestern O. So be it.

The Gophers are far from the only team whose offensive coaches go into a shell toward the end of a game holding a lead.

Interestingly enough, if you watched the TCU game, you had to wonder why Patterson wasn't trying very hard to shorten the gameclock, considering the big lead late in that game, and the way Baylor was moving the ball. I know they were trying to finish off the game with one more score, but they kept stopping the clock with pass incompletions instead of knocking off a couple of minutes of gameclock.

All things considered, I'm much more concerned with ultra-conservative playcalling in the bulk of the game, or when behind and needing a score, than at a point where knocking off some clock is also helpful and you have a defense you can trust. Ultraconservatism on offense at the end of a game with a lead was much worse during most of those Mason years, where it was clear that the defense had a low probability of making the necessary stop.
 

Seany said:
Agree. I've been wondering about this myself a lot lately. I mean Cobb's got 154 carries on the season (which puts him up amongst the nation's leaders), while Berkly Edwards has 19, Rodrick Williams Jr. has 14, and Donnell Kirkwood has all of 11, and when looking at that, all I can think is "Really???"

It's cool to ride your stud horse and all, but there's a real danger of riding him straight into the ground, especially a between the tackles runner who takes a pounding like Cobb does. We're going to (badly) need him to be as fresh and strong as possible when we face that four game gauntlet at the end of the season, so it's difficult for me to understand why the coaches won't give these other players some run. Depth at RB was supposed to be one of our strengths this season, but if that's true, we surely aren't taking advantage of it, and I don't know if that's because these other players are lacking in some way so far as blocking or receiving ability goes, or what exactly the deal is, but when the trio of them has 44 carries between them while Cobb has 150+, that just seems obviously and terribly askew, and it's also risky business, because I do not wish to see him get beat up and worn down when it's not necessary that he should have to carry virtually the entire load at RB. That's ridiculous in my opinion.
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Maybe if one of those other RB's started playing better we could give Cobb a break. Outside of our first game against EIU Edwards just hasn't looked good. Williams is averaging 3.5 yards per carry. Kirkwood just 2.2. The offensive line doesn't change when these guys come in, they just aren't nearly as good as Cobb. Hopefully against Purdue and Illinois there will be moments we can give him a breather, and then he'll have another bye week to get ready for those last 4 games.
 

Even when we win, we have skeptics. Right here on GopherHole. Amazing.
 

We averaged over 5 yards a play against a good defense. We just didn't have a lot of drives and plays on offense. I would have liked to see us be a little more aggressive, especially late, but I think the offense is getting better.
 



Dr.Don said:
Even when we win, we have skeptics. Right here on GopherHole. Amazing.
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it is ok to be happy about the win, love the gophers and also be skeptical about certain aspects of the team.

here is an interesting stat: the gophers have only out-gained two opponents this year. now, that is a stat in isolation and doesn't account for defensive and special teams yards -- which also count for victories. however, the offense is hit or miss and is the weak point for the gophers. some teams have a weakness at special teams or defense but they still win. i don't mind that the gophers are still developing at offense because they are strong enough in other aspects to make up for it. but that doesn't change the fact that the gophers have experienced some difficulties moving the ball at times. hopefully that is improving, i think that it is improving, but it's ok to point it out.
 

bigtenchamps1899 said:
it is ok to be happy about the win, love the gophers and also be skeptical about certain aspects of the team.

here is an interesting stat: the gophers have only out-gained two opponents this year. now, that is a stat in isolation and doesn't account for defensive and special teams yards -- which also count for victories. however, the offense is hit or miss and is the weak point for the gophers. some teams have a weakness at special teams or defense but they still win. i don't mind that the gophers are still developing at offense because they are strong enough in other aspects to make up for it. but that doesn't change the fact that the gophers have experienced some difficulties moving the ball at times. hopefully that is improving, i think that it is improving, but it's ok to point it out.
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Interesting stat, good nugget. Our special teams play has been huge this year. Mortell could be our 2nd or 3rd most valuable player so far this year.

