The bigger concern

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bga1

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The Gophers played hard today and still go schooled- at home, by an average Purdue squad. Usually about now I would begin thinking that we will be lots better next year. Incoming recruits will fill the holes, the guys we will lose will be no loss,etc. The hard reality hits me today- We aren't going to be very good next year either:

The lights have gone on for Rodney. He's now a legit NBA talent- he's far from ready but I just have to believe he's outta here after this year and it's hard to blame him after what he saw happen to Mbakwe.

So I think we will be minus Ralph and Rodney. If Mo is healthy next year then Ralph is no loss. But Rodney is a big loss.

We remain unsettled at PG. Welch isn't it. Ahanmisi is a backup on an average team- he's not a starting Big Ten PG for a successful team. Andre is not a point guard yet- can he develop? We better hope so.

The incoming recruits may be fine. But they don't appear to be what this club is missing if descriptions are accurate. Buggs may help on defense but sounds like a guy who may be a year or two away. Ellenson sounds like an exact knockoff of Coleman- which is good but is it a fit?

I would think next year the starters may be:

Mo Walker
Welch
Andre Hollins
Coleman
Power forward TBD

I can't even think of who will start at the PF if Rodney leaves. Oto? Ingram? Buggs? Or does he go slow with two bigs- Walker and Elliason? (risky for foul and subsitution issues)

Is anybody here more optimistic about next year without Rodney?
 

Thanks beeg...you just took my current level of frustration to a whole new place, not a good one I may add.

The fact that your question is really valid makes me really wonder where this program will be in 2-3 years.
 

Your question is valid, but what if Trevor gets a 6th year?
 

zambam said:
Your question is valid, but what if Trevor gets a 6th year?
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I'll bet you $50 right now that Trevor doesn't come back, even if he gets a 6th year...and I'll give you 4:1 odds. Game?

PM me if interested.
 

ShowinGoldyLove said:
I'll bet you $50 right now that Trevor doesn't come back, even if he gets a 6th year...and I'll give you 4:1 odds. Game?

PM me if interested.
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Nah. I was just thinking of the only real possibility at PF. If Rodney leaves, I hope Tubby doesn't even CONSIDER a spring recruit unless it is a transfer.
 


Thanks, Beeg - just what I needed to to cap off the night! But it is reality...
 

zambam said:
If Rodney leaves, I hope Tubby doesn't even CONSIDER a spring recruit unless it is a transfer.
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Even if we get a transfer, they'd have to sit out a season per NCAA rules, so they couldn't play next year anyway.
 

The fact that your question is really valid makes me really wonder where this program will be in 2-3 years.[/QUOTE]

If Tubby is still here it will be right where it is now:
Racking up 10 pre conference wins with the cupcakes, finish .500 at best in the Big Ten, sweat it out for a NCAA birth and lose
on the first weekend if you get one. Listen to Tubby say that next year he wants to "get out and run"
Rinse and repeat
 

ShowinGoldyLove said:
Even if we get a transfer, they'd have to sit out a season per NCAA rules, so they couldn't play next year anyway.
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Unless they use the rule Russel Wilson did. Either way, it's not going to be a normal spring recruit.
 



zambam said:
Nah. I was just thinking of the only real possibility at PF. If Rodney leaves, I hope Tubby doesn't even CONSIDER a spring recruit unless it is a transfer.
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Gophers are still in the running for 4-star big man Phillip Nolan (a 2012) and I'd hope they'd make a push at Johnny Woodard with that now open scholly. Two 2012 spring recruits that would be great for the gophers, in my opinion.
 

zambam said:
Unless they use the rule Russel Wilson did.
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Pretty small group could use that rule...Wilson was able to transfer because he already graduated from NC St and had another year of eligibility remaining, and was pursuing a graduate degree that his school did not offer.
 

Nolan is 2013, and you are making quite the leap that Rodney will be gone. Still too small to be a 4 in the NBA, and can't shoot well enough to be a 3.
 

