Team Stats Through Five Games

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DeathClutch

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I was browsing our team stats through five games and found some interesting things.

67.8 Possessions/40- That ranks us 256/351 Division 1 teams in Possessions per game.

We have attempted 126 3- pointers. The 14 most attempts in the nation.

We are ranked 88 in ORB% and 91 in DRB%.

Ast/TO is at 1.67 which is good for 24th in the country.


So all in all, we haven't played that "fast" in terms of possesions. We are alot like Illinois last year where we are going to live and die by the three on alot of nights. Getting Mo back should help us with post scoring a little bit, but we will be putting up alot of threes this year. Our rebounding is pretty respectable through 5 games, although we haven't played teams with great size. Our rebounding may not be as much of a concern as we thought it would be however. We haven't turned the ball over that much so far this year. Bringing in Mathieu certainly helps this.

Source: http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/minnesota/team_stats?season=2013-2014&type=all
 



Thanks for the post DC. The thing I like best is we are 333rd (that's good) in TOs/game at 9.2/game. I figured a faster tempo would result in more TOs. And it might yet vs. better competition, but this is a good start. They are definitely playing faster, maybe not in possession count, but in tempo.
 

A few thoughts on this-

Anyone who has watched our games knows we are for certain playing fast- very fast. So as to the number of possessions I can only suggest that our press makes the other team consume time to get the ball up court so it is very likely we are actually slowing the game on the defensive end by making the opposition chew up more time to get a shot off.

As to the turnovers- most turnovers come from pressured play- as the clock winds down the pressure ramps up. Last year we would not look for shots early in the shot clock so we were passing the ball meaninglessly many more times- and each pass has a turnover risk to it. Furthermore our efforts last year were more to punch it inside- which adds to the risk. We also have better spacing and movement, making it easier to pass. Shooting shots early in the shot clock may be perilous to shooting percentage but it also reduces the risk of a turnover. Matheui has helped big time- he's crucial to the way we play.
 


Excellent points, BGA.

I agree that the pace of play is largely dependent upon Mathieu being in the lineup. I'd say he is the most crucial player in terms of style of play. That he hasn't been turning the ball over is a very, very good thing for this team and this offense.
 

bga1 said:
So as to the number of possessions I can only suggest that our press makes the other team consume time to get the ball up court so it is very likely we are actually slowing the game on the defensive end by making the opposition chew up more time to get a shot off.
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Pretty much. Gophers play defense for 18.7 second per possession. 40 teams defend longer per possession. This is about how long the Gophers played defense each possesion last season.

There has been a big uptick in how quickly offensive possessions end. Offensive possesions end after 16.3 seconds on average this season (104th) vs. 18.7 second (235th) last season.

There are 350 division 1 teams, for some perspective.
 

From the Barn said:
Pretty much. Gophers play defense for 18.7 second per possession. 40 teams defend longer per possession. This is about how long the Gophers played defense each possesion last season.

There has been a big uptick in how quickly offensive possessions end. Offensive possesions end after 16.3 seconds on average this season (104th) vs. 18.7 second (235th) last season.

There are 350 division 1 teams, for some perspective.
Click to expand...

Bad comp on the 16.3 vs 18.7. Ignores competition & game flow. Even carving out conf from last year's numbers probably drops you into the high 17's.

Playing faster, but not as much as full yr raw #'s would indicate
 

I could only imagine what that number for last year would be if it didn't include possessions that ended in turnovers. 34 seconds?

The fact that we have so few turnovers must also be one of the reasons why we don't have a ton of possessions per game. Looking at the number of possessions isn't really a helpful stat for a number of reasons. When we push the ball up quickly, move the ball around quickly, but then don't shoot that early in the possession, that stat would say it was a slow possession.

From the Barn said:
Offensive possesions end after 16.3 seconds on average this season (104th) vs. 18.7 second (235th) last season.
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Stats for junkies - pretty impressive numbers regarding less than 10 turnovers/game and FT % of over 70. IF they can keep that up - they'll be ok. Ast/TO also looks very good at this point in time. Let's see what happens as the teams get tougher. Thankfully we have Mathieu at point. What a nice addition so far.
 

freshtrout said:
Stats for junkies - pretty impressive numbers regarding less than 10 turnovers/game and FT % of over 70. IF they can keep that up - they'll be ok. Ast/TO also looks very good at this point in time. Let's see what happens as the teams get tougher. Thankfully we have Mathieu at point. What a nice addition so far.
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FT% is non-factor of course.. whether they shoot 71% or 65% this season matters very little.. it's just noise.

but re: the turnovers... I would tell you the low turnovers per game (and low turnover rate) aren't so much due to Mathieu and might actually be despite Mathieu..
 

