Substitution Strategy?

[caiusov]

Maybe someone can tell me what Tubby is thinking. I'm at a loss. I sat at the game against Penn State and watched with total amazement as the entire starting line up was pulled and with a 5 point lead. After a 11 point swing with Penn State up by 6 points he puts the starting 5 back and doesn't get control of the game back until well into the second half.
The same thing at Michigan State. Our guys were playing a superior team with a 6-5 score not even 5 minutes into the game and another whole sale substitution.
Damien Johnson, Al Nolen and Ralph Samson were playing outstanding. Nolen was the hat hand and Ralph was crashing the boards. Is this hockey or basketball. Our guys did not look tired.
What's going on?

 

[Section201]

The "second line"

Maybe someone can tell me what Tubby is thinking. I'm at a loss. I sat at the game against Penn State and watched with total amazement as the entire starting line up was pulled and with a 5 point lead. After a 11 point swing with Penn State up by 6 points he puts the starting 5 back and doesn't get control of the game back until well into the second half.
The same thing at Michigan State. Our guys were playing a superior team with a 6-5 score not even 5 minutes into the game and another whole sale substitution.
Damien Johnson, Al Nolen and Ralph Samson were playing outstanding. Nolen was the hat hand and Ralph was crashing the boards. Is this hockey or basketball. Our guys did not look tired.
What's going on?

It is what Tubby does. It has had mixed results but lately the "second line" has not looked good together. ZERO of 8 from the field last night gives them nowhere to go but UP

I do wonder if it would be better for the "second line" to be substituted more individually than in mass in the first half but in all things related to Gopher hoops, in Tubby I trust.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Maybe someone can tell me what Tubby is thinking. I'm at a loss. I sat at the game against Penn State and watched with total amazement as the entire starting line up was pulled and with a 5 point lead. After a 11 point swing with Penn State up by 6 points he puts the starting 5 back and doesn't get control of the game back until well into the second half.
The same thing at Michigan State. Our guys were playing a superior team with a 6-5 score not even 5 minutes into the game and another whole sale substitution.
Damien Johnson, Al Nolen and Ralph Samson were playing outstanding. Nolen was the hat hand and Ralph was crashing the boards. Is this hockey or basketball. Our guys did not look tired.
What's going on?

Tubby has 441 career W in Div I over 18+ seasons. I think he knows what he's doing.

NHL teams substitute a whole new line at once.

 

[Section201]

FOT

Tubby has 441 career W in Div I over 18+ seasons. I think he knows what he's doing.

NHL teams substitute a whole new line at once.

FOT...

I can't recall any other NCAA hoops team doing this every game.

Has Tubby done this anywhere else and if so, with this level of consistency?

I wonder if Devoe for example might be better off getting more minutes with members of the "first line".

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

FOT...

I can't recall any other NCAA hoops team doing this every game.

Has Tubby done this anywhere else and if so, with this level of consistency?

I wonder if Devoe for example might be better off getting more minutes with members of the "first line".

Yes. He did it at UK often. He likes doing it.

 

[caiusov]

Substitution Strategy

Come on. Whether he did it at UK or not, isn't the issue. He hasn't got the personel to do it especially against Michigan State. Both Penn State and MSU took advantage of it. This is the Big Ten.
It appears to me that he is trying to work the second team in no matter what. Since when do you take your players out when they are playing well. How is Harfarber going to get hot when he is on the bench.
Let's not blindly fellow this guy because of his past reputation. Let's demand results. They had a to win the game against MSU. But when the first team has to claw back we get results like last night. Tubby was just was out-coached.

 

[SonOfTheVarsity]

Let's not overreact here. Tubby plays the starters for about five minutes, then puts in the second team for maybe about four minutes before reentering starters and subbing on a more traditional basis. Sometimes he'll do a line switch later if he's unhappy with the effort of the five guys on the court, but I don't think it's nearly as bad or common as some people make it out to be. You'd be hard-pressed to form a decent argument that a five-guy substitution early in the first half like Tubby does has costed the Gophers a game at all.

 

[Prolific]

I know Tubby is a great coach and for the most part I like to give him the benefit of the doubt but I don't like it either. That second unit just doesn't produce, we need to mix in the first team guys.

Maybe if Joseph would start playing well we would have someone who can score in that lineup but as it is now I don't think we can keep doing this with much success.

 

[underground629]

Our starters all played almost 30 min against MSU. They work their asses off out there and keep up because of defense. Do you really expect Tubby to play them more than 30?

Come on. Whether he did it at UK or not, isn't the issue. He hasn't got the personel to do it especially against Michigan State. Both Penn State and MSU took advantage of it. This is the Big Ten.
It appears to me that he is trying to work the second team in no matter what. Since when do you take your players out when they are playing well. How is Harfarber going to get hot when he is on the bench.
Let's not blindly fellow this guy because of his past reputation. Let's demand results. They had a to win the game against MSU. But when the first team has to claw back we get results like last night. Tubby was just was out-coached.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Come on. Whether he did it at UK or not, isn't the issue. He hasn't got the personel to do it especially against Michigan State. Both Penn State and MSU took advantage of it. This is the Big Ten.
It appears to me that he is trying to work the second team in no matter what. Since when do you take your players out when they are playing well. How is Harfarber going to get hot when he is on the bench.
Let's not blindly fellow this guy because of his past reputation. Let's demand results. They had a to win the game against MSU. But when the first team has to claw back we get results like last night. Tubby was just was out-coached.