Its little consoloation

But I think the Gophers could easily be 3-1, even w/o Mbakwe and would certainly be so with him. As for next year; I'm not too worried so long as no transfers out. Rodney has been amazing and I hope he comes back to be a true all-conference stud next year.

I like Andre Hollins, Joe Coleman, and I think Otto has upside as well. This will be a good team. Just need to stay positive.
 



From the Barn said:
Nolan is 2013, and you are making quite the leap that Rodney will be gone. Still too small to be a 4 in the NBA, and can't shoot well enough to be a 3.
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Nolan is 2013? My bad then, I've always thought he was 2012.

Still would like to grab woodard if something opens up though.
 

bga, what your post successfully asserts is that Rodney is a linchpin. Things look completely different if he goes rather than stays. I just don't think I'm going to assume he leaves. He's flashing some NBA potential, but he's still far from being an NBA talent that would be drafted in the first round. That would come out in the evaluation process he goes through. You said it, though - he might be scared by what he saw happen to Trevor, and that might him make a false move.

Still sitting here with a bunch of combo guards and no true point guard. I understand why Tubby is playing Maverick. He's the only one who seems to understand the offense and run it the way the coach wants it run. That said, he is indeed a backup quality PG, and we need a starter.
 

Just a thought, maybe Oto at PF next year? He has some range so can extend the D, and has shown some aggressiveness as of late. Will wait to see how he does the rest of the year though.
 

EE at center, Huge Mo at power forward. We'll be able to sort out the rest this season. It should be much clearer when the 3 sophs become juniors. Joe showed me exactly what I wanted to see. I can live with his and Dre's growing pains.

Good point on the bigs subsitution pattern. Don't have a good answer. Oto will have to provide minutes, as will Buggs and the Juco PF. Generally JUCO players play much better their second year.

I personally don't see Rodney going. On the one and done kids you draft on potential, a third year player I'd draft on production.Tough road w/o guaranteed money.

I'm enjoying these watching these kids develop. Hope you are too.
 

zambam said:
Just a thought, maybe Oto at PF next year? He has some range so can extend the D, and has shown some aggressiveness as of late. Will wait to see how he does the rest of the year though.
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Oto's future is at the 3-spot in my opinion. He's supposedly a very good shooter. I see him developing into a Jon Diebler type of player. I remember Tubby or someone else from the team saying last year that Oto was their best outside shooter in practice.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Oto's future is at the 3-spot in my opinion. He's supposedly a very good shooter. I see him developing into a Jon Diebler type of player. I remember Tubby or someone else from the team saying last year that Oto was their best outside shooter in practice.
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I agree, I'm just trying to think of who fits into our holes somewhat well.
 

howieramone said:
EE at center, Huge Mo at power forward. We'll be able to sort out the rest this season. It should be much clearer when the 3 sophs become juniors. Joe showed me exactly what I wanted to see. I can live with his and Dre's growing pains.

Good point on the bigs subsitution pattern. Don't have a good answer. Oto will have to provide minutes, as will Buggs and the Juco PF. Generally JUCO players play much better their second year.

I personally don't see Rodney going. On the one and done kids you draft on potential, a third year player I'd draft on production.Tough road w/o guaranteed money.

I'm enjoying these watching these kids develop. Hope you are too.
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I agree with most of what you said, and I am also looking forward to watching our kids develop as they mature.

On the other hand, the roster you described sounds to me like another middle of the pack conference team who would again be on the NCAA tourney bubble. That is a lot better than where we are today, but it isn't at all where I hoped we would be this far into Tubby's tenure.

At this pont, I was hoping for a team that was a legit conference title threat with the potential to win at least a couple of games in the big dance. Even with the most optimistic roster projections, it isn't looking to me like that is on our horizon any time soon.
 

