The Discussion of Recruiting

[Buck the Fadgers]

Just thought I would share this. It is the Rivals Team rankings from 2007, which would be relevant to this season.

Top 5
1. Florida
2. USC
3. Tennessee
4. LSU <--- Only one they got right.
5. Texas

Others from the top 20
8. Notre Dame
9. Georgia
12. Michigan
16. Clemson
19. Miami
20. Illinois

I'll let you figure this one out for yourselves




p.s. do you think Rivals/Scout/ESPN give a sh!t about ranking a kid who's going to NIU? They have subscriptions to sell, and they aren't coming from NIU fans.

 

[GopherFan75]

Don't even try to convince me that recruiting rankings don't mean anything.

 

[Buck the Fadgers]

Don't even try to convince me that recruiting rankings don't mean anything.

They mean something, but It's not like people make it out to be. If you spend a lot of time on those sites like I have you see a trend. Knowing the kids offers is essentially doing the job for these scouts. What do you think about a kid that has a USC, FLA, LSU list, compared to one that has WISC, MN, ILL, SDSU, NDSU, NW offers. Pretty easy to see who gets where they are rated. Why do you think it takes them so long to come up with these ratings when they have footage from all through high school? Why don't you ever see kids in the top 100 with few confirmed offers? How many times have kids been bumped late in the process because they had late offers from good schools? (ex taylor lewan ) The player didn't change, maybe that Michigan offer did though.

 

[EG#9]

In general the recruiting rankings do a very good job of mirroring on field results over the long term. Minnesota's recruiting under Mason the final 2-3 years was in the bottom 2 of the Big Ten...did you see the product we put on the field in '06 and '07? The team that started out 0-5 in the Big Ten followed by the team that went 0-8? If the Gophers are consistently beating out Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois for recruits and finishing 5-7 in the conference recruting rankings they've got a shot. If the Gophers are back to the MAC specials, then people will still be talking about Music City Bowls as "accomplishments". By the way, Brewster's recruiting had fallen off considerably in his final '09 and so far in '10.

 

[TheManfromtheSouth]

Don't even try to convince me that recruiting rankings don't mean anything.

Recruiting rankings mean something if you have a quality coaching staff in place to develop the players.

When you don't, rankings mean nothing. Tim Brewster and Ron Zook prove that on a yearly basis.

If you have a good coach, rankings are somewhat of an afterthought. They find the players that fit their system and coach them up. Kirk Ferentz is a master at that.

 

[GopherGod]

Recruiting rankings mean something if you have a quality coaching staff in place to develop the players.

When you don't, rankings mean nothing. Tim Brewster and Ron Zook prove that on a yearly basis.

If you have a good coach, rankings are somewhat of an afterthought. They find the players that fit their system and coach them up. Kirk Ferentz is a master at that.

The only problem is the Big Ten is filled with coaches who know how to coach them up and also can recruit better talent to begin with. How do you suggest the gophers overcome that obstacle, should the fans bank on Kill outcoaching the likes of Tressel, Ferentz, etc. by such a large margin that the superior talent they have is negated. That sounds like a losing bet if ever there was one.

 

[EG#9]

Tim Brewster's first class of players are either going to be true Seniors or red shirt juniors next year. The guy failed here, but you have to manage expectations for recruits to some degree. You usually win with Juniors and Seniors, not Freshman and Sophomores.

 

[TheManfromtheSouth]

In general the recruiting rankings do a very good job of mirroring on field results over the long term. Minnesota's recruiting under Mason the final 2-3 years was in the bottom 2 of the Big Ten...did you see the product we put on the field in '06 and '07? The team that started out 0-5 in the Big Ten followed by the team that went 0-8? If the Gophers are consistently beating out Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois for recruits and finishing 5-7 in the conference recruting rankings they've got a shot. If the Gophers are back to the MAC specials, then people will still be talking about Music City Bowls as "accomplishments". By the way, Brewster's recruiting had fallen off considerably in his final '09 and so far in '10.

Brewster had one really good recruiting class - at least by the rankings. That was the 2008 class. They had seven 4-star recruits according to Rivals.com...

