Sullinger adopting Shaq offense

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RunGopherRun

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I don't know about anyone else, but I absolutely hate when post players "back down" their opponent. Essentially they get the ball somewhere near the block and literally push their way backwards into the defender to get better position. The master of this was Shaquille O'Neal. His offensive game was offensive, yet extremely effective because the refs allowed him to dominate with his size and strength.

But the worst part about it is when a defender pushes the offensive player back, he gets called for the foul. Last night RSIII picked up his third foul on a play exactly like this. Sullinger gets the ball in the post, slowly dribbles and forces his way back into Ralph, Ralph bodies him up, tries to hold his position, and gets dinged with a foul.

Is the only real defense of this move to flop and hope they call a charge? I wasn't aware that just because the offensive player is bigger and stronger, he is allowed to plow his way to the hoop. Don't get me wrong, this is definitely not the limit of Sullinger's game, it's just always been a pet peeve of mine while watching hoops.
 

EE did a good job of holding his ground with him, and bringing Oto in on the double team eliminated that shot. As you said, he has other options.
 

RunGopherRun said:
I don't know about anyone else, but I absolutely hate when post players "back down" their opponent. Essentially they get the ball somewhere near the block and literally push their way backwards into the defender to get better position. The master of this was Shaquille O'Neal. His offensive game was offensive, yet extremely effective because the refs allowed him to dominate with his size and strength.

But the worst part about it is when a defender pushes the offensive player back, he gets called for the foul. Last night RSIII picked up his third foul on a play exactly like this. Sullinger gets the ball in the post, slowly dribbles and forces his way back into Ralph, Ralph bodies him up, tries to hold his position, and gets dinged with a foul.

Is the only real defense of this move to flop and hope they call a charge? I wasn't aware that just because the offensive player is bigger and stronger, he is allowed to plow his way to the hoop. Don't get me wrong, this is definitely not the limit of Sullinger's game, it's just always been a pet peeve of mine while watching hoops.
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This is what good players do. It's called a "post game". Lebron does the same thing. You're gonna get the call if you're out of position, put your arms down, or put both hands on the player. It'll get called every time.

When someone is getting backed down, there could (should) be a player to come and double team from the side or attempt a steal. We tried to reach in on Sullinger a bit and that'll get called every time.
 

Somewhere I read that the rule of thumb for officiating is that the offensive player gets one bump to move the defender, but the second bump is supposed to be an offensive foul, especially if the defender is set and not dancing. Problem is, players like Sullinger are permitted as many bumps as they want, and the only option is the double team. When that's dictated to the defense, it puts them in a compromised situation.
 

RSIII is a terrible post defender...he should never body up and should always play for the block shot. He drops his hands, is too high in the hips and has a poor base...plus has the guy been introduced to the weight room?

Sullinger was doing what any good back to basket player would do.
 


The difference between O'Neal and Sullinger is that Sullinger is not allowed 4 steps before he puts the ball on the floor, is not allowed to change his pivot foot, and is not allowed to crouch down and go up against his defender at about a 45 degree angle, bulling his shoulder into him hard enough to make him fall, proceed to take 5 more steps before he dunks, and then look around at the crowd and the camera with a look like "you can't stop me".

Heck...they wouldn't be able to stop me in the NBA if I got to play by O'Neal's rules.
 

Unregistered User said:
The difference between O'Neal and Sullinger is that Sullinger is not allowed 4 steps before he puts the ball on the floor, is not allowed to change his pivot foot, and is not allowed to crouch down and go up against his defender at about a 45 degree angle, bulling his shoulder into him hard enough to make him fall, proceed to take 5 more steps before he dunks, and then look around at the crowd and the camera with a look like "you can't stop me".

Heck...they wouldn't be able to stop me in the NBA if I got to play by O'Neal's rules.
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Sullinger may not get the 4 steps of shaq but he was defnietly allowed 2-3 free steps and was free to use 2-3 pivot feet. I would like to think im not bias against officials but this seemed like it happened every time he caught the ball and hightower would just tell our players to play on when the said anything
 

CrocShots said:
This is what good players do. It's called a "post game". Lebron does the same thing. You're gonna get the call if you're out of position, put your arms down, or put both hands on the player. It'll get called every time.

