The Gophers' dropoff since the 1960s

Donate To GopherHole
frozengopher

frozengopher

Devious and Conniving Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
762
Reaction score
0
Points
16
...obviously has to do with the implementation of the Vikings as our pro team.

Last Rose Bowl - 1962 (1961 season)
First season of play by the Vikings - 1961

COINCIDENCE?!? I think not.

OK, so I really don't believe that. However, the MN-IA different directions thread got me thinking about how Iowa literally does not have a sports market outside of Hawkeye football (maybe a lil Iowa St., too), and we are at best in fourth place behind the Vikings, Twins, and Wild in regards to general interest by the population (probably Gopher hockey, too).

I think it's feasible that the team could be better without such a saturated sports market because kids might actually grow up having parents who imprint in their minds that Gopher athletics are really important. They would be seen as the only team representing the state, and people would more than likely take more pride in that.

Just another, "We're second fiddle" thread. Don't mind me.
 

I can see how having professional teams in town makes it tough to compete selling tickets but wonder what that has to do with hiring a coach and recruiting decent players? It's not as if the Gophers had to compete with the Vikings for players. It's not as if Madison and Green Bay are worlds apart. I would guess that a whole lot of rabid Packer fans are rapid Badger fans, and vice versa.

Even selling tickets shouldn't be that big of a disadvantage. We are a major league town because of the population. Save Northwestern, what Big 10 school is in a market any where near the size of the Twin Cities? There are many more potential ticket buyers here.
 

There is more to it than just the pro sports, in my opinion (although that has a lot to do with it). The new stadium is HUGE as an anchor got get alumni back to campus in the fall. The Metrodome was worthless as a college football stadium. I didn't attend the UofM but I have brought younger alumni to a couple different games already and both are looking for season tickets now. It was just so much fun for them to be back on campus. The weather hasn't even been that good. Just wait until a few more years go by and people get to enjoy some of those crisp, but not cold Saturday afternoons on campus. The other big elephant in the room is a winning team. Northwestern did it more than once over the past 15 years and they play in an environment much tougher than the Gophers. When that first Rose Bowl season arrives (hopefully in my lifetime... ) look out..
 

You are naive if you think the Gophers dropoff has nothing to do with the Vikings. I was extremely jacked up this morning when I heard about the new L.A. football stadium. When Zigi moves them to LA the Gophers will be at the top of the fall sports page once again. Like lemmings, people follow whatever is covered most in the news. Without the Vikings, it will be the Gophers. It has to be. It's not like they will fire all of the sports media because the Vikings leave town. With the increase in media attention, young kids will once again follow the Gophers instead of the Vikings. They will WANT to play for the top team in town once again. Kids like Seantral will not think the Gophers are second-rate anymore. They won't see as much USC in the news here as the Gophers. Things will finally change.
 

josh087 said:
You are naive if you think the Gophers dropoff has nothing to do with the Vikings. I was extremely jacked up this morning when I heard about the new L.A. football stadium. When Zigi moves them to LA the Gophers will be at the top of the fall sports page once again. Like lemmings, people follow whatever is covered most in the news. Without the Vikings, it will be the Gophers. It has to be. It's not like they will fire all of the sports media because the Vikings leave town. With the increase in media attention, young kids will once again follow the Gophers instead of the Vikings. They will WANT to play for the top team in town once again. Kids like Seantral will not think the Gophers are second-rate anymore. They won't see as much USC in the news here as the Gophers. Things will finally change.
Click to expand...

I've always wondered what would happen if the Vikes left town. I don't necessarily dislike them, but it sucks that a team that has actual, homegrown players from Minnesota who are trying their best to represent the state take a backseat to a team full of overpaid primadonnas. Sure, there are a lot of Vikes who are good guys, but does anyone honestly think they care about this state? It's all about the $$$. You can say that some of our Gophs don't care about the state either, and that may be true, but they aren't making money; theyre trying to get where they can. All they can do for now is defend is their pride. That pride has to be put into something other than themselves, and that is what the University of Minnesota represents. There's nothing I love more than watching MNF and seeing a former Goph as part of the starting lineup saying their name, and then saying, "The University of Minnesota." Might seem trite, but it makes me feel good, and damn proud of them.
 


josh087 said:
You are naive if you think the Gophers dropoff has nothing to do with the Vikings. I was extremely jacked up this morning when I heard about the new L.A. football stadium. When Zigi moves them to LA the Gophers will be at the top of the fall sports page once again. Like lemmings, people follow whatever is covered most in the news. Without the Vikings, it will be the Gophers. It has to be. It's not like they will fire all of the sports media because the Vikings leave town. With the increase in media attention, young kids will once again follow the Gophers instead of the Vikings. They will WANT to play for the top team in town once again. Kids like Seantral will not think the Gophers are second-rate anymore. They won't see as much USC in the news here as the Gophers. Things will finally change.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, but when I stop to think about it, I go to a couple Vikings games a year and they are fun. But I kinda hate those fans. You know the wildly overweight, wildly drunk, 2nd grade intelligence and understanding of football. If the Vikings did move, I'd be happy if those fans moved with them because I'd rather they didn't become Gopher fans. But I don't think it would be very likely, college football doesn't seem to appeal to that breed of person.... The media attention would be cool though.
 

frozengopher said:
There's nothing I love more than watching MNF and seeing a former Goph as part of the starting lineup saying their name, and then saying, "The University of Minnesota." Might seem trite, but it makes me feel good, and damn proud of them.
Click to expand...