Keanon Cooper
Marqueis Gray
David Pittman
Sam Maresh
Vincent Hill
Traye Simmons
Brandon Green

Thus far, two of those players have been pretty good players (Gray and Cooper). Simmons was garbage. Pittman and Green were non-existent, Maresh doesn't go to Minnesota anymore, and I can't remember when Vincent Hill did something.

The following year, Michael Carter, Hayo Carpenter, and Hasan Lipscomb were 4-star recruits. How have they done?

Brewster didn't consistently get earth-shattering recruiting classes. They were markedly better than Mason's, but Brewster couldn't coach them up at all. If Kill coaches up the existing talent, they'll be fine...because they'll have success. When you have success, it's much easier to get people to buy into your program.

 

[Buck the Fadgers]

The only problem is the Big Ten is filled with coaches who know how to coach them up and also can recruit better talent to begin with. How do you suggest the gophers overcome that obstacle, should the fans bank on Kill outcoaching the likes of Tressel, Ferentz, etc. by such a large margin that the superior talent they have is negated. That sounds like a losing bet if ever there was one.

OH MAN WE DIDN'T HIRE A GUY WHO CAN OUT COACH JIM TRESSEL OR FERENTZ WHAT A SUPRISE. How the hell is anybody going to recruit right now? Brewster was a good recruiter and he had trouble, so why not get the ABSOLUTE best X&O guy that is willing to take the job.

Kill is a system guy. You know which style prospects are generally higher rated? You guessed it, pro-style prospects. Lamichael James ring a bell?

 

[TheManfromtheSouth]

The only problem is the Big Ten is filled with coaches who know how to coach them up and also can recruit better talent to begin with. How do you suggest the gophers overcome that obstacle, should the fans bank on Kill outcoaching the likes of Tressel, Ferentz, etc. by such a large margin that the superior talent they have is negated. That sounds like a losing bet if ever there was one.

Ferentz usually has recruiting classes ranked in the middle of the pack...yet he consistently produces teams in the top 20 in the country and occasionally plays in BCS Bowl games. You get players and coach them up...Mason even had the ability to beat the big time name programs from time to time. His teams beat Ferentz's teams. He found a way to beat Wisconsin. He beat Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State. It's not as difficult as it looks...provided you've got coaches who can coach.

Cripes - Ron Zook found a way to beat Ohio State. Purdue beat Ohio State last year.

 

[Buttcheeks McGaffigan]

I think recruiting is where we need to give Kill a shot. If he can coach and win some games and he puts a 100% effort he'll be able to bring in better players. That may only result in middle of the Big 10+2 ratings but a quality coach can do a lot with that type talent.

 

[Buck the Fadgers]

I think recruiting is where we need to give Kill a shot. If he can coach and win some games and he puts a 100% effort he'll be able to bring in better players. That may only result in middle of the Big 10+2 ratings but a quality coach can do a lot with that type talent.

I think that's what's so funny. Everyone says we need to give him a chance. Everyone is going to give him a chance in the end, and they know it. They are just in the anger stage right now, after passing through the denial stage. The only ones who really won't give him a chance aren't much of a fan. I couldn't imagine I would ever stop being a fan, that doesn't even enter my head.

 

[GopherOhana]

The only problem is the Big Ten is filled with coaches who know how to coach them up and also can recruit better talent to begin with. How do you suggest the gophers overcome that obstacle, should the fans bank on Kill outcoaching the likes of Tressel, Ferentz, etc. by such a large margin that the superior talent they have is negated. That sounds like a losing bet if ever there was one.

this. hesitant to think Kill will automagically figure out how to compete and recruit against the big boys in a short amount of time

 

[Buck the Fadgers]

this. hesitant to think Kill will automagically figure out how to compete and recruit against the big boys in a short amount of time

Do on-field results affect recruiting? Or am I looking at our class this year and seeing things?

 

[EG#9]

Ferentz usually has recruiting classes ranked in the middle of the pack...yet he consistently produces teams in the top 20 in the country and occasionally plays in BCS Bowl games. You get players and coach them up...Mason even had the ability to beat the big time name programs from time to time. His teams beat Ferentz's teams. He found a way to beat Wisconsin. He beat Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State. It's not as difficult as it looks...provided you've got coaches who can coach.