When someone is getting backed down, there could (should) be a player to come and double team from the side or attempt a steal. We tried to reach in on Sullinger a bit and that'll get called every time.
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So you're saying that if a team has a bulldozing post player you are essentially required to double team to stop him? What a joke. I'm not against doubling the post, but for it to be a requirement because of the plowing post moves is ridiculous! I'm not anti-contact in basketball, but the way some post players are allowed to create contact with the ball in their hands to get deeper in the lane is not good basketball.
 




Unregistered User said:
The difference between O'Neal and Sullinger is that Sullinger is not allowed 4 steps before he puts the ball on the floor, is not allowed to change his pivot foot, and is not allowed to crouch down and go up against his defender at about a 45 degree angle, bulling his shoulder into him hard enough to make him fall, proceed to take 5 more steps before he dunks, and then look around at the crowd and the camera with a look like "you can't stop me".

Heck...they wouldn't be able to stop me in the NBA if I got to play by O'Neal's rules.
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sounds like a narration of me trying to get off the couch last nite.
 

Ralph tries this and the defense sends a player to pick him clean from the front.

Sullinger tries this and we "try" to double him - he either shrugs it off and still gets a shot off - or passes to a wide open shooter.
 

Main difference:

Sullinger holds the ball above his chest. Ralph holds the ball below his waist.
 

RunGopherRun said:
I don't know about anyone else, but I absolutely hate when post players "back down" their opponent. Essentially they get the ball somewhere near the block and literally push their way backwards into the defender to get better position. The master of this was Shaquille O'Neal. His offensive game was offensive, yet extremely effective because the refs allowed him to dominate with his size and strength.

But the worst part about it is when a defender pushes the offensive player back, he gets called for the foul. Last night RSIII picked up his third foul on a play exactly like this. Sullinger gets the ball in the post, slowly dribbles and forces his way back into Ralph, Ralph bodies him up, tries to hold his position, and gets dinged with a foul.

Is the only real defense of this move to flop and hope they call a charge? I wasn't aware that just because the offensive player is bigger and stronger, he is allowed to plow his way to the hoop. Don't get me wrong, this is definitely not the limit of Sullinger's game, it's just always been a pet peeve of mine while watching hoops.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying, but the fact is that the player is using his inherent advantages (size and strength) within the rules to his benefit. It's unfair that some players can jump higher than others, and it's unfair that some players are quicker than others, and it's unfair that some players are taller than others. Legislating against this would be like giving Rodney a foul after one of his patented hellacious dunks, with the ref stating that's it's not fair that he used his ridiculous vertical because no one else could. As others have said, there are strategic ways to counteract a bigger and stronger player from the opposition.
 




dpodoll68 said:
I get what you're saying, but the fact is that the player is using his inherent advantages (size and strength) within the rules to his benefit. It's unfair that some players can jump higher than others, and it's unfair that some players are quicker than others, and it's unfair that some players are taller than others. Legislating against this would be like giving Rodney a foul after one of his patented hellacious dunks, with the ref stating that's it's not fair that he used his ridiculous vertical because no one else could. As others have said, there are strategic ways to counteract a bigger and stronger player from the opposition.
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I think your comparison is a bit of a reach. It isn't illegal to jump high, to be quick, or to be tall. It is illegal to displace a player on the floor from his position by simply pushing him. It shouldn't matter if the player has the ball, you are not allowed to push a defender. Why is it illegal to move while screening? Essentially the same idea. Why is it ok to do this on the block with the ball, but not ok to do this away from the ball while screening? (BTW, did anyone see the other big from osu screening? Wide elbows and sliding screens everywhere, but no calls. Just an observation.)

But like I said in my original post, the more frustrating thing that I see is the defender trying to hold his own against a plowing offensive player, and then get called for a foul. When I used to coach I would ask the refs to please instruct my player how to defend this offensive move that they would deem legal. If my guys push back, they get the foul called on them. If they try and draw a charge it rarely gets called. Being simply bigger and stronger should not be this much of an advantage.

Now obviously there are bigger players that use their quickness and skill to create good post position before they catch the ball so they don't need to "back down" the defender, which is how it should be done. I have nothing against big players, just the back down.
 

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