I love hearing the "THE University of Minnesota." Prettay prettaaaay raw.
 

I think if the Vikings left town, the local papers would just up their coverage of the Packers rather than cover the Gophers. The Packer games would also become the "home" games for network TV on Sundays.
 

This is a football market but it's not a COLLEGE football market. There is a difference. If the Vikings were to leave town (which would be a shame) it would not necessarily equate to more rabid interest in the Gophers.
 



Two words: Malcolm Moos

That is why we're where we're at.
President of The U from '67 to '74. He was an elitist academic who thought that sports had no place in college and essentially tried to kill football by dramatically killing its budget & marketing.

Very simple.
 

Malcom Moos? 35 years ago? Really? Tell me you're joking.

So is Malcom Moos responsible for the NFL being the #1 sports attraction in every market that it is present? Is he responsible for the NFL being the #1 sports draw in America? Is he responsible for cities around the world pushing for NFL expansion?

In your mind, Malcom Moos must be one of the top 5 most influential people in the 20th century.

Wow.
 

josh087 said:
Malcom Moos? 35 years ago? Really? Tell me you're joking.

So is Malcom Moos responsible for the NFL being the #1 sports attraction in every market that it is present? Is he responsible for the NFL being the #1 sports draw in America? Is he responsible for cities around the world pushing for NFL expansion?

In your mind, Malcom Moos must be one of the top 5 most influential people in the 20th century.

Wow.
Click to expand...

Well, he did decimate the athletic budget, specifically football, but it's very debatable whether that's really still affecting the program. It certainly did in the late 70s and 80s
 




but it's very debatable whether that's really still affecting the program. It certainly did in the late 70s and 80s
Click to expand...

You said it yourself. That was a long time ago.

NW has won 3 BT titles in the last 15 years. I'm pretty sure we were better off than them in the 70s and 80s.

Jim Leavett started a program from literally nothing in the mid 90s and took them to a higher ranking than the Gophers have been in the last 42 years.

We all know where Wisconsin was 20 years ago.

I don't doubt that this affected the Gophers way back when, but don't even pretend to believe that this is among the top reasons we are where we are today.
 

Josh, its just my opinion as a long time Gophers fan, I'm not stating it as a fact or writing a disertation on it or anything.

Are you saying its because the Vikings moved into town 48 years ago?

I don't disagree that that was a factor. It is not simple. Its a lot of things. The Vikings (but there are other successful programs with pro teams), the dome (but there are other successful teams that play in sterile environments), the coaching carousel (other, more successful teams have had as much of a revolving door), the most stoic and pessimistic state in the union? (I'm not sure on this one?), maybe a university president who wanted to emulate the Ivy League and the University of Chicago and eliminate athletic scholarships 35 years ago? Nope, that didn't kill the program, but it was the clap that started the avalanche.

It is all of the above (and more).

But I truly believe that it started with Malcolm Moos. His appointment of Paul Geil as an AD ('71 to '89) without the adequate tools for the job had a strong influence too.
 

Minnesota is jinxed. We lost out on Bud Wilkinson and John Wooden. We've made some horrible hires over the years. Gutekinst had to be the worst with his 12 men on the field and 10 men on the field. In fact, that Ohio State game where we led 31-0 and lost was turned around (according to their qb) by us having too many men on the field during a punt. Anyway, I think many fans are so eager for a turnaround and now we see Brewster going downhill once again.
 

Regardless of if the Vikings moved in 48 years ago or 4, the NFL is the number one sport in America. By far. And it just so happens they play the same game at the same time during the year as Gopher Football.

Again, I didn't discount Moos as a factor back then. I agree with your statement - back then. But there have been plenty of teams that have turned things around both ways since the 70s.
And in today's environment, the number one thing holding the Gophers back from going to that next level is the Vikings.

It took a 6-0 start, a Friday night game on national TV, all during a Vikings bye week for us to actually sell out the dome for a Gopher football game. If that isn't proof enough I don't know what is.
 

josh087 said:
You said it yourself. That was a long time ago.

NW has won 3 BT titles in the last 15 years. I'm pretty sure we were better off than them in the 70s and 80s.