Cripes - Ron Zook found a way to beat Ohio State. Purdue beat Ohio State last year.

How do people come up with this? Glen Mason had an F'ing terrible record against Iowa and Wisconsin, well below .500. We were one of only two teams in the conference to not finish as high as 3rd place in the decade in which Mason coached here. He averaged 3 wins a season (Last 3 years with Brewsters guys:3,3,2). Beating Ohio State and Michigan one time a piece in ten years is some sort of feather in a guys cap? Iowa fans are devastated about going 4-4 in the conference this year and won a BCS bowl last year...Raise the bar around here...Please.

 

[calminnfan]

Recruiting rankings mean something if you have a quality coaching staff in place to develop the players.

When you don't, rankings mean nothing. Tim Brewster and Ron Zook prove that on a yearly basis.

If you have a good coach, rankings are somewhat of an afterthought. They find the players that fit their system and coach them up. Kirk Ferentz is a master at that.

Agreed.

 

[GopherGod]

Do on-field results affect recruiting? Or am I looking at our class this year and seeing things?

Sure they do, but how do you expect much in the area of on field results from a guy who hasn't shown the ability to recruit yet. He will be going against coaches just as solid or more so than him in the X and O department who can also recruit. You need athletes to win as well as the X and O's. That being said I will still renew my tickets and support him.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

The most important thing is winning.

Our recruiting can't be awful (or else we are in big trouble), but if our recruiting is in the middle of the Big 10 than we should be absolutely fine. Brewster was a good recruiter and he did a lot of things in the recruiting aspect, but his results absolutely tailed off because we weren't winning enough. If Kill comes here and makes a committment to recruit as well as he can, there is no reason to think that his recruiting results won't be solid.

If he isn't able to put in the requisite enough effort to make recruiting work, than we could be in trouble.

 

[TheManfromtheSouth]

How do people come up with this? Glen Mason had an F'ing terrible record against Iowa and Wisconsin, well below .500. We were one of only two teams in the conference to not finish as high as 3rd place in the decade in which Mason coached here. He averaged 3 wins a season (Last 3 years with Brewsters guys:3,3,2). Beating Ohio State and Michigan one time a piece in ten years is some sort of feather in a guys cap? Iowa fans are devastated about going 4-4 in the conference this year and won a BCS bowl last year...Raise the bar around here...Please.

You missed the entire point.

 

[EG#9]

Just for clarification, when I talk recruiting, I am talking about being 4-7 in the new Big 10(12) as being a solid result. There may be other posters who expect 1-3, but I don't think that's possible without achieving a BCS bowl first (unless we were able to hire someone like Tony Dungy who I think would have extreme appeal at any school). Where I don't want to be is those 8-12 slots where we are in(near) the bottom third of the conference, that severely limits your upside, and in most cases, no amount of "coaching 'em up" will allow a team to compete for a title.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Just for clarification, when I talk recruiting, I am talking about being 4-7 in the new Big 10(12) as being a solid result. There may be other posters who expect 1-3, but I don't think that's possible without achieving a BCS bowl first (unless we were able to hire someone like Tony Dungy who I think would have extreme appeal at any school). Where I don't want to be is those 8-12 slots where we are in(near) the bottom third of the conference, that severely limits your upside, and in most cases, no amount of "coaching 'em up" will allow a team to compete for a title.

I think it's fair to expect a coach to come and avoid the basement in recruiting most seasons. I also think it's important to realize that we shouldn't really be going off of Rivals rankings. I really think that's an odd way to rate a class because rivals essentially gives you almost as much kudos for quantity as it does quality. For instance, our 2008 class that was praised, was much more middle of the road when you looked at our "average star rankings" than it was when you calculated it into whatever formula rivals uses that takes into account quantity at such a rate.

What I hope for is for the team to be coached well and for us to finally get our roster under control. We can partially thank Brewster for that. Next season we will have a sort of realistic looking senior class and the next season will be about where every program should be (we haven't had that in 6 years).