Surprise Surprise "Major" Violations at Oregon

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Knock me over with a feather. No wonder Brewster couldn't get Josh Huff or LaMichael James.
 

However, the documents also state NCAA enforcement staff said they had "no finding of lack of institutional control and no finding of unethical conduct," key points when it comes time for punishment to be considered, KATU reported. Oregon is expected to appear before the NCAA's committee on infractions sometime this year.

I'm confused by this, how can their be "major violations" but no finding of unethical conduct" ????
 

I just wish the NCAA would hit these teams harder. Just taking away scholarships isnt enough punishment the NCAA needs more. How about limiting home games? Hurt these schools in the pocket book. Take away 50 scholarships over 3 years. Great school like USC get the top recruits anyway do taking away 30 or less might hurt depth but they still throw very good teams on the field anyway. Make them struggle to win games. I like the idea of forcing all scholarships null and void for teams caught cheating. If the players want to stay and pay their own way great if they want to leave the school and go get a scholarship from somewhere else they should be allowed to play right away unless they were involved in the cheating.
 

WolfontheProwl said:
I just wish the NCAA would hit these teams harder. Just taking away scholarships isnt enough punishment the NCAA needs more. How about limiting home games? Hurt these schools in the pocket book. Take away 50 scholarships over 3 years. Great school like USC get the top recruits anyway do taking away 30 or less might hurt depth but they still throw very good teams on the field anyway. Make them struggle to win games. I like the idea of forcing all scholarships null and void for teams caught cheating. If the players want to stay and pay their own way great if they want to leave the school and go get a scholarship from somewhere else they should be allowed to play right away unless they were involved in the cheating.
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I have to agree.
U$C, Miami, PSU, and OSU should have all been hurt by their cheating scandals, none have.
I'd do something like a 4 year moratorium on scholarships, and a "open season" situation where all players who transfer are immediately eligible, and a 4 year bowl ban.
That way current players keep their free education, but also have an out if other schools will accept them.
It hits a "reset button so to speak, where schools must address their program, and gives them a fresh start after the bowl ban with a new culture and new players. it hurts their depth and forces their program to rebuild over a 6-8 year period, which seems to be around the same amount of time these cheating programs are on top.
 


Ole said:
I have to agree.
U$C, Miami, PSU, and OSU should have all been hurt by their cheating scandals, none have.
I'd do something like a 4 year moratorium on scholarships, and a "open season" situation where all players who transfer are immediately eligible, and a 4 year bowl ban.
That way current players keep their free education, but also have an out if other schools will accept them.
It hits a "reset button so to speak, where schools must address their program, and gives them a fresh start after the bowl ban with a new culture and new players. it hurts their depth and forces their program to rebuild over a 6-8 year period, which seems to be around the same amount of time these cheating programs are on top.
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Would you have supported this for Minnesota as well? Minnesota in their history is one of the schools with the most major violations in NCAA history.
 

GopherGod said:
Would you have supported this for Minnesota as well? Minnesota in their history is one of the schools with the most major violations in NCAA history.
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Do you beleive that if Duke and MN committed the same violations, and each were discovered by the NCAA, that the penalties would be the same?
 

GopherGod said:
Would you have supported this for Minnesota as well? Minnesota in their history is one of the schools with the most major violations in NCAA history.
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I found one major infraction in the database, holtz era, and yes there should have been punishments laid down more severe than what was done. Probation has no place in college athletics penalties IMO.
 

I think the problem is this: how do you punish the school, without punishing the players who had nothing to do with the violations. Personally, for a major violation, I would look at withholding all TV money for a certain period of time, and make them pay back any money they received for bowl-game participation during the period when the violations took place. Hit these schools in the pocketbook. As others have said, the helmet schools can overcome the loss of scholarships. I wish there was a way to make the penalties follow the coach, but when the coach jumps to the pros, that's hard to do.

Another idea - schools on probation may not appear on TV, either on national games or conference networks. Maybe a limit on calling or texting recruits.
 



I Know it is not this easy, but if a school wanted to become a helmet school, doing what oregon did works perfectly with the NCAA rules. As long as there is no loss of institutional control, the penalty will not be bad enough to offset the gains made by a well executed program of cheating. Too bad, but that seems to be the system.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I think the problem is this: how do you punish the school, without punishing the players who had nothing to do with the violations. Personally, for a major violation, I would look at withholding all TV money for a certain period of time, and make them pay back any money they received for bowl-game participation during the period when the violations took place. Hit these schools in the pocketbook. As others have said, the helmet schools can overcome the loss of scholarships. I wish there was a way to make the penalties follow the coach, but when the coach jumps to the pros, that's hard to do.

Another idea - schools on probation may not appear on TV, either on national games or conference networks. Maybe a limit on calling or texting recruits.
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Ya, that would put the Fear of God into them.
 

As is, based on the amount of teams that get on probation, the gains apparently outweighed the losses. And until the NCAA figures out how to reverse that, coaches are going to keep winning recruits and bowl games by cheating.
 