The Gophers are 2 deep at each spot with 11 players who can contribute.

F Johnson, C Sampson, G Hoffarber-Westbrook-Nolen.

F Carter or Williams, C Iverson, G Bostick-Joseph-Cobbs.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Our starters all played almost 30 min against MSU. They work their asses off out there and keep up because of defense. Do you really expect Tubby to play them more than 30?

Good point. I doubt the original poster will grasp it. He/she seems to know more than Tubby does.

 

[caiusov]

Substitution Strategy

Me, know more than Tubby. Hardly.
But I do know basketball. I also know when a coach has an agenda. Like when the staring 5 are not his recruits (exception Sampson). And the second unit are for the most part his.
Tubby knows he is in the NCAA tourney short of a meldown. And that's good for now.
Well if that's the case, as a Gopher fan since the days of Bill Musselman, I feel a little cheated.

We have a top caliber point guard, who by the way can shoot, but seems to be instructed not to. (I've sat 3 rows from the floor). A good shooting guard (who is a little streeky) and a 3-point weapon who needs a better offensive strategy to get open looks.

What does the second 5 have to offer except relief There is a percepituous drop off when they come in.

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

Starters
Name Min Reb Ast PF Pts
L. Westbrook, G 28 5 1 4 15
D. Johnson, F 30 6 2 3 14
A. Nolen, G 28 5 2 2 9
R. Sampson III, F 31 5 2 3 8
B. Hoffarber, G 28 5 1 1 4

Bench
Name Min Reb Ast PF Pts
C. Iverson 9 2 1 3 2
D. Joseph 16 2 2 0 1
J. Cobbs 13 0 1 2 0
P. Carter 10 2 0 3 0
R. Williams 6 0 0 0 0
D. Bostick 1 0 0 0 0
This isn't on here as neatly as I wanted, but I think the original poster can figure it out. (From the MSU game)

 

[NateDawgUM]

NHL teams substitute a whole new line at once.

Oh. My. God. You said that?

What the F does this have to do with hockey? Maybe we should goaltend on every play because they do that in hockey too!!

Go the Purdue board, or better yet, the gym.

 

[Reserve]

We have a top caliber point guard, who by the way can shoot, but seems to be instructed not to.

(I've sat 3 rows from the floor).

Have you sat three rows from the floor at a Gopher's game or the other team you root for?

The entire arena knows Nolen couldn't shoot to save his life. Although, his few three's this year have been damn refreshing.

I sat at the game against Penn State and watched with total amazement as the entire starting line up was pulled and with a 5 point lead.

If I remember correctly Tubby was also pissed off at them.

 

[MRJ]

Me, know more than Tubby. Hardly.
But I do know basketball. I also know when a coach has an agenda. Like when the staring 5 are not his recruits (exception Sampson). And the second unit are for the most part his.
Tubby knows he is in the NCAA tourney short of a meldown. And that's good for now.
Well if that's the case, as a Gopher fan since the days of Bill Musselman, I feel a little cheated.

We have a top caliber point guard, who by the way can shoot, but seems to be instructed not to. (I've sat 3 rows from the floor). A good shooting guard (who is a little streeky) and a 3-point weapon who needs a better offensive strategy to get open looks.

What does the second 5 have to offer except relief There is a percepituous drop off when they come in.

This ranks right up there as one of my favorite Gopher conspiracy theories. This is fantastic stuff. Looking forward to more insight in the future.

 

[Prolific]

Good point. I doubt the original poster will grasp it. He/she seems to know more than Tubby does.

I hate this argument so much. Why even have a message board? SHUT DOWN Gopherhole!!!! Don't question anyone because you're not a coach! Coaches don't do every thing right. We're lucky enough to have one that does 95% of things right, but there is no such thing as a perfect coach.

Should we not question the players when they make a bad play or when they're playing badly? After all they're division one players and we aren't.

What are we supposed to talk about here? Just sit around in a circle and talk about how awesome our team is?

 

[WilliamsArenaGuy]

I hate this argument so much. Why even have a message board? SHUT DOWN Gopherhole!!!! Don't question anyone because you're not a coach! Coaches don't do every thing right. We're lucky enough to have one that does 95% of things right, but there is no such thing as a perfect coach.

Should we not question the players when they make a bad play or when they're playing badly? After all they're division one players and we aren't.

What are we supposed to talk about here? Just sit around in a circle and talk about how awesome our team is?

+ infinity. It's really geting annoying.

 

[jovs]

Maybe someone can tell me what Tubby is thinking. I'm at a loss. I sat at the game against Penn State and watched with total amazement as the entire starting line up was pulled and with a 5 point lead. After a 11 point swing with Penn State up by 6 points he puts the starting 5 back and doesn't get control of the game back until well into the second half.
The same thing at Michigan State. Our guys were playing a superior team with a 6-5 score not even 5 minutes into the game and another whole sale substitution.
Damien Johnson, Al Nolen and Ralph Samson were playing outstanding. Nolen was the hat hand and Ralph was crashing the boards. Is this hockey or basketball. Our guys did not look tired.
What's going on?

There is a reason the intensity on defense is as great as it is from start to finish, substituting. Without the substitution patterns there is no way they could keep that up.