Go Gophers!!
 


gopherMD said:
Give the NU defense some credit. Aside from TCU they are by far the best defense the Gophers have faced. Their DBs and LBs are as good if not better than the Gophers. Also the Gopher WRs are nothing special allowing the safeties to crowd the box.
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This ^^^
 




EG#9 said:
I was surprised their wasn't the (almost) weekly thread on Limegrover after this game and that most people seem to focus on a "shaky" game by the defense and not on the offensive failures of the day. I found the offense to be both predictable and ineffective for the vast majority of the game. If your defense gets a stop with 6 minutes left in the game to preserve a 7 point lead and you take over on the 50 yard line...you need to put the game away. The Gophers had one effective run from Cobb for 11 yards, then did nothing and were forced to punt the ball back. The defense then stops Northwestern AGAIN, giving the Gophers the ball back needing just one first down to ice the game. The team failed a second time to put the game away and had to punt it back to the Wildcats giving them another chance to pull off another of their patented miracles against the Gophers.

Putting up 17 points, rushing for 3 yards a carry, and passing for 153 yards is not going to win many games. It was enough to get the job done today, but only because of outstanding special teams play and good defense. I am also concerned about David Cobb handling 30 very tough carries this week and the increased reluctance to put Williams/Kirkwood/Edwards in for a series to ease the burden on him a bit. I thought he was great today considering he rarely had any room to run, but 30 carries week and week out will see diminishing returns in the form of production or injury.

This is not to take away from the fact that this was a good win today and probably the best Leidner has looked throwing the ball in his career.
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These are excellent points and I was thinking the same thing. Was really hoping Leidner was going to keep on that read option on the 2nd to last series. He would've walked for 10 yards. It was the absolute perfect time to be thinking about keeping it. Hadn't kept one in a long time. Great win though! Coaches coach to our strengths, and D is definitely a strength.
 

Dr.Don said:
Even when we win, we have skeptics. Right here on GopherHole. Amazing.
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It sounds more like b#&c@y housewifes nagging on their husbands who seem to ne'er do well no matter what.

Enjoy the victory! Go Gophers!
 

We are going to ride Cobb as long as we can. It would be foolish not to. He's the best RB we have and it really isn't close. Well worry about wear and tear later. Play to win today.

Leidner is gaining confidence and showing great accuracy the last two games. WRs are getting open and making catches, save a few drops. Jones is getting open and catching with his hands. Freuchte is making plays.

This team can beat anyone on the schedule right now. The coaches are playing to win this year, red shirts be damned. I'm excited for this team, they have a real chance to do great things.
 

I sincerely think Limey called a perfect game plan. The run wasn't working, but we plugged away at it enough to put ML7 (the worst qb in 40-years, I hear) in a position to throw 10-15 for more passing yards than we had running yards. It was beautiful. This is our best chance of success, but some can't or don't want to see that.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
We are going to ride Cobb as long as we can. It would be foolish not to. He's the best RB we have and it really isn't close. Well worry about wear and tear later. Play to win today.

Leidner is gaining confidence and showing great accuracy the last two games. WRs are getting open and making catches, save a few drops. Jones is getting open and catching with his hands. Freuchte is making plays.

This team can beat anyone on the schedule right now. The coaches are playing to win this year, red shirts be damned. I'm excited for this team, they have a real chance to do great things.
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I am certain that the passing game will improve game to game. We sometimes forget Leidner is a RS Sophomore as is still learning as the most experience signal caller.

The back ups and red shirts have time to develop if Leidner (& Streveler) are playing well. Hopefully, someone will be good enough to challenge for the starting spot should #1 & #2 falter through injury or slump next season.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
The infatuation with the jet sweep perplexes me.
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Chris (Luke Skywalker): You don't believe in the Force, do you?
Peter (Han Solo): Oh, you mean the thing you just found out about three hours ago and are now judging *me* for not believing in?
 

The offense has to play better, or....???

NW gave up 6 points to Penn St. On the road. And 14 last week to Wisconsin. We scored 24.

If you were expecting us to put up 400 yards of total offense and score 30+, I'm not sure what team you've been watching.
 