I think any player on a team that is put on probation should be able to transfer and have the scholarship count against the team on probation (not the school they transfer to) AND be paid for by the team on probation. You are then hitting them in the pocket book and benefitting teams that run clean programs by giving them extra scholarship players.
 



Sadly, part of the reason the NCAA doesn't know if they can penalize them is because numerous schools all paid Willie Lyles to try to steer recruits their way. The rationale that they using is that no one had an advantage if they were all doing it. #bassackwards
 

Ole said:
U$C, Miami, PSU, and OSU should have all been hurt by their cheating scandals, none have.
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PSU didn't cheat.

OSU would've had a good chance to go to the national title game last year, so I'd say they got hurt.
 

dpodoll68 said:
PSU didn't cheat.

OSU would've had a good chance to go to the national title game last year, so I'd say they got hurt.
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Agreed. But I think he was saying it didn't hurt them in their ability to get top talent. Kids still want to go to these schools regardless of whether there is a bowl ban/limited scholarships/probation.
 

Lakeville Goldy said:
I think any player on a team that is put on probation should be able to transfer and have the scholarship count against the team on probation (not the school they transfer to) AND be paid for by the team on probation. You are then hitting them in the pocket book and benefitting teams that run clean programs by giving them extra scholarship players.
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This! Is a good idea!
 


dpodoll68 said:
PSU didn't cheat.

OSU would've had a good chance to go to the national title game last year, so I'd say they got hurt.
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Broke criminal laws. But I suppose that isn't cheating. They still can rot in hell.
 

Ole said:
I found one major infraction in the database, holtz era, and yes there should have been punishments laid down more severe than what was done. Probation has no place in college athletics penalties IMO.
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There are actually 7 major infraction cases committed by Minnesota according to the official NCAA database.
 

GopherGod said:
There are actually 7 major infraction cases committed by Minnesota according to the official NCAA database.
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Dude...you have over 2300 posts and none of them seem to resemble excitement about the programs at the U. You are one unhappy soul...just go away.
 

The only way your going to impact recruits wanting to play for schools that cheat to win, is to make them wear jerseys that say cheaters, for three or four years.
 

GopherGod said:
There are actually 7 major infraction cases committed by Minnesota (since 1940) according to the official NCAA database.
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...and only 3 of them were in football. Years: 1969, 1988, 1991.

1969: Improper recruiting transportation.
1988: Improper entertainment, financial aid, lodging and transportation; extra benefits; out-of-season practice; complimentary tickets; improper recruiting entertainment, inducements, lodging and transportation; unethical conduct; institutional control; certification of compliance.
1991: FOOTBALL -- IMPROPER FINANCIAL AID: loans without a repayment plan. EXTRA BENEFITS: $6,700 from an institutional nonathletics fund; cash, loans, local automobile transportation and meals. IMPERMISSIBLE RECRUITING: cash payments by an institutional staff member. ACADEMIC ELIGIBILITY: graduate assistant coaches failed to meet minimum academic requirements. LACK OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL.

Only one of these 3 had lack of institutional control. I'd hardly call this a long, sordid history in rules violations, and I would wager a big bet that there is a lot less of anything going on at MN compared to schools with much larger alumni associations with heavier involvement in the booster programs.
 

RailBaronYarr

Thanks for doing the research. It's unbelievable how some people her have no qualms in saying things here that are outright lies. In many cases they seem to have clear agenda and are willing to lie to make their case. Not good.:mad:
 

Killjoy said:
Thanks for doing the research. It's unbelievable how some people her have no qualms in saying things here that are outright lies. In many cases they seem to have clear agenda and are willing to lie to make their case. Not good.:mad:
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What did I lie about? I said the University of Minnesota had 7 major violations, which is true. I will wait.
 

How about some kind of penalty for the head coach that can be implemented whenever they return to college football? If Pete Carroll or Chip Kelly ever want to return to college football, their program will be punished in some way. If the school doesn't think it's fair, then don't hire them.
 


GopherGod said:
What did I lie about? I said the University of Minnesota had 7 major violations, which is true. I will wait.
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One of the problem was that your response was to a comment by another person that there was one football violation (Holtz) and you responded that was wrong there were seven. The following quote RailBaronYarr gave the whole story and was balanced as to what actually occurred:

...and only 3 of them were in football. Years: 1969, 1988, 1991.

1969: Improper recruiting transportation.
1988: Improper entertainment, financial aid, lodging and transportation; extra benefits; out-of-season practice; complimentary tickets; improper recruiting entertainment, inducements, lodging and transportation; unethical conduct; institutional control; certification of compliance.
1991: FOOTBALL -- IMPROPER FINANCIAL AID: loans without a repayment plan. EXTRA BENEFITS: $6,700 from an institutional nonathletics fund; cash, loans, local automobile transportation and meals. IMPERMISSIBLE RECRUITING: cash payments by an institutional staff member. ACADEMIC ELIGIBILITY: graduate assistant coaches failed to meet minimum academic requirements. LACK OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL.

Only one of these 3 had lack of institutional control. I'd hardly call this a long, sordid history in rules violations, and I would wager a big bet that there is a lot less of anything going on at MN compared to schools with much larger alumni associations with heavier involvement in the booster programs.
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