Austin's dad, Lionel, has to be ecstatic! Finally a coach and a team that has a gunner mentality like he had.

Ultimately, however, Coach Pitino will be judged based upon wins and losses. This team may be fun to watch, but will they be able to compete against top competition? We'll find out a little bit more on Monday...

From the Barn said:
Pretty much. Gophers play defense for 18.7 second per possession. 40 teams defend longer per possession. This is about how long the Gophers played defense each possesion last season.

There has been a big uptick in how quickly offensive possessions end. Offensive possesions end after 16.3 seconds on average this season (104th) vs. 18.7 second (235th) last season.

There are 350 division 1 teams, for some perspective.
Click to expand...
 



Gopher Warrior said:
FT% is non-factor of course.. whether they shoot 71% or 65% this season matters very little.. it's just noise.

but re: the turnovers... I would tell you the low turnovers per game (and low turnover rate) aren't so much due to Mathieu and might actually be despite Mathieu..
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Two stats that are highly indicative of who wins basketball games...
1) Turnovers (low)
2) Rebounds (high)

Win those two and you usually win the game.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
FT% is non-factor of course.. whether they shoot 71% or 65% this season matters very little.. it's just noise.
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GW, I respect what you bring to the table and have heard this mantra many times and never quite understood. At the risk of completely derailing the thread, can you please explain further? The way I see it, each time a player steps to the line is an opportunity to score points completely unguarded. Are you suggesting it does't matter if a team leaves a smaller percentage of those opportunities uncashed? Or are you really just saying that it's not the percentage, but the "points uncashed." Simple examples.

Team A goes 10-20 from the line. 50%, ten points uncashed.
Team B goes 18-20 from the line. 90%, two points uncashed.
Team C goes 0-2 from the line. 0%, two points uncashed.
Team D goes 2-2 from the line. 100%, zero points uncashed.

These percentages, of course, ignore the missed opportunity of taking a 2nd free throw by missing the front end of a one-and-one.....

Clearly, to me, Team A is the least successful and Team B is the most successful - despite the percentages, in isolation, suggesting otherwise. C & D do not have enough data and is essentially inconsequential in both cases. Now, of course, I am talking about the aggregate of a game here. Of course, there are free throws that occur late in games that are, of course, crucial and "more important" than other free throws. Is this the point you are making?

My contention is that yes, these things are all true. Free throw percentage is just a stat. Like any other stat it has its flaws and doesn't tell the whole story about free throws. To me, though, it is generally indicative of a team's success at the line and tells a part of the story of a team's ability to win.

Gopher Warrior said:
but re: the turnovers... I would tell you the low turnovers per game (and low turnover rate) aren't so much due to Mathieu and might actually be despite Mathieu..
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Ok, I'm curious on this one too. Can you explain further, please? I have thoroughly enjoyed the tempo that Mathieu has brought to the table and am impressed that he isn't a Maverick (turnover machine), despite that fast tempo.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
FT% is non-factor of course.. whether they shoot 71% or 65% this season matters very little.. it's just noise.

but re: the turnovers... I would tell you the low turnovers per game (and low turnover rate) aren't so much due to Mathieu and might actually be despite Mathieu..
Click to expand...

Or it could be the difference between winning a game or two more and getting to the NCAAs or not. A 6 percent differential might me 35 -40 or more points a year. Over the course of the year there are more than a few games that could be won at the line...or lost.
 

GopherJake - at some point I'll get deeper into thoughts/explanation, but I think key here is that you share a the same view many people have: free throws are free. It's almost an automatic and any misses are "giving points away" or "uncashed".

However, people don't share that same line of thinking when it comes to taking a bad shot... or a dumb turnover... "those things happen, it's basketball"... but the truth is that field goal shooting and turnovers (as are other factors - including rebounding percentages) are far, far more significant to the outcome of a game than FT%.

Not only is FT% not meaningful to winning a basketball game, but NCAA basketball players shoot around 69% from the line every year... concentrating on it by "practicing free throws" is a solution often offered up, but it's a bad suggestion.

Now.. if there's a minute left and you're in a tight game.. of course free throws take on increased importance.. everything going on in the game becomes that much more amplified... and with regard to free throws, you can and should take actions to address the importance of late game free throws in a tight game (i.e., if you're up by a point and the other team is going to try and foul you, you'd want to get it to experienced player who is an excellent free throw shooter and cool customer instead of player B who barely makes half of his attempts)...