I am sure I will expand on this point further at a later date, but you cannot play Eliason and Walker at the same time...way too slow in the frontcourt. Think back through the Gophers first four conference games and think about an opponent where we could have gotten away with playing both those guys. I would argue that against 3 of the 4 teams we have played (Illinois being the exception) that a team would be better served with a 6'8 PF type as it's "Center" and a Rodney/Damian type playing the 4.

I
 


Bad Gopher said:
bga, what your post successfully asserts is that Rodney is a linchpin. Things look completely different if he goes rather than stays. I just don't think I'm going to assume he leaves. He's flashing some NBA potential, but he's still far from being an NBA talent that would be drafted in the first round. That would come out in the evaluation process he goes through. You said it, though - he might be scared by what he saw happen to Trevor, and that might him make a false move.

Still sitting here with a bunch of combo guards and no true point guard. I understand why Tubby is playing Maverick. He's the only one who seems to understand the offense and run it the way the coach wants it run. That said, he is indeed a backup quality PG, and we need a starter.
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He is far from an NBA ready talent- he has no position in the pros. However, the NBA from the mid first round on down drafts on potential moreso than readiness. In my opinion, Rodney should not leave, but I'm guess he gets info that he's a pick between 16 and 30 and that might be good enough since it's guaranteed money.

You are right though- a scenario could be painted where Rodney returns, Walker shows up healthy and fulfills our hopes and Andre becomes a much improved point guard. In such a world we could be pretty good next year.
 

bga1 said:
You are right though- a scenario could be painted where Rodney returns, Walker shows up healthy and fulfills our hopes and Andre becomes a much improved point guard. In such a world we could be pretty good next year.
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I just don't see this happening. He will always struggle trying to be something he isn't imo.
 

tikited said:
I just don't see this happening. He will always struggle trying to be something he isn't imo.
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That may be the case, but I would sure spend the rest of this season trying to find out because Mav is not the key to the future, Welch is not a point guard and we have no point guards coming here on the recruiting horizon.
 

tikited said:
I just don't see this happening. He will always struggle trying to be something he isn't imo.
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I think Andre's development would accelerate if he could concentrate on playing the 2 guard.
 

station19 said:
I think Andre's development would accelerate if he could concentrate on playing the 2 guard.
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Who's the point guard in that scenario and what would the future look like?
 

station19 said:
I think Andre's development would accelerate if he could concentrate on playing the 2 guard.
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That's what I think as well, but as Beeg wrote...who will be the point then? This isn't a good situation.
 

My biggest concern is that we're 0-4, and that in all likelihood we're battling football schools Nebraska and Penn State for 10th, 11th and 12th place. Hurts to say (print) it, but it's the brutal truth. If we don't win in Happy Valley on Sunday, I'm trying to find where we can win a road game. ... heck, even a home game.

For the 14th time in 15 seasons, spanning three different coaches, the Gophers will not receive a bye at the B1G Tournament (requiring a top-5 or, now, top-4 finish). That along with our inability to protect the home court (note to Dave Revsine and other B1G analysts: Williams Arena no longer is a difficult place for opponents to win & it hasn't been for a long time) more than anything is a punch to the gut & and a statement of where we're at. Beat IU (as improbable as that seems).
 

SelectionSunday said:
My biggest concern is that we're 0-4, and that in all likelihood we're battling football schools Nebraska and Penn State for 10th, 11th and 12th place. Hurts to say (print) it, but it's the brutal truth. If we don't win in Happy Valley on Sunday, I'm trying to find where we can win a road game. ... heck, even a home game.

For the 14th time in 15 seasons, spanning three different coaches, the Gophers will not receive a bye at the B1G Tournament (requiring a top-5 or, now, top-4 finish). That along with our inability to protect the home court (note to Dave Revsine and other B1G analysts: Williams Arena no longer is a difficult place for opponents to win & it hasn't been for a long time) more than anything is what bums me out.
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I have no reason to think this- but I do think we will win 4 or more games- somehow.
 

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