TCF Design

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13 Lined Ground Squirrel

13 Lined Ground Squirrel

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It's a place designed for a University of Minnesota football schedule that ends in late November, with concession stands that are not intended to be operational in temperatures below 30 degrees
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http://voices.washingtonpost.com/early-lead/2010/12/minnesota_vikings_will_play_at.html


I've seen this quoted in a couple of places. I am assuming it's an error, considering TCF bank has already hosted a couple of games with temps in the twenties. Also, subzero temperatures aren't unheard-of during college football season.

Is there any substance to this, or is it complete BS? If there's anything to it, it seems like a major design flaw.
 

I think it's probably accurate that in the concession area (behind the counter) the temperature can't be below 30. It would freeze the pipes. But, those areas are heated, I think - someone please correct me. The concourse is not heated and has little to do with that 30 degree number.
 

I think it's referencing a couple of factors, mostly that the playing surface doesn't have a heating system underneath it. So under 30 degrees it could freeze and be dangerous to play on.

We've played on a few games where the temp was below 30 but it's not late enough in the year in November for the ground to freeze. I'm sure when they designed the field, not putting in the heating mechanism was a cost saving measure because they didn't foresee playing in any December games.
 

16FeetUnder said:
I think it's probably accurate that in the concession area (behind the counter) the temperature can't be below 30. It would freeze the pipes. But, those areas are heated, I think - someone please correct me. The concourse is not heated and has little to do with that 30 degree number.
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I saw someone on the news last night saying this too. They are looking into putting up plexi glass over the counters to trap the heat in. It'll be similar to buying things at hood ass gas stations.
 

I believe the Iowa game temp at the start was 23F. The only part of me that got cold were my feet. They started cold and got colder. The people in the concession stands looked like they were cold. And the bathrooms, which usually were a little warmer, didn't feel much warmer (but there are heaters in there). In summary...it was cold and there really was nowhere to go to warm up.

Having said that, I'm sure the heat in the bathrooms and concession area would keep them above 30F while they are open.

Cold games are much more fun if it's snowing like crazy. And you leave the stadium with a warm heart when you beat Iowa!
 


I thought the same thing regarding the quotes about the stadium not being "designed" to operate in temps below the 30's. I have been at EVERY game at TCF and more than one has been under 30 and the Iowa game was very winter-like (pretty sure it was high teens or low 20's). It isn't unheard of to have temps as low as single digits late in November. Rare, but possible and certainly should be accounted for in TCF Bank Stadium design.

I know people have talked about TCF hosting the Vikings for one or two seasons when/if their stadium is built. I suppose a situation that would be that long, and planned that far inadvance would bring a lot more heaters, under-turf heaters, etc. into play but there was no point in doing all this until they had to. This game will be unique. Players were slipping on the icy turf in the Iowa game already. I think it will be real interesting to see how that plays out now, with this much ice and snow down in the carpet.

Anyway... there is always a lot of misinformation about these things and unfortunately our Gopher Holers can be a big part of that. I believe it was just a couple days ago someone was talking like they knew the inside scoop and said here that there was a "design flaw" in TCF Bank Stadium where the tunnel was too small to fit dump trucks to remove the snow. Hmmmmmm. What is that object on the field in the picture below? People say things as if it is fact when they are really repeating what they have heard, and much of they are repeating is flat out false.

8f8cae58.jpg
 

gophergrad said:
I think it's referencing a couple of factors, mostly that the playing surface doesn't have a heating system underneath it. So under 30 degrees it could freeze and be dangerous to play on.

.
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Did any stadium built before say 1990 have heating systems under the field? Were they all dangerous to play on? I don't buy that.
 


howeda7 said:
Did any stadium built before say 1990 have heating systems under the field? Were they all dangerous to play on? I don't buy that.
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I agree with you. I'm pretty sure when UMD played their game two weeks ago, they didn't have a heating field, and everything worked out.

But this is what the players union, and the NFL care to a crazy degree about players safety.

On the other hand if someone does slip and get hurt playing at TCF, all of the free, great pub the U gets could go down the drain.
 



howeda7 said:
Did any stadium built before say 1990 have heating systems under the field? Were they all dangerous to play on? I don't buy that.
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This. Lots of both turf and natural grass stadiums that did not or still don't have underground turf heating systems. That's a relatively recent phenomenon.

If the Vikes end up playing at TCF for a couple years during new stadium construction, I could see the U asking them to pay for that upgrade. It would be a nice addition, but not critical.
 