But looking at a team's free throw percentage over a period of games (or even one game) and concluding it's an issue is flawed and usually wrong, unless you're listing out about 25 issues that a team has and it's way down on the list.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
However, people don't share that same line of thinking when it comes to taking a bad shot... or a dumb turnover... "those things happen, it's basketball"... but the truth is that field goal shooting and turnovers (as are other factors - including rebounding percentages) are far, far more significant to the outcome of a game than FT%.
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One thing being more meaningful doesn't make the other thing meaningless or a non-factor, like you've said numerous times. It makes a difference in the amount of points you score, therefore it's still a factor and definitely meaningful. Period.
 

If a teams shoots 60% from the line and lose by a couple of points - on average if they would have shot 70% from the line - they probably win. So of course it matters - but other factors in each game may be just as important. But points are still points.
 

freshtrout said:
If a teams shoots 60% from the line and lose by a couple of points - on average if they would have shot 70% from the line - they probably win. So of course it matters - but other factors in each game may be just as important. But points are still points.
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What I am saying is that other factors aren't just as important... they are far more important. So much so that commenting a team's FT% is nearly meaningless.

Let's say you're trying to understand how good a team's offense is, but you can only receive one piece of information on that team: eFG%, turnover %, offensive rebounding % or free throw %. I'm not even talking how good a team is in terms of wins/losses - just how good their offense is.

You'd want to know their eFG%. If you were able to add on a 2nd and a 3rd, you'd take turnover % and offensive rebounding %.

Free throw %? Take it or leave it. It won't tell you much about how good a team's offense is and it certainly won't tell you much about how often the team wins basketball games. Free throw % doesn't make a team good. It doesn't even make a team's offense good.

An offense can be EXCELLENT, yet still be a relatively poor-shooting free throw team.. there's simply little correlation between FT% and a team's offensive efficiency. Factually speaking, of course.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
However, people don't share that same line of thinking when it comes to taking a bad shot... or a dumb turnover... "those things happen, it's basketball"...
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What people are you talking about? Most get the importance of good shot selection and importance of turnovers... That's elementary.
 

I rarely feel the need to comment, but I swear that like half the time I do, you've already posted exactly what I'm about to say. Kinda weirds me out sometimes.

GophersOnTheRise said:
One thing being more meaningful doesn't make the other thing meaningless or a non-factor, like you've said numerous times. It makes a difference in the amount of points you score, therefore it's still a factor and definitely meaningful. Period.
Click to expand...
 

underground629 said:
I rarely feel the need to comment, but I swear that like half the time I do, you've already posted exactly what I'm about to say. Kinda weirds me out sometimes.
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Haha great minds think alike. Either that, or we're just both equally good at pointing out the obvious.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
FT% is non-factor of course..
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I'll be sure to tell North Carolina that when they just miss the tournament because of their loss to Belmont where they shot 46% from the line.
 

matt said:
I'll be sure to tell North Carolina that when they just miss the tournament because of their loss to Belmont where they shot 46% from the line.
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Sounds good. They'll probably nod their heads in agreement and say, "yep, that's the game where we let Belmont shoot 59.6% eFG while we only managed 50.0% eFG."
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Sounds good. They'll probably nod their heads in agreement and say, "yep, that's the game where we let Belmont shoot 59.6% eFG while we only managed 50.0% eFG."
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God love you :)

This free throw discussion is always interesting.
 

Well it appears that we all agree that it's a factor - just like other factors in a game - sometimes it's a more important factor - sometimes less. But a factor nonetheless. It that too many factors? :)
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Sounds good. They'll probably nod their heads in agreement and say, "yep, that's the game where we let Belmont shoot 59.6% eFG while we only managed 50.0% eFG."
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You know, sometimes it's okay to admit you're wrong. Being stubborn and relentlessly arguing something everyone knows you're wrong about make you look much worse.
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
You know, sometimes it's okay to admit you're wrong. Being stubborn and relentlessly arguing something everyone knows you're wrong about make you look much worse.
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Not at all wrong. FT% tells you next to nothing about a team overall and going further, has no meaningful correlation to a team's offensive efficiency. Non-factor.

If someone tells you a key to a team's season is that the team must shoot better than 70% from the line, they are talking pure nonsense.

You can run regression analyses for yourself - plenty of historical basketball is available. Well, maybe YOU can't run a regression analysis, but someone could for you.
 


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