Spoofin said:
I sincerely think Limey called a perfect game plan. The run wasn't working, but we plugged away at it enough to put ML7 (the worst qb in 40-years, I hear) in a position to throw 10-15 for more passing yards than we had running yards. It was beautiful. This is our best chance of success, but some can't or don't want to see that.
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I'm happy about the win and the offense did what it needed to, but we really aren't asking Mitch to do much. 10-15, 153 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT. You could plug in basically any starting QB we've had in the last 40 years and they could replicate or exceed what Mitch has done.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
The infatuation with the jet sweep perplexes me.
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It shouldn't unless you never watch any team other than the Goph's. The fly sweep:

Gets more touches for the best athlete on the offense, D Jones.
Forces the D to defend the perimeter. See the Nebraska game last year. It helps open up the inside running game. A low risk way diversify the run game. Up the gut is not going to cut it the rest of the year unless we are doing something else to put stress on the D.
 

The Offense has made a lot of strides forward the last couple of weeks, particularly in the passing game. It just seems that they still are a bit slow when they try and run something a little "complicated". Wasn't it a "jet/fly sweep" that Edwards was running when he lost 5 yards? Could be they are either staying with what works and/or they just haven't looked good blocking for it in practice either.

Sweeps, screens and even big gains up the middle will be tough to get until defenses don't get to fill the box with players and or the O-Line gets real healthy. Just an opinion anyway.
 

John Galt said:
I'm happy about the win and the offense did what it needed to, but we really aren't asking Mitch to do much. 10-15, 153 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT. You could plug in basically any starting QB we've had in the last 40 years and they could replicate or exceed what Mitch has done.
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Now consider that, with our defense and special teams. Have we had a defense like this very often in the past 20 years? If we can field even an average passing game the rest of the season we should have a lot of success. That was the missing ingredient down the stretch last year. The only team that really scares me is Ohio State. If we had Nebraska at home I'd feel great about our chances. I don't want to get too excited but if the team continues to develop and learn from mistakes...
 

GophersInIowa said:
We averaged over 5 yards a play against a good defense. We just didn't have a lot of drives and plays on offense. I would have liked to see us be a little more aggressive, especially late, but I think the offense is getting better.
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...and our passing game 10 yards an attempt, which is outstanding. Bitch away, naysayers.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Now consider that, with our defense and special teams. Have we had a defense like this very often in the past 20 years? If we can field even an average passing game the rest of the season we should have a lot of success. That was the missing ingredient down the stretch last year. The only team that really scares me is Ohio State. If we had Nebraska at home I'd feel great about our chances. I don't want to get too excited but if the team continues to develop and learn from mistakes...
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If this team had Trevor Siemian at QB and a really good WR, I'd buy my tickets to Pasadena today...
 

Limegrover just isn't a very good play caller. He does have his moments and I thought for the most part yesterday he was pretty good. Our offense many times just won't be as aesthetically pleasing but I don't have a huge beef about yesterday. Our running attack was just average versus what it is most days good or Outstanding and we still win a game that was very fun to watch.
 

The most frustrating thing yesterday was where we would be in a formation that didn't have balance. Northwestern would load up our strong side, and then we would run strong side anyways.


The first drive of the game we were running weak side and picking up big chunks. After that it seemed like 90% of our runs were to the strong side (where we were out-numbered).

I don't have a problem running on first down every time. But I do have a problem running to the side of the field where they have us out numbered. We were formationing ourselves into situations where we wouldn't have very much success. Pretty disappointing IMO.
 

John Galt said:
If this team had Trevor Siemian at QB and a really good WR, I'd buy my tickets to Pasadena today...
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You should spend more time on the OT Board. When you are wrong over there fewer people know about it. When you post on the Football Board your ignorance is on display fore many more posters. Trevor Siemian is a redshirt senior and leidner is a redshirt sophomore. Siemian's QB Rating for his sophomore year was 115.8. Leidner's rating is currently 117.8. Does anyone doubt that it will be over 120 after the Purdue and Illinois games?
 

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