Heated fields

howeda7 said:
Did any stadium built before say 1990 have heating systems under the field? Were they all dangerous to play on? I don't buy that.
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Lambeau Field has had a heated field since it's second year of existance. The infamous Ice Bowl the heaters broke down because they weren't designed for the brutal cold they had. I might be mistaken but I'm fairly certain Met Stadium was heated as well.
 


If the NFL makes them go play in St. Louis because the ground is frozen and it's 'too dangerous' there is going to be hell to pay. That is absurd.
 



13 Lined Ground Squirrel said:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/early-lead/2010/12/minnesota_vikings_will_play_at.html


I've seen this quoted in a couple of places. I am assuming it's an error, considering TCF bank has already hosted a couple of games with temps in the twenties. Also, subzero temperatures aren't unheard-of during college football season.

Is there any substance to this, or is it complete BS? If there's anything to it, it seems like a major design flaw.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that it's not about the temperature, but rather it's about the sustained temperature over days/weeks.

When the temp drops below freezing in Oct for a day or two, it has very little effect on the infrastructure. The ambient temperature of the building is not below freezing.

Much different story after sustained freezing temperatures in a building that has been empty for weeks.
 

Schnauzer said:
Anyway... there is always a lot of misinformation about these things and unfortunately our Gopher Holers can be a big part of that. I believe it was just a couple days ago someone was talking like they knew the inside scoop and said here that there was a "design flaw" in TCF Bank Stadium where the tunnel was too small to fit dump trucks to remove the snow. Hmmmmmm. What is that object on the field in the picture below? People say things as if it is fact when they are really repeating what they have heard, and much of they are repeating is flat out false.

8f8cae58.jpg
Click to expand...

That was me and I already apologized for it on the original thread. http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/showthread.php?t=25093&page=5

I was told by somebody I trusted there was an issue before the Iowa game getting the proper trucks in the venue. That information appears not to be correct. It is possible that the information I was given was about front-end loaders. Please note the scaled down size of the loader scooping snow here.

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/12/report-bears-vikings-to-play-at-tcf-bank-stadium.html
 

BarnBoy said:
My understanding is that it's not about the temperature, but rather it's about the sustained temperature over days/weeks.

When the temp drops below freezing in Oct for a day or two, it has very little effect on the infrastructure. The ambient temperature of the building is not below freezing.

Much different story after sustained freezing temperatures in a building that has been empty for weeks.
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Its no different for the ground. We had that early November snow storm where we had a substantial amount of snow, but since there wasnt continuous sub freezing temperatures, the ground had not taken a frost yet. As the temperatures stays continually below freezing, the water bound to the soil particles freezes and continues to slowly freeze deeper with continued freezing. When the ground starts to freeze, that is when you see infrastructure damage. Also, it takes a while for it to all thaw out. Hence why an early spring rain will commonly sit on top of the soil because the frost has not come out of the ground yet. I imagine the ground below the field having a substantial frost is what they were worried about because you cannot thaw it out.
 

Did people see this line? "It'll be, well, different. There will be no luxury suites, less primo parking."

Am I the only one that questions the knowledge of the writer when she is blatantly wrong about that?
 

grunkiejr said:
Did people see this line? "It'll be, well, different. There will be no luxury suites, less primo parking."

Am I the only one that questions the knowledge of the writer when she is blatantly wrong about that?
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She's not totally wrong about the suites, but it is worded extremely poorly. TCF suites are "owned" by the folks who pay for them to see Gopher games. So Vikings suite holders don't automatically have rights to get in them. The U is still figuring out what the options are on that front.
 

gophergrad said:
I saw someone on the news last night saying this too. They are looking into putting up plexi glass over the counters to trap the heat in. It'll be similar to buying things at hood ass gas stations.
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They should use the plastic stuff that hangs in the doorways to restaurant walk in freezers, not plexiglass.
 

Lakeville Goldy said:
Lambeau Field has had a heated field since it's second year of existance. The infamous Ice Bowl the heaters broke down because they weren't designed for the brutal cold they had. I might be mistaken but I'm fairly certain Met Stadium was heated as well.
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The Met had no underground heating. The field was often covered by a tarp with heaters underneath it. They also had the 'flame thrower on wheels' to thaw the field.
 

Does anyone know what the extra cost would have been if heating coils (under the field) were installed during construction?
 

There was talk about an in ground heating system for TCF Stadium when it was being built. I thought this was done. Is this some kind of senior moment or what happened? I'm assuming some financial reality set in?
 

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