Jim Leavett started a program from literally nothing in the mid 90s and took them to a higher ranking than the Gophers have been in the last 42 years.

We all know where Wisconsin was 20 years ago.

I don't doubt that this affected the Gophers way back when, but don't even pretend to believe that this is among the top reasons we are where we are today.
Click to expand...

Hence my statement that it was debatable. My understanding of that statement was that it generally conveys a lack of belief in the underlying sentiment. Apologies if that didn't come through.

Truthfully, we've made less than stellar hires from a coaching perspective since Lou Holtz. The jury is still out on Brew; but I remain optimistic.
 

Haven't read any of this thread yet. I'm just gonna throw out "Integration of Southern Football" Don't call me the Loon or anything, but do you really think if a certain section of the US population would have been eligible to admitted to universities back then (near their homes, with full athletic scholarships) we would have any National Titles?
 

Me thinks...

There are a consortium of factors at work here. The Vikings entry to this market surely had an effect on Gold Country. Let me be clear, I believe this is Gold Country where Gopher Electric, Gopher Plumbing, and Gopher Towing get my first call. However, I also think there is a level of apathy among the citizenry and University of Minnesota alumni as well. I will place my bet on the fact that we likely have a disproportionately large number of alumni who are disinterested in sports, altogether (ice hockey included). The town, I have been told is... "more like a big Madison than a manageable Chicago." Obviously, that bodes well for the Vikings. Having grown up watching the Joe Salem, Lou Holtz, John Gutekunst, and Jim Wacker shows; I am honestly dumbfounded as to why Glen Mason (who DID BEAT EVERY CONFERENCE TEAM) never had his Saturday night show on Channel 5! Relegating the University of Minnesota to merely a Thursday night at Joe Sensor's in Roseville (where I have gone this season), is very disappointing.

Like it or not, THIS IS FLY-OVER COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I hope nobody takes this the wrong way because I am completely against it - but if there were still the level of racism in this country as there was in the early 1900's the Gophers might be #1. Agreed, that was a part of the Gophers success last century.
 

Swede said:
. Save Northwestern, what Big 10 school is in a market any where near the size of the Twin Cities? .
Click to expand...

Ohio State, but the only pro sport right in town for them in hockey.

As a Viking fan and a Gopher fan, seeing people hope for a Vikings move is pathetic. It's like a fat chick who hopes the pretty girl moves away so she can get some boy's attention.

Instead of hoping for the competition to go away, the Gophers need to get better. If they can string together a five or ten year run like the Badgers did in the 90s, they'll win the hearts of a generation of fans.
 

frozengopher said:
However, the MN-IA different directions thread got me thinking about how Iowa literally does not have a sports market outside of Hawkeye football (maybe a lil Iowa St., too).
Click to expand...

There are four major college basketball teams, three major college wrestling teams and two major college football teams in Iowa. To say nothing of ISU's womens basketball team that outdrew U of I's men's team the last two years. Not a saturated sports market? :rolleyes:
 

Gut Cassidy's comments are in line with mine. The ACC, SEC, and old SWC (now split between the Big 12 and SEC) weren't integrated until the mid-1960s. Murray Warmath did a great job of recruiting the South and East for top-notch African-American athletes. Once those guys started staying home, the Gopher talent base slipped more than a bit. I want to point out that wasn't limited to the Gophers, however. I think integration launched the SEC over the Big 10 as a conference over time.

I think the obsession with pro sports in general in this town and the uber-obsession with all things Vikings does hurt the Gophers. Pick up the sports section or listen to KFAN (I don't anymore). The Gophers are an afterthought at best as the commentators think it's more important to discuss the woeful Timberwolves, the woeful Wild more than the Gophers. The Twins and Vikings are good, but I think I'd rather listen to items about the Gophers as opposed to this player's hangnail or that player's constipation problems.

That probably entered into Maturi's thinking when he hired Brewster. Brewster has a lot of energy (some of it misplaced) and my guess is Maturi thought that would spark some interest. Instead, we hear the "same old, same old" comments from the sports' press in town (except for Sid, which is a different kind of "same old, same old" I guess) and nothing but derision aimed at Brewster and the Gophers. Brewster has done a good job recruiting and I hope he is around long enough to witness the fruits of his recruiting labors.
 

If you lived in FL like I do, you would realize that the pros are no competition to well-run college teams - the gators, seminoles and hurricanes are more popular here than any of the 3 pro teams - most of Minnesota's problems have been internal and we have no one to blame but ourselves...
 

SoMplsHawkI said:
There are four major college basketball teams, three major college wrestling teams and two major college football teams in Iowa. To say nothing of ISU's womens basketball team that outdrew U of I's men's team the last two years. Not a saturated sports market? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

If a women's hoops team outdraws a men's team you need to remove the men's team from the "major basketball team" list.

Are those fall sports in Iowa?
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom